Do some former Pentax lens designers now work for Tamron?

Petroglyph

Veteran Member
Messages
6,096
Solutions
9
Reaction score
1,384
Does anyone know anything about the rumour that when Ricoh took over the Pantax brand, some of the top lens designers for Pentax went to work for Tamron? I was wondering if this could explain why Tamron doesn't offer anything new in K-mount any more? Or is it totally rumour & nothing to it.

Cheers.
 
Does anyone know anything about the rumour that when Ricoh took over the Pantax brand, some of the top lens designers for Pentax went to work for Tamron? I was wondering if this could explain why Tamron doesn't offer anything new in K-mount any more? Or is it totally rumour & nothing to it.

Cheers.
If they hired Pentax lens designers, wouldn't the opposite be true? But more to the point, with the amount of new lenses Pentax comes out with, are you sure Pentax even had any lens designers to lose to Tamron?
 
Does anyone know anything about the rumour that when Ricoh took over the Pantax brand, some of the top lens designers for Pentax went to work for Tamron? I was wondering if this could explain why Tamron doesn't offer anything new in K-mount any more? Or is it totally rumour & nothing to it.

Cheers.
It was when Hoya took over and put Pentax up for sale at least 1 top lens designer got the boot and is not working for Tamron, at least the new Tamron 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 lenses are apparently attributed to this lens designer.
 
Does anyone know anything about the rumour that when Ricoh took over the Pantax brand, some of the top lens designers for Pentax went to work for Tamron? I was wondering if this could explain why Tamron doesn't offer anything new in K-mount any more? Or is it totally rumour & nothing to it.

Cheers.
It was when Hoya took over and put Pentax up for sale at least 1 top lens designer got the boot and is not working for Tamron, at least the new Tamron 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 lenses are apparently attributed to this lens designer.
That is what I thought it was. The new Tamron 24-70/2.8 is a real contender to hear what owners of it say. Now that's a shame for Pentax. I wonder how much computer and how much individual skill is involved with designing a top lens these days?
--
Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/[email protected]&thumbnails=
 
Does anyone know anything about the rumour that when Ricoh took over the Pantax brand, some of the top lens designers for Pentax went to work for Tamron? I was wondering if this could explain why Tamron doesn't offer anything new in K-mount any more? Or is it totally rumour & nothing to it.

Cheers.
If they hired Pentax lens designers, wouldn't the opposite be true?
Not if they are angry about getting the "boot".
But more to the point, with the amount of new lenses Pentax comes out with, are you sure Pentax even had any lens designers to lose to Tamron?
Well, that's a good question. Could the prototypes that are being produced not be what management are expecting/hoping quality wise? So a lot of back to the drawing board (computer CAD program)?
 
Does it really matter?

I imagine a few lens designers won't make a significant difference. Sigma, Tokina, Tamron, Canon, Pentax, Nikon have been in the lens business for how long? 60 years maybe? There is a lot of optical knowledge around and from the optical perspective the increments in design and innovation are spare between years once the basic foundations have been created.

Now the game is called electronics, CAD/CAM, plastics and hard materials for lens bodies, micro motors, software, and glass cutting. All these factor fall under an umbrella called competitive strategy and execution.

Look at the Sigma Art series. Those lenses have taken at least 5 years in design and manufacturing preparation before bringing them to market. Then, it is not like if Ricoh gave the designers away to the competition. Same for Tamron, they have been improving a lot as of the last 5 or 6 years.

Now wait for Yongnuo to bring to market the lenses built and designed in China. I understand there is a 50mm 1.4 in the pipe line and probably a lot more coming. If we follow Yongnuo's playbook in flash design and manufacturing, interesting things will happen when they will commence mass manufacturing of all kind of lenses.

Are we going to ask in 5 years from now if Ricoh lost some designers to Yongnuo or Samyang?
 
