Would a PRIME lens give me better exposure with my XE1?

mistermejia

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I have a wedding shower coming up in a couple days, and I still need some help in mastering the XE1. Yes, I am asking for help, that's all, and i would appreciate any constructive advice.

I am trying to learn how to control highlights not blowing up so much, it is very difficult for me with the XE1, and it doesn't matter how i set the camera, the highlights and shadows are just not balanced.

I took my XE1 and my S5 a couple minutes ago. I did nothing fancy, just a quick comparison between the XE1 and my S5. Again, it doesn't matter how i set the XE1, auto or manual(I manually adjust aperture), changing metering modes, adjusting exposure, ISO, dynamic range, etc. etc. the XE1 just won't do it right.

BUT, i just thought about something, is it possible that a change of lens would make a big difference? Look at the two photos below. Both were shot in shutter priority and i let the cameras do the rest. Since i don't have a zoom on my S5 but the 1.8 35mm is hard for me to compare what the S5 would do with a zoom 2.8, but based on what i am seeing, the S5 would probably pick the 2.8 aperture in this situations.

No matter what i do, the XE1 just gets the exposure way too dark on my subject with a nicer looking background, or it goes to the extremes, it exposes my subject properly, but it blows up the highlights on the background.

Now my question is, if i had a prime lens on the XE1, would i get better results or would the camera still pick very low apertures? The S5 just gives me a much more balanced and pleasing image over all. Would the XE1 behave differently with a prime on it for better results than what i am getting with the 18-55 zoom?

These are all jpegs, and yes, i can shoot raw, but i go out a lot and i need to post these jpeg photos in facebook. What can i say, this is my life style plus i just love the wonderful jpegs, but those darn blown highlights are just killing me :-)

I would appreciate your help with this, but if you are annoyed by this type of questions and don't want to participate i completely understand.

Thank you.





 

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The poor results of these images are directly related to your choice of settings; there is nothing wrong with your camera.
This pretty much sums it up. I honestly cannot tell if the OP is really as clueless regarding the operation of his camera(s) as he appears to be or is just jerking everyone's chain.

Kurt
 
To my eyes, your first X-E1 photo and the S5 Pro photo are not that far off. My suggestion is to set the ISO on the X-E1 to 200 or 400 (you have it at 6400, way too high!) and then try to underexpose by 1/3 or 2/3 stops. You can afford to shoot at far slower speeds than the 1/500 that you ended up at. Does any of this make sense?
Yes, the first shot i set the camera to shutter priority and that's what the camera picked. And yes, is closer to the S5 but not exactly.
Wrong. You did not use shutter priority for the first shot; you used manual mode. By setting both a small aperture (f8) and a fast shutter speed (1/500), you forced the camera to use a high ISO (6400) in order to expose the scene. Each step up the ISO scale provides less dynamic range. In the second shot you used -1 exposure compensation which resulted in a darker image.
Ummm, that's strange, i'll double check. I did take a bunch other photos which i still have in my pc, maybe this one was the manual one, and i don't recall setting it manually at iso 6400. Oh well, i might have confused them.

Either way, i did try them in different isos, metering, and different apertures, and the results are just too similar, either too dark or too blown out in the background.
You have severely handicapped the X-E1 in this comparison to your S5 by your own poor choice of settings. Comparing ISO6400 of one camera to ISO200 of another camera is just ridiculous. How hard is it to set both cameras to the same aperture, SS and ISO? Your OP is asking the wrong question. Instead of theorizing and asking about a prime lens, you should simply ask "What am I doing wrong?".

The poor results of these images are directly related to your choice of settings; there is nothing wrong with your camera.
Yeah, i've heard this before. Anyway, my original question has been answered already and there is no need to keep talking about this. I'll just stay away from shooting in this type of contrasty scenes.

Thank you for your input.
 
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This is certainly an issue on JPEGs from the XE2 which are even more contrasty, so I generally use a custom picture mode with the following settings:

1. Set film type to one with lower contrast (Pro Neg Std or Astia).

2. Highlight tone -2 (this will reduce the blowout of highlights by the tone curve applied by the camera

3. Shadow tone -2 (this will do the same for the shadows).

Note, I don't bother with DR controls, but you can set them to Auto. Just remember that the real max DR of the camera occurs at ISO200 where DR = 100 anyway. Higher DR settings keep the highlight tone where you would have it on ISO200, but overexpose the shadows and raise the ISO - which also makes them a bit noisy.

