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Hi Patrick,

Thanks for reminding me about the need to get the printer's thoughts and requirements on the size of bleeds.

In terms of re-sizing, I think that there is a limit to how far you can go. A 4" times 3" does not necessarily convert well to a 8" by 6". I was just wondering what your experience was with this in terms of acceptability, particularly for print when the final output must be at 300dpi?

Sorry about my comments on layers, I was thinking about a personal requirement where I want to blend several photos and I'm stuck with one image, which looks too small at 300dpi. Forget that one.

Best regards,
Phil
 
Jose,

Thought twice about the name. Is it Nancy?

Anyway, you're so right about the potential complexities, cost factors and responsibilities. I think that you have also enjoyed the thread. Personally, I almost cracked up today at one stage.

I hope that Lou manages to get a firm 'mandate' for his role and lays off involvement in other areas, particularly on this session.

Best regards,
Phil
 
Phil F:

For screen captures, I use the Windows function "CTRL-PrtScrn" to copy and then in Paint Shop Pro I paste as a new image. PSP also has a Screen Capture feature (File> Import> Screen Capture) which works fine as well.

What are you unhappy about in your screen captures? Is it how the capture itself looks (just after you get it)? Is it how it looks once you resize it on your computer? Is it how it looks once it is printed?

If you could post or e-mail a sample, I'd be happy to see if I can get it more towards what you are looking for.

Regarding the 200 PPI vs. 300 PPI hopefully it is clear that the picture has a fixed number of pixels, and PPI comes into it once it is desired to be printed at a specified size or printing resolution (linescreen LPI). If a printer wants 300 PPI, rather than cause trouble by asking him to do it (takes all of 10 seconds), you can do it yourself by ensuring the Image Size dialog's "Resolution" setting says 300 pixels/inch before saving your file.

Thanks for your comments!

-- Patrick
 
Patrick,

I'll see if I can come up with a suitable screen shot for you and will email if I may. One that comes to mind is the InDesign toolbx, need this for a project. Screen capture (96ppi), using HyperSnap, produced a 2.25" x 0.4" capture, from memory. This was too small for the final look of the cover and when I enlarged the toolbox, it didn't seem right.

That's not to say that I haven't been happy with other captures.

Will catch up with you later as I need to do something or a divorce will be on the menu. lol!

Best regards,
Phil
Patrick Murphy said:
Phil F:

For screen captures, I use the Windows function "CTRL-PrtScrn" to
copy and then in Paint Shop Pro I paste as a new image. PSP also
has a Screen Capture feature (File> Import> Screen Capture) which
works fine as well.

What are you unhappy about in your screen captures? Is it how the
capture itself looks (just after you get it)? Is it how it looks
once you resize it on your computer? Is it how it looks once it is
printed?

If you could post or e-mail a sample, I'd be happy to see if I can
get it more towards what you are looking for.

Regarding the 200 PPI vs. 300 PPI hopefully it is clear that the
picture has a fixed number of pixels, and PPI comes into it once it
is desired to be printed at a specified size or printing resolution
(linescreen LPI). If a printer wants 300 PPI, rather than cause
trouble by asking him to do it (takes all of 10 seconds), you can
do it yourself by ensuring the Image Size dialog's "Resolution"
setting says 300 pixels/inch before saving your file.

Thanks for your comments!

-- Patrick
Click to expand...
--
Phil
 
Ulysses said:
rwh said:
Plus I'm assuming that if you're getting paid you'll have to do it
on your own time rather than the college's time. If you do enough
of this type of thing over the year, it is worth it, but for a
one-off project it may not be worth the hassle.
Click to expand...
Heheheh....

Hassle? What hassle? You pay the tax, and you get a few hundred
bucks for taking a couple of shots and prepping it for their use?
No hassle in that. You really dislike filling out the form that
much? :-)
Click to expand...
My experience has been that people can be much more reasonable when
they aren't paying you than when they're shelling out money :-) Once
you've agreed to providing the shot for $800 it can quickly turn into
several iterations as they try to capture "just the right shot". And
since his 'client' for the photo shoot is also his boss in real life,
things can get complicated.