Does it really matter?
Yes, it does. If I do remember the circumstances correctly the 17-70mm lens was designed as a students work (maybe a thesis). Pentax lost their know how regarding lens design. You can easily recognize it if you look at the number of new Pentax lenses that came out the last 5 years.

60 years of experience is nice - but this experience gets lost very qucikly if the head with the ideas and concepts within do not work for the company anymore.

Of yourse they simply could take their old designs and birgn them out as new lenses - but things are not so easy. There are certain needs lenses have to fullfill these days. Not every lens is good for an AF system. Some have problems with sensor reflection. The light should hit the seonsor in a different way than it was possible on film. For APS-C cameras other focal length are of interest than for FF cameras. There are new glas and plastics materials available with new options and new problems.

Thus, we can conclude that the experience of a lens company that did not keep its experience alive while updating it to the new tasks and options is worth nothing.

We have a couple of well desinged Pentax lenses - and I own almost none of them (like many others) which are still build and available. They are a good foundation for a system - but if Pentax/Ricoh does not invest in search and development - they will hardly keep their systems at the market.
I imagine a few lens designers won't make a significant difference. Sigma, Tokina, Tamron, Canon, Pentax, Nikon have been in the lens business for how long? 60 years maybe? There is a lot of optical knowledge around and from the optical perspective the increments in design and innovation are spare between years once the basic foundations have been created.

Now the game is called electronics, CAD/CAM, plastics and hard materials for lens bodies, micro motors, software, and glass cutting. All these factor fall under an umbrella called competitive strategy and execution.

Look at the Sigma Art series. Those lenses have taken at least 5 years in design and manufacturing preparation before bringing them to market. Then, it is not like if Ricoh gave the designers away to the competition. Same for Tamron, they have been improving a lot as of the last 5 or 6 years.

Now wait for Yongnuo to bring to market the lenses built and designed in China. I understand there is a 50mm 1.4 in the pipe line and probably a lot more coming. If we follow Yongnuo's playbook in flash design and manufacturing, interesting things will happen when they will commence mass manufacturing of all kind of lenses.

Are we going to ask in 5 years from now if Ricoh lost some designers to Yongnuo or Samyang?
 
Does anyone know anything about the rumour that when Ricoh took over the Pantax brand, some of the top lens designers for Pentax went to work for Tamron? I was wondering if this could explain why Tamron doesn't offer anything new in K-mount any more? Or is it totally rumour & nothing to it.
I do not think lens designers decide what mount that shall be supported. It sounds like marketing or product management.

Not supporting Pentax I assume is a reasonable decision. Pentax is not all that big.
 
Last edited:
That is pretty much the reason. And since Pentax doesn't sell any FF cameras they likely make the decision that putting Pentax mounts on their existing FF designs, like the 24-70/2.8 and the 70-200/2.8 is a waste of current capacity based on potential sales. Even though you can use them on APS-C the focal length range is not a good range based on previous film camera experience, which is what they still base designs on even it it might be considered dated. Remember the average camera buyers buys only 2 lenses during their lifetime and I am positive there are sales demographics that can tell them how much of a market is left to fill after sometime buys a 2 lens kit.

APS-C cameras usually have 2 lens kits available to buy where as FF cameras usually only come with 1 lens. Tokina won't sell a lens mount unless the lens has a potential to sell 1 million copies in that mount. That is one reason while Hoya owned Pentax that in design collaborations Pentax badged all the ones for their cameras while Tokina got all the other mounts. Tokina would not have done a Pentax mount on their own, with the possible exception of super zooms. In those cases Pentax went to Tamron to get them made even before that.

Sigma is pretty much the only company that sticks with Pentax most of the time (not always).

Kent Gittings
 
My first thought was to check for the designer of the Limiteds, Jun Hirakawa. 37 patents at Pentax (including the other company names that basically are Pentax.) But no patents after 2009 anywhere, at least at the website I checked.

http://www.plainsite.org/flashlight/hirakawa-jun/

There is an entry on the Ricehigh blog with a copy of some Japanese text of a patent with Jun Hirakawa and Tamron together. But I do not read Japanese so I can not comment intelligently on that.
 