You would not want this setting for regular shots so custom 2 is what I would use for regular shots, which is closer to the default.

Although I normally process RAW files, this gives a much improved tone for high contrast images with lots of back-lighting and actually make the viewfinder giver a closer impression of the real exposure.

Please note, when using a shallower DOF, the overexposure of the background looks less obvious because it blends in with other far details, it looks a lot worse with a sharper background. This is why the sky doesn't look overexposed in the S5 shot.

Finally, don't rely on the camera, rely on your eyes. For stationary subjects use aperture priority to control the DOF, speed is less of an issue (just make sure it doesn't go too low). Customise the EVF display to show the histogram, and make sure the highlights are not blown out. Check this visually as well.

No auto-metering mode will know what you want to meter for in a complex scene and will assume its the object nearest the focus point. I generally find I have to use -ve EV on backlit subjects and +ve EV on well lit ones.

Also note: the lens will not alter the exposure or DR, but it may give you better colour and less flare.
 
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Set both Shadow Tone and Highlight Tone to -2.
 
This is certainly an issue on JPEGs from the XE2 which are even more contrasty, so I generally use a custom picture mode with the following settings:

1. Set film type to one with lower contrast (Pro Neg Std or Astia).

2. Highlight tone -2 (this will reduce the blowout of highlights by the tone curve applied by the camera

3. Shadow tone -2 (this will do the same for the shadows).

Note, I don't bother with DR controls, but you can set them to Auto. Just remember that the real max DR of the camera occurs at ISO200 where DR = 100 anyway. Higher DR settings keep the highlight tone where you would have it on ISO200, but overexpose the shadows and raise the ISO - which also makes them a bit noisy.

You would not want this setting for regular shots so custom 2 is what I would use for regular shots, which is closer to the default.

Although I normally process RAW files, this gives a much improved tone for high contrast images with lots of back-lighting and actually make the viewfinder giver a closer impression of the real exposure.

Please note, when using a shallower DOF, the overexposure of the background looks less obvious because it blends in with other far details, it looks a lot worse with a sharper background. This is why the sky doesn't look overexposed in the S5 shot.

Finally, don't rely on the camera, rely on your eyes. For stationary subjects use aperture priority to control the DOF, speed is less of an issue (just make sure it doesn't go too low). Customise the EVF display to show the histogram, and make sure the highlights are not blown out. Check this visually as well.

No auto-metering mode will know what you want to meter for in a complex scene and will assume its the object nearest the focus point. I generally find I have to use -ve EV on backlit subjects and +ve EV on well lit ones.

Also note: the lens will not alter the exposure or DR, but it may give you better colour and less flare.
I didn't see your post before making mine.

I do it the same way. Using Shadow Tone and Highlight Tone is simply a way to make the JPEG processing take more advantage of the dynamic range available in RAW.
 
This is certainly an issue on JPEGs from the XE2 which are even more contrasty, so I generally use a custom picture mode with the following settings:

1. Set film type to one with lower contrast (Pro Neg Std or Astia).

2. Highlight tone -2 (this will reduce the blowout of highlights by the tone curve applied by the camera

3. Shadow tone -2 (this will do the same for the shadows).

Note, I don't bother with DR controls, but you can set them to Auto. Just remember that the real max DR of the camera occurs at ISO200 where DR = 100 anyway. Higher DR settings keep the highlight tone where you would have it on ISO200, but overexpose the shadows and raise the ISO - which also makes them a bit noisy.

You would not want this setting for regular shots so custom 2 is what I would use for regular shots, which is closer to the default.

Although I normally process RAW files, this gives a much improved tone for high contrast images with lots of back-lighting and actually make the viewfinder giver a closer impression of the real exposure.

Please note, when using a shallower DOF, the overexposure of the background looks less obvious because it blends in with other far details, it looks a lot worse with a sharper background. This is why the sky doesn't look overexposed in the S5 shot.

Finally, don't rely on the camera, rely on your eyes. For stationary subjects use aperture priority to control the DOF, speed is less of an issue (just make sure it doesn't go too low). Customise the EVF display to show the histogram, and make sure the highlights are not blown out. Check this visually as well.