My point on the taxes were two-fold. One is that they rapidly reduce
the $800 into $400 (16.5% self-employment taxes, say 28% federal and 7%
state gets you to a 51.5% marginal tax rate). The other thing is that
it can take a fair amount of time the first time you go to filling out
the fill 1040 form and Schedule C.

If he plans to do this a lot, then he'll have to learn about all the
neat forms and schedules that the IRS has dreamed up and it doesn't
matter. But I think it is important to be realistic about how much
work will actually be done and how much money will actually be
recieved.

It sounds like he has an opportunity to spend some time putting
together a shot that will give him some solid exposure. I don't think
its unreasonable for him to concentrate on getting the shot he wants
and working it through the printing process to the point that he's
holding the directory in his hands without trying to learn the
business side at the same time.

BTW, I work at the University of Minnesota and I'm not allowed to
consult to anyone in my department or school, and there's major
league paperwork and committee approvals before I could consult to
another department at the U. I suspect he doesn't have the option
of doing it for money.

--rick
 
rwh said:
My point on the taxes were two-fold. One is that they rapidly reduce
the $800 into $400 (16.5% self-employment taxes, say 28% federal
and 7%
state gets you to a 51.5% marginal tax rate). The other thing is that
it can take a fair amount of time the first time you go to filling out
the fill 1040 form and Schedule C.
Click to expand...
Your figures sound a bit high. Either way, taxes are taxes. Inconveniences are inconveniences. Neither need be real deterrents for this type of job. :-)
rwh said:
It sounds like he has an opportunity to spend some time putting
together a shot that will give him some solid exposure. I don't think
its unreasonable for him to concentrate on getting the shot he wants
and working it through the printing process to the point that he's
holding the directory in his hands without trying to learn the
business side at the same time.
Click to expand...
And I would wholly support spending that time to gain some experience, as well as enjoying the process. It would put him in a better position of confidence should this come again next year.
rwh said:
BTW, I work at the University of Minnesota and I'm not allowed to
consult to anyone in my department or school, and there's major
league paperwork and committee approvals before I could consult to
another department at the U. I suspect he doesn't have the option
of doing it for money.
Click to expand...
That may be true. We don't know all the ins and outs of his specific work contract. So it's difficult to say.

At any rate, you make some solid points as everyone who wants to embark on this needs to consider both the enjoyable side as well as the business end of things. Not everyone is suited to handle both.

--

Ulysses
 
You have a great 717 camera. All you have to do is take the shot, copy the file to your computer and from there copy it on a CD-R or CD-RW and take it to the printing shop. Just use JPG fine for saving the file on the MS, this is such a high resolution camera that enlarging your photo for printing will work just fine.

The print shop will know how to print it and even how to "manipulate the image" to correct it for white balance, contrast etc. etc.

What you should worry about is photography, not technical details.

So, think about how you will frame this shot. Is this shot inside or outside?If outside, at what time of the day, what kind of objects will be in front of the camera? etc. etc. These are the important issues to worry about. Not the technical details of camera, file type, printers etc. All of these are correctable in computers after the fact, except one, make sure you focus properly.
Lou Gonzalez said:
...that I'm a "photographer" and wants me to take the photo for the
front cover of our University's Faculty Staff Directory. I work in
the Telecommunications division of a private college in Upstate NY
and its a real honor for me to be chosen to do this since more than
20,000 copies get disbursed throughout our campus. Lots of people
are gonna see it.

Which brings me to my question. I'm nervous becasue I don't know
much about prepping the photo for print. Someone told me that the
image has to look good at least 300 dpi, and that before sending
it, I would have to "convert" it? What exactly do I need to do to
prep it for the print shop? It will be printed on a "phonebookish"
type of cardstock. The frustraating thing is that the people I'm
doing this for have no clue what I need to provide as far as file
formats or DPI. In the past all we've done is plain font headings
and square graphics...

Can someone please give me some tips? Thanks!!!
--
Lou

http://www.pbase.com/loug
Sony F717, MCON 35, TCON14B, WCON08B
Sunpak 383, Cokin / Hoya Filters, Epson Stylus 890
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the added perspective, D. C.

I guess you just have to look at State work as having other benefits.

And maybe there are other offshoots that might come from the exposure. While I'd probably personally take advantage of the opportunity if possible, it may be that this sort of contact might serve as a stepping stone due to the experience that will come from it.