Last edited:
Surely it does matter. I'm sure anyone in any field can tell you that having the human factor involved does matter and does make a difference. Is photography not after all a human endeavour? Pentax cameras have a reputation for being photographer centric and their lenses, especially the limited primes, to be quite unique/distinctive in terms of the choices made for size, focal length, aperture and the images they produce. Whatever knowledge gained in the course of years and decades of lens design can't just be distilled into a CAD program. The interaction between designers, engineers, technicians and management to design a lens is a human one. Who's to say that Jun Hirakawa, as a lens designer had a vision for the limited lenses that he sought to realize, and that in process of trying to realize this, all these aspects you cite, "plastics and hard materials for lens bodies, micro motors, software, and glass cutting" were all made subordinate to realizing this vision, and that maybe along the way he had to tangle with management to defend his choices/proposals. Maybe there were compromises. Maybe when Hoya bought Pentax, the dynamic changed, and someone said, "Lens designers? Do they really matter?" ...

The impression I get from your note is that lenses are all about sharpness and pixel peeping. True for some, but not all.

If it's all about corporate restructuring to meet the bottom line, well then surely we should condemn the whole photographic industry and hobbyist segment right now and all learn to enjoy our cellphones.

I quite liked the interview done with the head of Sigma by Dave Etchells for Imaging Resource, an interesting insight into lens design of the new Sigma zoom:

Does it really matter?

I imagine a few lens designers won't make a significant difference. Sigma, Tokina, Tamron, Canon, Pentax, Nikon have been in the lens business for how long? 60 years maybe? There is a lot of optical knowledge around and from the optical perspective the increments in design and innovation are spare between years once the basic foundations have been created.

Now the game is called electronics, CAD/CAM, plastics and hard materials for lens bodies, micro motors, software, and glass cutting. All these factor fall under an umbrella called competitive strategy and execution.

Look at the Sigma Art series. Those lenses have taken at least 5 years in design and manufacturing preparation before bringing them to market. Then, it is not like if Ricoh gave the designers away to the competition. Same for Tamron, they have been improving a lot as of the last 5 or 6 years.

Now wait for Yongnuo to bring to market the lenses built and designed in China. I understand there is a 50mm 1.4 in the pipe line and probably a lot more coming. If we follow Yongnuo's playbook in flash design and manufacturing, interesting things will happen when they will commence mass manufacturing of all kind of lenses.

Are we going to ask in 5 years from now if Ricoh lost some designers to Yongnuo or Samyang?
 
I thought the article linked to below did a good job of explaining some of Jun Hiirakawa's insightful approach to lens design for the limiteds. Allow a little field curvature in order to reduce off-axis astigmatism, which improves Bokeh. Doesn't make the lens appear better against a flat test chart, but makes it better in real world usage.

 
Does anyone know anything about the rumour that when Ricoh took over the Pantax brand, some of the top lens designers for Pentax went to work for Tamron? I was wondering if this could explain why Tamron doesn't offer anything new in K-mount any more? Or is it totally rumour & nothing to it.

Cheers.
It was when Hoya took over and put Pentax up for sale at least 1 top lens designer got the boot and is not working for Tamron, at least the new Tamron 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 lenses are apparently attributed to this lens designer.
 
We in the outside world don't know that much what goes insides the ropes of the big Photographic Corporations in Japan. But as any other Corporation, the final results are product development, market share, revenue, long term sustainability and world wide growth.

In your response you have missed my main point: I tried to say that what really matters is something called a Corporate strategy: "All these factors (lens design, manufacturing, software development, hardware, glass cutting technology, etc) fall under an umbrella called competitive strategy and execution".

What I tried to say if that losing one designer, in my opinion, can't explain the lack of things. "one swallow does not a summer make". There is a lot more that is required to come out with product design and innovation and hence, market share and revenues.