No auto-metering mode will know what you want to meter for in a complex scene and will assume its the object nearest the focus point. I generally find I have to use -ve EV on backlit subjects and +ve EV on well lit ones.

Also note: the lens will not alter the exposure or DR, but it may give you better colour and less flare.
Yes thank you 57even, that's how i have it set up. Just took these photos during my break.

The first photo is the standard DR100. The second set to DR400 and i do see the difference. I set both to Spot Metering because that is exactly how the tree looks like, if i use a different metering it gets too dark. Not bad at all.

Now my question is why is the camera picking such a low aperture, f13, is it because it is in DR400? In the second photo it looks like i would have to increase the shadows just a bit instead of lowering it?

Interesting that you mentioned flare, because lately i have been noticing that the 18-55 has a lot of it. But we'll discuss that later. Might be time to buy a different lens.



 

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what I can see:

shot 1. this shot has some solar flare (left hand side of plant pot) and is slightly overexposed. Your ISO is unnecessarily high. You should be able to hand-hold as low as 1/50 sec at 35mm focal length.

shot 2. you have metered for the background so you foreground is underexposed.
I already did that, that's what the two samples from the XE1 are showing. If i meter for the pot i will get the opposite effect, the background will be super blown out.
shot 3. your foreground is slightly underexposed (fixable in post production). The sky has blow hightlights like your first shot. This is to be expected because your subject is in shadow. Also, it's part of the out of focus area, so it's not distracting.
Is not distracting because the S5 itself is doing that, easily. Is not so much because the background is not in focus. Based on responses, if i was to put a fuji 35mm and shoot at that same aperture, i am going to suspect that the results will be worse and the background would look even more blown out with a higher aperture. From what i am learning so far, it is just the camera's limitation. This metering system in the XE1 definitely can be improved, no doubt, specially for a camera that is 8 years newer.
Sure maybe it is a difference between the camera's. The S5pro had a Fuji manufactured superCCD sensor whereas the x-cams have a sony CMOS sensor with a fuji designed CFA on top. From my limited understanding, CCD sensors always gave better dynamic range and low noise performance but were limited in a lot of other ways (eg how quickly the processor could read the info, higher power requirement, more expensive to manufacture) which is why most manufacturers have moved to CMOS sensors
Try repeating the first shot at iso 200 (ie like the second shot but meter off the plant pot and not the background).
Again, that's what i did already. The second shot is at iso 200 with a higher aperture. THAT is the best and more balanced shot i can get, without processing it or course. Yes, if i edit it that is not the problem, not at all, specially if i shoot in RAW. Editing is not an issue.
I'm a little confused by your statement. If you mean you've already done that with the first shot then clearly you haven't since it's at iso6400. If you mean that you tried that with the second shot then I'm not sure what happened because when I do similar shots with my x-e1, the subject I'm metering on would be well exposed and not severely underexposed as your shot seems to be. The only thing I can think of is that if you're using spot metering it only does this with the center point regardless of which focus box you've selected. If you're going to use spot metering then it's best used with half press focus recompose method with the center focus box or in combination with the exposure lock button at the back. If you have a correctly exposed photo (of the pot) at iso200 with the x-e1, could you post it please so that we can compare it with the S5pro photo. Thanks
hope this helps
Thank you for your help.
I generally try to avoid situations with strong back-light unless that's the look I'm going for. Where possible, I move my position to avoid it. My experience is only with camera's with cmos sensors (Canon and now Fuji) so I don't know if this is a cmos vs ccd issue. Perhaps someone who has owned both S5pro and x-cameras can weigh in on the discussion to clarify.
 
I have a wedding shower coming up in a couple days, and I still need some help in mastering the XE1. Yes, I am asking for help, that's all, and i would appreciate any constructive advice.

I am trying to learn how to control highlights not blowing up so much, it is very difficult for me with the XE1, and it doesn't matter how i set the camera, the highlights and shadows are just not balanced.

I took my XE1 and my S5 a couple minutes ago. I did nothing fancy, just a quick comparison between the XE1 and my S5. Again, it doesn't matter how i set the XE1, auto or manual(I manually adjust aperture), changing metering modes, adjusting exposure, ISO, dynamic range, etc. etc. the XE1 just won't do it right.

