Help me choose: Ricoh GR Digital or Ricoh GRD II

ruce said:

Hi All

I currently use a Fuji X100 & a Ricoh GR1-s for my photography but now want to add a small, compact digital camera I can pocket daily & shoot street stuff with. It would only be jpeg and predominantly B&W, maybe with some color intermittently. Ohh and I only want to spend $200 max.

After a little research & reading, I've decided to go with the original Ricoh GR Digital as I've seen (& read everywhere about) it's B&W images straight out of the camera are nice. What are the disadvantages of this camera tho? Battery life ok? How about focusing? I read about some ADJ dial issue or something...is this wide spread and something I need to be conscious of? Is there anything else i should look out for when buying one of these used?

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ruce said:

I've also just seen a couple GRDII's for sale in my price range so may entertain that also. Is this a better camera? What advantages will i gain from this 'II' model? Sure the B&W jpegs may not be as grainy (noisy) as its predecessor, but is the noise reduction that bad? Is there anything I should look for when shopping for one of these?

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ruce said:

I do know the GRDIII & GRDIV are probably better options then the GRD & GRDII but as mentioned, I only want to spend around $200 MAX.

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ruce said:

Any advice appreciated!

cheers!

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Tom Caldwell said:

ruce said:

Hi All

I currently use a Fuji X100 & a Ricoh GR1-s for my photography but now want to add a small, compact digital camera I can pocket daily & shoot street stuff with. It would only be jpeg and predominantly B&W, maybe with some color intermittently. Ohh and I only want to spend $200 max.

After a little research & reading, I've decided to go with the original Ricoh GR Digital as I've seen (& read everywhere about) it's B&W images straight out of the camera are nice. What are the disadvantages of this camera tho? Battery life ok? How about focusing? I read about some ADJ dial issue or something...is this wide spread and something I need to be conscious of? Is there anything else i should look out for when buying one of these used?

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The GRD is a cult camera - you would be joining the cult and either love it or hate it. It is a mile or so ahead of any other point and shoot of its day. In fact I might wonder just how many GRD cameras are still regarded as viable cameras. I would suggest that the GRD as a percentage of its production much more so than other long forgotten rivals. I still drag my GRD out and use it from time to time and marvel at what it can still do.

Battery life/focusing were/are still useful. The adj dial broke for some but mine still works fine - I have used it enough to give the grip covering some serious wear patina, but it is not worn through. The grips are rubber and can come loose and if not re-affixed with double sided tape can stretch and become unusable. Otherwise they seem to have been a reliable little beast. The battery size is still used in the GR. The batteries don't have a internal restrainting clip and can fall out if the battery door is opened.

Tom Caldwell said:

I've also just seen a couple GRDII's for sale in my price range so may entertain that also. Is this a better camera? What advantages will i gain from this 'II' model? Sure the B&W jpegs may not be as grainy (noisy) as its predecessor, but is the noise reduction that bad? Is there anything I should look for when shopping for one of these?

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Mine is a GRD original and I am surprised that any are selling for less than $200. At that price I should buy a spare, but then I am well and truly in the cult. The GRDII is very similar and had improved the raw file recording time to something more acceptable and (from memory) added some noise suppression to the jpg images which was not appreciated by the GRD-cultists. The camera is well regarded for its grainy b&w jpg captures and that is where the mystery lies.

Tom Caldwell said:

I do know the GRDIII & GRDIV are probably better options then the GRD & GRDII but as mentioned, I only want to spend around $200 MAX.

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If you can get a good one for less than $200 and don't buy it then I might. My GRD will never be for sale.

The GRDIII/IV are completely different cameras in practice and far more sophisticated - raw file capture is actually workable on them. With the GRDIII/IV Ricoh completely re-invented the camera type without throwing away the good bits.

Tom Caldwell said:

Any advice appreciated!

cheers!

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tornwald said:

You can buy a GRD 4 new for about 250 bucks.

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tornwald said:

You can buy a GRD 4 new for about 250 bucks. So used, I gues it can be had for under 200?

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ruce said:

tornwald said:

You can buy a GRD 4 new for about 250 bucks. So used, I gues it can be had for under 200?

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yeh where!? havent seen them for any less then $400'ish.

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Tom Caldwell said:

ruce said:

tornwald said:

You can buy a GRD 4 new for about 250 bucks. So used, I gues it can be had for under 200?

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yeh where!? havent seen them for any less then $400'ish.

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They were cheap for "5 minutes" whilst Ricoh was cleaning out the warehouses after the GR was released but those that are selling them now know how much they are really worth.

My guess is that good ones will keep appreciating in value as the worth of a high perfomance extremely well built compact camera is realised. When we talk compact cameras even millimetres make a difference and when it comes to millimetres the GRDIII/IV is significantly smaller and is no performance slouch. In fact quite argably the GRDIV is technically more advanced than the GR. Ricoh seem to have shoe-horned the best of what they could do at the time into the GRDIV body.

I like my GR but if I was forced to keep one or the other than after a small mental breakdown it might just favour the GRDIV. Luckily I have both and and can keep them and have the GRDIII as a knockabout backup.