That's why I am highlighting that there are companies on the rise in terms of lens development and manufacturing: Fuji is coming out very strong. Tamron has some good lenses coming out as of late (24-70 F2,8 VC and 150-600 4.5-6.3, just to mention two). Sigma Art series is very interesting and is coming strong. SIgma being the company that has surprised me as of late. I don't mention Voighlander or Leica as they are in a different league. We are talking here mostly about the high end prosumer market. Canon and Nikon have already plenty of good glass, so they don't need to rush or worry too much and I am pretty sure they have the cash and long term vision to respond tothe challenges.

I mention this just to indicate that all these corporations must hire hundreds of lens designers, optical engineers, and now with the convergence of information technology, signal and data processing the game is stepping up to a higher level. Sigma lenses come with a port that you can plug the lens on and you can update the software for the lens, download firmwares and so on. There is a lot going on today that requires more than an outstanding optical engineer like Mr. Hirawa, with all the due respect he deserves.

You need a whole corporate and global strategy, long term vision and investment behind the right men. That's why my question that if it really matters losing one person. You need hundreds of people to come out with the solution that the markets are demanding today. Not only one individual. What about if the individual changes companies, or retires or can't work anymore?.

NotSteve wrote:
Unexpresivecanvas, post: 53946827, member: 946416"]
Does it really matter?

I imagine a few lens designers won't make a significant difference. Sigma, Tokina, Tamron, Canon, Pentax, Nikon have been in the lens business for how long? 60 years maybe? There is a lot of optical knowledge around and from the optical perspective the increments in design and innovation are spare between years once the basic foundations have been created.

Now the game is called electronics, CAD/CAM, plastics and hard materials for lens bodies, micro motors, software, and glass cutting. All these factor fall under an umbrella called competitive strategy and execution.

Look at the Sigma Art series. Those lenses have taken at least 5 years in design and manufacturing preparation before bringing them to market. Then, it is not like if Ricoh gave the designers away to the competition. Same for Tamron, they have been improving a lot as of the last 5 or 6 years.

Now wait for Yongnuo to bring to market the lenses built and designed in China. I understand there is a 50mm 1.4 in the pipe line and probably a lot more coming. If we follow Yongnuo's playbook in flash design and manufacturing, interesting things will happen when they will commence mass manufacturing of all kind of lenses.

Are we going to ask in 5 years from now if Ricoh lost some designers to Yongnuo or Samyang?
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/73460885@N05/
[/QUOTE]
 
In your response you have missed my main point: I tried to say that what really matters is something called a Corporate strategy: "All these factors (lens design, manufacturing, software development, hardware, glass cutting technology, etc) fall under an umbrella called competitive strategy and execution".

What I tried to say if that losing one designer, in my opinion, can't explain the lack of things. "one swallow does not a summer make". There is a lot more that is required to come out with product design and innovation and hence, market share and revenues.
I think Mr. Hirakawa is a famous name that can be associated with what was probably a significant personnel loss under Hoya. So it can be seen as a symptom of some of the other factors that may have been headed downward (for whatever reason) based on corporate policy evidently by Hoya before they put the brand up for sale. Ricoh clearly intends to right the ship but it may take some time before they start turning out those lenses on the road map. I think Photokina will be a good litmus test for how far Ricoh has come bringing the brand back. Specifically, based on how many of those lenses from the road map are announced there. (Or what other announcements they might make).
I quite liked the interview done with the head of Sigma by Dave Etchells for Imaging Resource, an interesting insight into lens design of the new Sigma zoom:
 
Does anyone know anything about the rumour that when Ricoh took over the Pantax brand, some of the top lens designers for Pentax went to work for Tamron? I was wondering if this could explain why Tamron doesn't offer anything new in K-mount any more? Or is it totally rumour & nothing to it.

Cheers.
It was when Hoya took over and put Pentax up for sale at least 1 top lens designer got the boot and is not working for Tamron, at least the new Tamron 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 lenses are apparently attributed to this lens designer.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top