BUT, i just thought about something, is it possible that a change of lens would make a big difference? Look at the two photos below. Both were shot in shutter priority and i let the cameras do the rest. Since i don't have a zoom on my S5 but the 1.8 35mm is hard for me to compare what the S5 would do with a zoom 2.8, but based on what i am seeing, the S5 would probably pick the 2.8 aperture in this situations.

No matter what i do, the XE1 just gets the exposure way too dark on my subject with a nicer looking background, or it goes to the extremes, it exposes my subject properly, but it blows up the highlights on the background.

Now my question is, if i had a prime lens on the XE1, would i get better results or would the camera still pick very low apertures? The S5 just gives me a much more balanced and pleasing image over all. Would the XE1 behave differently with a prime on it for better results than what i am getting with the 18-55 zoom?

These are all jpegs, and yes, i can shoot raw, but i go out a lot and i need to post these jpeg photos in facebook. What can i say, this is my life style plus i just love the wonderful jpegs, but those darn blown highlights are just killing me :-)

I would appreciate your help with this, but if you are annoyed by this type of questions and don't want to participate i completely understand.

Thank you.





There is nothing wrong with the camera, there is nothing wrong with the exposure, the camera exposed it exactly where you were pointing to. The problem is the scene is wrong. You are shooting into the light. It is a HDR scene, with Bright Light and Shadows. So to do it correctly, you need to shoot a bracketed scene, and pp for hdr.

The third picture is perfectly exposed for the shadows, as the big pot in the middle is exposed and also in focus, the other shadow parts are out of focus, but properly exposed. This has 1/250 s 200 iso F2.2, this apparently is ok for the shadows. Now if I expose 4-5 stops higher, I would be properly exposed for the bright areas which would be 1/250 1/200 F 11 ... F16, which is in line with the sunny F16 rule, but this setting, which is perfect for the bright areas, would severely underexpose the shadows, but some of it can be recovered in pp, or hdr bracketing.

I hope, you are not shooting your Wedding shower under these sort of lighting conditions :(. They are the toughest to shoot.

One way, is to shoot with your back to the light.

Another way, shoot 90 degrees to the light, that is, side lit subject.

You can never win shooting against the light, always think ahead and use the light in your favor.

35/50 F1.8 are great value for the money, and have many advantages. But you need to know how to shoot first with what you have.
 
This is certainly an issue on JPEGs from the XE2 which are even more contrasty, so I generally use a custom picture mode with the following settings:

1. Set film type to one with lower contrast (Pro Neg Std or Astia).

2. Highlight tone -2 (this will reduce the blowout of highlights by the tone curve applied by the camera

3. Shadow tone -2 (this will do the same for the shadows).

Note, I don't bother with DR controls, but you can set them to Auto. Just remember that the real max DR of the camera occurs at ISO200 where DR = 100 anyway. Higher DR settings keep the highlight tone where you would have it on ISO200, but overexpose the shadows and raise the ISO - which also makes them a bit noisy.

You would not want this setting for regular shots so custom 2 is what I would use for regular shots, which is closer to the default.

Although I normally process RAW files, this gives a much improved tone for high contrast images with lots of back-lighting and actually make the viewfinder giver a closer impression of the real exposure.

Please note, when using a shallower DOF, the overexposure of the background looks less obvious because it blends in with other far details, it looks a lot worse with a sharper background. This is why the sky doesn't look overexposed in the S5 shot.

Finally, don't rely on the camera, rely on your eyes. For stationary subjects use aperture priority to control the DOF, speed is less of an issue (just make sure it doesn't go too low). Customise the EVF display to show the histogram, and make sure the highlights are not blown out. Check this visually as well.

No auto-metering mode will know what you want to meter for in a complex scene and will assume its the object nearest the focus point. I generally find I have to use -ve EV on backlit subjects and +ve EV on well lit ones.

Also note: the lens will not alter the exposure or DR, but it may give you better colour and less flare.
Yes thank you 57even, that's how i have it set up. Just took these photos during my break.

The first photo is the standard DR100. The second set to DR400 and i do see the difference. I set both to Spot Metering because that is exactly how the tree looks like, if i use a different metering it gets too dark. Not bad at all.