--

Ulysses
 
Hi,

I was just wonering whether the comments below are ever taken into consideration by photographers if they are doing paid work for, say, a magazine?

Do these points come into your workflow or do you leave this to the printer? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of overall workflow as a number of the points were new to me. Of course, Yves is right, getting the shot right is critical but I'd just like to broaden my knowledge.

Best regards,
Phil
PhilF said:
Magazine & Newsprint Workflow

This workflow begins AFTER all editing processes are complete. If
required, upres RGB file in 10% increments to ACTUAL size and
300ppi for magazine, ACTUAL size and 180ppi for newsprint. Then,
convert RGB file to CMYK, or Greyscale for B&W image. Make sure
that you have setup appropriate printers’ RIP in
CMYK/Greyscale setup, or use Photoshop’s’ default SWOP,
newsprint or EuroSwop settings if specific dot gain, UCR/GCR and
ink limit variants are not available.

Go to SELECTIVE COLOR and reduce Magenta in BLUE by 40%, and in
CYAN by 20%. This will prevent RGB blue from turning purplish in
CMYK. SAVE as TIF, using IBM PC byte order. (Almost all MACs,
except for very old systems, can read IBM PC byte order, but it is
not so the other way around). NO COMPRESSION.

Have a Kodak Approval Proof made from this CMYK/greyscale tif file
at the line screen of the magazine (i.e., 133, 150, etc.) or
newsprint (i.e., 75, 85, etc.), on exact or similar paper, in
actual size. Send this approval proof with CMYK/greyscale tiff
file. DO NOT SEND desktop inkjet, continuous tone, or other types
of prints for reference. I advise using only a service bureau with
either the Kodak Approval Proofer or the Polaroid’s PolaProof.

If working with actual printer, get his “setup”, make a
custom CMYK and/or Greyscale setup, and CONVERT to CMYK using this
setup. If a spirit of cooperation exists, ask for a contract proof.
If not, supply printer with Kodak Approval proof in conjunction
with TIF file.

Lastly, all time and services, including cost of Kodak Approval
proof, are billable items, and should be included on invoice in the
same manner that you formerly included film/processing, scanning,
couriers, etc. If printers respect anything, it’s the Kodak
Approval.

DO NOT transfer unzipped data files by email. Send in binary mode
by ftp, or by CD/DVD and courier, or, as last resort, use WinZip or
stuffit and send by email.
Click to expand...
PhilF said:
AVOID SENDING ANY RGB FILES TO CLIENTS. To do so will allow your
images to fall to the whims and subjective interpretations of
others, including the printer. If you are going to burn CD, make
sure it is in ISO Level 1, with limit to file names of 8 + 3. This
will ensure true cross platform compatibility. For additional
digital advertising standards, see http://www.ddap.org/ .
Click to expand...
 
lol.... it seems like I answer to Jose a lot these days, but yeah, the name is Nancy. Either/or works for me, but thank you for asking.

Yup, I have enjoyed the thread. I'm wallowing in the sea of learning how to make this new camera work, so finding familiar territory is a huge relief. This debate is older than the Mac vs. PC wars. I can argue both sides of the issue, if you want me to. Both sides are right, it's as simple as that. Neither are 100% right, though, and beating each other over the head rarely gets a point across.

I think that Lou is going to do great. I've been thinking that he's probably cracking up a bit himself, watching the goings-on he so innocently started. :D

Nancy

-------
Phil F said:
Jose,

Thought twice about the name. Is it Nancy?

Anyway, you're so right about the potential complexities, cost
factors and responsibilities. I think that you have also enjoyed
the thread. Personally, I almost cracked up today at one stage.

I hope that Lou manages to get a firm 'mandate' for his role and
lays off involvement in other areas, particularly on this session.

Best regards,
Phil
Click to expand...
 
You are right it was not meant as condescending, but more as a indication of faked excitement.

Photo attribution is expected, not an extraordinary kindness from the publisher. If the publisher does not want to provide attribution, then the price for the work becomes even higher. One of the reasons advertising work becomes so expensive. You never get to see credits on a commercial, so that loss is made up for in higher up front prices.
Ulysses said:
Roy van der Woning said:
Nobody said it was. I only responded because Shay's "woo hoo"
sounded a little condescending towards the opposite.
Click to expand...
Nawwwwwwwwww... I'm sure it wasn't like that. :-)

Man, we ought to be able to embed sound files to the messages. They
we could hear the tone intended.