Oh, I forgot the GRD, which is quite a different camera and always a joy to pull out and re-use again.

There is perhaps too much emphasis on absolute image quality and I can still enjoy what the GRD might be capable of doing even if by camera standards it is "out of the ark" both in its very simple inteface and its grainy black and whites. In fact when the GRD is used I often wonder if the noise suppression racket that was made so many years ago and is still a roar from the distance was completely misguided as the GRD made "grain" into an art form - must get the little devil out and give it another hug.

Ricoh's philosophy on noise back then seemed to be: if you can't beat it then relax and enjoy the experience.

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ruce said:

i was curious tho why the GRDII seems like the "black sheep" of the GRD family. In my research I only seem to see articles, reviews, praise etc for 3 models:

- GRD, and it's film like grain (noise)
- GRDIII, and it's great IQ and redesign from the GRD/GRD2
- GRD IV, being the best of that series

I hardly see anything written about the GRDII apart from it maybe applies too much NR & that it writes RAW files faster then the original

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Tom Caldwell said:

They were cheap for "5 minutes" whilst Ricoh was cleaning out the warehouses after the GR was released but those that are selling them now know how much they are really worth.

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ruce said:

i was curious tho why the GRDII seems like the "black sheep" of the GRD family. In my research I only seem to see articles, reviews, praise etc for 3 models:

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rondom said:

Tom Caldwell said:

They were cheap for "5 minutes" whilst Ricoh was cleaning out the warehouses after the GR was released but those that are selling them now know how much they are really worth.

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to me, this doesn't say anything about the camera's value, but the fanboys losing it altogether...

(in case the link doesn't work, $958 for a new grd4, a camera with a five year old sensor.)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B005MOWRXM/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

maybe ricoh should reconsider a small sensor GRD.

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tornwald said:

I just checked. Ricoh GRD 4 is now 270 bucks. Not as cheap as before, but still..
The new GR is 400 bucks.

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ruce said:

Tom Caldwell said:

ruce said:

tornwald said:

You can buy a GRD 4 new for about 250 bucks. So used, I gues it can be had for under 200?

Click to expand...

yeh where!? havent seen them for any less then $400'ish.

Click to expand...

They were cheap for "5 minutes" whilst Ricoh was cleaning out the warehouses after the GR was released but those that are selling them now know how much they are really worth.

My guess is that good ones will keep appreciating in value as the worth of a high perfomance extremely well built compact camera is realised. When we talk compact cameras even millimetres make a difference and when it comes to millimetres the GRDIII/IV is significantly smaller and is no performance slouch. In fact quite argably the GRDIV is technically more advanced than the GR. Ricoh seem to have shoe-horned the best of what they could do at the time into the GRDIV body.

I like my GR but if I was forced to keep one or the other than after a small mental breakdown it might just favour the GRDIV. Luckily I have both and and can keep them and have the GRDIII as a knockabout backup.

Oh, I forgot the GRD, which is quite a different camera and always a joy to pull out and re-use again.

There is perhaps too much emphasis on absolute image quality and I can still enjoy what the GRD might be capable of doing even if by camera standards it is "out of the ark" both in its very simple inteface and its grainy black and whites. In fact when the GRD is used I often wonder if the noise suppression racket that was made so many years ago and is still a roar from the distance was completely misguided as the GRD made "grain" into an art form - must get the little devil out and give it another hug.

Ricoh's philosophy on noise back then seemed to be: if you can't beat it then relax and enjoy the experience.

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rondom said:

tornwald said:

I just checked. Ricoh GRD 4 is now 270 bucks. Not as cheap as before, but still..
The new GR is 400 bucks.

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where please? Can you provide a link?

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SphericalAberration said:

ruce said:

i was curious tho why the GRDII seems like the "black sheep" of the GRD family. In my research I only seem to see articles, reviews, praise etc for 3 models:

- GRD, and it's film like grain (noise)
- GRDIII, and it's great IQ and redesign from the GRD/GRD2
- GRD IV, being the best of that series

I hardly see anything written about the GRDII apart from it maybe applies too much NR & that it writes RAW files faster then the original

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I've owned over time all the GR digitals and GR1,1s.

The II was a vast improvement speed wise over the I , but the dynamic range and in particular shadow noise in the II , falls far beind the III and IV.

The IV with it's in body Image stabilization really is the pinicle of 1/1.7" sensor camera evolution.

The GR APS-C camera is technically better and holds its own against full sized DSLRs , but I cannot bring myself to sell the IV ; it just handles so well.

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timtop said:

timtop said:

i was curious tho why the GRDII seems like the "black sheep" of the GRD family. In my research I only seem to see articles, reviews, praise etc for 3 models:

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the II was seen as a step back by most (or at least by those that shot bw jpeg with the GRD, like myself). The rendering was plain weird, flat, and the grain not the same. They clawed some of this back with the III but in my views the III and IV are too clean and digital looking most of the time. I still use my I in tandem with the newer but totally different V.

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