Now my question is why is the camera picking such a low aperture, f13, is it because it is in DR400? In the second photo it looks like i would have to increase the shadows just a bit instead of lowering it?

Interesting that you mentioned flare, because lately i have been noticing that the 18-55 has a lot of it. But we'll discuss that later. Might be time to buy a different lens.



Shoot in aperture priority mode, you don't need speed control on static objects.

The second shot looks quite artificial. Just add -1 EV for the first shot. The foreground will still look fine.

This is why I never use DR compensation.
 
This is certainly an issue on JPEGs from the XE2 which are even more contrasty, so I generally use a custom picture mode with the following settings:

1. Set film type to one with lower contrast (Pro Neg Std or Astia).

2. Highlight tone -2 (this will reduce the blowout of highlights by the tone curve applied by the camera

3. Shadow tone -2 (this will do the same for the shadows).

Note, I don't bother with DR controls, but you can set them to Auto. Just remember that the real max DR of the camera occurs at ISO200 where DR = 100 anyway. Higher DR settings keep the highlight tone where you would have it on ISO200, but overexpose the shadows and raise the ISO - which also makes them a bit noisy.

You would not want this setting for regular shots so custom 2 is what I would use for regular shots, which is closer to the default.

Although I normally process RAW files, this gives a much improved tone for high contrast images with lots of back-lighting and actually make the viewfinder giver a closer impression of the real exposure.

Please note, when using a shallower DOF, the overexposure of the background looks less obvious because it blends in with other far details, it looks a lot worse with a sharper background. This is why the sky doesn't look overexposed in the S5 shot.

Finally, don't rely on the camera, rely on your eyes. For stationary subjects use aperture priority to control the DOF, speed is less of an issue (just make sure it doesn't go too low). Customise the EVF display to show the histogram, and make sure the highlights are not blown out. Check this visually as well.

No auto-metering mode will know what you want to meter for in a complex scene and will assume its the object nearest the focus point. I generally find I have to use -ve EV on backlit subjects and +ve EV on well lit ones.

Also note: the lens will not alter the exposure or DR, but it may give you better colour and less flare.
Yes thank you 57even, that's how i have it set up. Just took these photos during my break.

The first photo is the standard DR100. The second set to DR400 and i do see the difference. I set both to Spot Metering because that is exactly how the tree looks like, if i use a different metering it gets too dark. Not bad at all.

Now my question is why is the camera picking such a low aperture, f13, is it because it is in DR400? In the second photo it looks like i would have to increase the shadows just a bit instead of lowering it?

Interesting that you mentioned flare, because lately i have been noticing that the 18-55 has a lot of it. But we'll discuss that later. Might be time to buy a different lens.



Shoot in aperture priority mode, you don't need speed control on static objects.
I will try aperture P.
The second shot looks quite artificial. Just add -1 EV for the first shot. The foreground will still look fine.

This is why I never use DR compensation.
What do you mean, you don't like DR400 because it looks "artificial"?

Thank you.
 
-1 EV compensation will preserve more of the upper sky, but the sun will still be blown in the centre of the image. Besides which, he's said in his post that he wants the tree to be exposed correctly.

The reality for high key scenes like this is that you have to accept that you have three basic options: high DR resulting in lower mid-tone contrast; high contrast but with crushed shadows and blown highlights, or a heavy amount of post-processing to extract maximum DR and preserve mid-tones but with the inevitable HDR halo look.

This is just something you have to accept with current digital sensors, unless you shoot medium format or film. The best approach anyone can take is to understand the limitation and work around it, rather than trying to approach a high key scene with the expectation of getting a technically perfect shot. The OP's third photo from his original set shows an example of this: the blur from the lens at f/2.2 softens the transition between the blown sunlight and the leaves around the tress, so it looks more artistic and not unnatural like his first photo.

The best thing you can do is to go into the shot knowing that you have limitations and shooting with them in mind. If you are keen to preserve mid-tones you can deliberately keep the sky out of the frame, or you if you want to capture the light you can let other parts of the composition go to black and let them act as a frame for the eye.
 
The OP's third photo from his original set shows an example of this: the blur from the lens at f/2.2 softens the transition between the blown sunlight and the leaves around the tress, so it looks more artistic and not unnatural like his first photo.
the OP's third photo was taken with a different camera (S5pro) and I think he's trying to work out how to match the output with his x-e1. The OP hasn't shown any photos with the x-e1 that match the camera settings from the s5pro photo so it's hard to judge if this is a camera limitations problem or a user limitations problem. In any case, the OP is experimenting with different functions to sort it out.

There are many methods we can use to get a good shot. The best photographers are the best at problem solving. Working out the limitations of the camera and their own limitations. My usual method of dealing with high dynamic situations is to avoid them (changing position) so this thread has been quite thought provoking at the different methods people use to overcome the problem.
 
This is certainly an issue on JPEGs from the XE2 which are even more contrasty, so I generally use a custom picture mode with the following settings:

1. Set film type to one with lower contrast (Pro Neg Std or Astia).

2. Highlight tone -2 (this will reduce the blowout of highlights by the tone curve applied by the camera

3. Shadow tone -2 (this will do the same for the shadows).

Note, I don't bother with DR controls, but you can set them to Auto. Just remember that the real max DR of the camera occurs at ISO200 where DR = 100 anyway. Higher DR settings keep the highlight tone where you would have it on ISO200, but overexpose the shadows and raise the ISO - which also makes them a bit noisy.

You would not want this setting for regular shots so custom 2 is what I would use for regular shots, which is closer to the default.

Although I normally process RAW files, this gives a much improved tone for high contrast images with lots of back-lighting and actually make the viewfinder giver a closer impression of the real exposure.

Please note, when using a shallower DOF, the overexposure of the background looks less obvious because it blends in with other far details, it looks a lot worse with a sharper background. This is why the sky doesn't look overexposed in the S5 shot.

Finally, don't rely on the camera, rely on your eyes. For stationary subjects use aperture priority to control the DOF, speed is less of an issue (just make sure it doesn't go too low). Customise the EVF display to show the histogram, and make sure the highlights are not blown out. Check this visually as well.

No auto-metering mode will know what you want to meter for in a complex scene and will assume its the object nearest the focus point. I generally find I have to use -ve EV on backlit subjects and +ve EV on well lit ones.

Also note: the lens will not alter the exposure or DR, but it may give you better colour and less flare.
Yes thank you 57even, that's how i have it set up. Just took these photos during my break.

The first photo is the standard DR100. The second set to DR400 and i do see the difference. I set both to Spot Metering because that is exactly how the tree looks like, if i use a different metering it gets too dark. Not bad at all.

Now my question is why is the camera picking such a low aperture, f13, is it because it is in DR400? In the second photo it looks like i would have to increase the shadows just a bit instead of lowering it?

Interesting that you mentioned flare, because lately i have been noticing that the 18-55 has a lot of it. But we'll discuss that later. Might be time to buy a different lens.



Shoot in aperture priority mode, you don't need speed control on static objects.
I will try aperture P.
The second shot looks quite artificial. Just add -1 EV for the first shot. The foreground will still look fine.

This is why I never use DR compensation.
What do you mean, you don't like DR400 because it looks "artificial"?

Thank you.
It raises the ISO and effectively flattens the tone curve by underexposing and then boosting the shadows. Bumping ISO to 800 has less real DR anyway, so the end result looks pretty flat and the sky colour looks fake.

There is always a limit to what you can do in camera anyway. But even a JPEG can be hugely improved in LR. Just make sure you don't blow the highlights - no going back.
 
What this will do is underexpose if the highlights will clip and then adjust the levels before converting the raw data to JPEG. It actually works pretty good.
 
+1 Give it a go.
 
The poor results of these images are directly related to your choice of settings; there is nothing wrong with your camera.
This pretty much sums it up. I honestly cannot tell if the OP is really as clueless regarding the operation of his camera(s) as he appears to be or is just jerking everyone's chain.
Since so many people have completely ignored the DR/dynamic-range settings in their recommendations, cluelessness seems to be the order of the day.

It's not an exposure problem so much as a DR problem.

The fact is that the S5 has about two stops of extra highlight DR that is giving the nice pic, and which can only be replicated with the XE via RAW or the DR modes. The OP probably needs DR400% from the Q menu, with Auto ISO to make sure it can get that.

I'm really quite shocked at the lack of knowledge and use of the DR modes. They are invaluable and help avoid the business of RAW pp.
 

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