I don't think Shay could be condescending even if he tried really
hard. He's a humble man. :-)

Hmm... I like the idea of embedding sound files into the messages.

--

Ulysses
Click to expand...
--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
 
rwh said:
My experience has been that people can be much more reasonable when
they aren't paying you than when they're shelling out money :-)
Click to expand...
I would disagree, some of the pickiest people and most difficult to work with are the people getting something for next to nothing or for free.

Some of the best people to work with have been those I have charged a fair price to They respect my time, I respect their project, and everyone gets what they want.
rwh said:
Once
you've agreed to providing the shot for $800 it can quickly turn into
several iterations as they try to capture "just the right shot".
Click to expand...
This is where communication up front makes all the difference. If you know before hand what the client needs, you can write up a description of the requirements that both can agree upon. You shoot that and your done.

If they change their mind mid stream, then that just means they will be paying more for the extra time and or materials because it is they who are deviating from the agreed upon design of the shot. Leaving those details up in the air until the time of the photoshoot you're just begging for trouble.
rwh said:
My point on the taxes were two-fold. One is that they rapidly reduce
the $800 into $400 (16.5% self-employment taxes, say 28% federal
and 7%
state gets you to a 51.5% marginal tax rate). The other thing is that
it can take a fair amount of time the first time you go to filling out
the fill 1040 form and Schedule C.

If he plans to do this a lot, then he'll have to learn about all the
neat forms and schedules that the IRS has dreamed up and it doesn't
matter. But I think it is important to be realistic about how much
work will actually be done and how much money will actually be
recieved.
Click to expand...
Well realistically, there will be a lot of work and zero money received based on your plan hehehe. That sounds worse than a lot of work and some money received ;-) (just ribbing here, not meant to be nasty)
rwh said:
BTW, I work at the University of Minnesota and I'm not allowed to
consult to anyone in my department or school, and there's major
league paperwork and committee approvals before I could consult to
another department at the U. I suspect he doesn't have the option
of doing it for money.
Click to expand...
That would put a damper on things wouldn't it. Well he could use the experience to learn and then pursue other outside companies in the future using the project as a spring board. The so called "exposure" from the project will likely never materialize, he will have to actively let people know he did the project. The project is more like a resume filler than an advertisement. So it looks like the only thing he will be getting out of this will be a confidence booster, a little bit of bragging rights, and some good experience. What he ultimately does with that will determine how "profitable" this venture will wind up being.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
 
This is my thinking right now as well. Use this as a springboard for bigger and better things, and by better I mean of course earning something tangible :-)
Ulysses said:
Thanks for the added perspective, D. C.

I guess you just have to look at State work as having other benefits.

And maybe there are other offshoots that might come from the
exposure. While I'd probably personally take advantage of the
opportunity if possible, it may be that this sort of contact might
serve as a stepping stone due to the experience that will come from
it.

--

Ulysses
Click to expand...
--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
 
Phil F said:
I was just wondering whether the comments below are ever taken into
consideration by photographers if they are doing paid work for,
say, a magazine? Do these points come into your workflow or
do you leave this to the printer?
Click to expand...
When shooting for print, I don't consider technical printing factors such as RGB-to-CMYK conversion. The closest I get to that is being careful with reds. Print-related factors I do consider:

-- Orientation, proportion and printed size: (If you know the use in advance...) Is it a cover shot and thus vertical? A 2-page spread and thus horizontal AND has to be higher-res? Interior editorial shots (usually) don't matter -- the shot itself will dictate orientation, and the size will be whatever is needed to keep the editorial from crowding out the ads (grin!).

-- Breathing room. Leave enough border around the subject for type, bleeds, cropping to fit the page proportion. I don't zoom in and crop in the viewfinder. Instead my zone of interest is about 3/4 of the full image area, leaving about 1/4 on edge for breathing room. While this loses resolution somewhat, it is easier to gain apparent resolution (sharpening etc.) than to try and clone edge areas that aren't there!

-- Impact: For me, if a photo stands out at thumbnail size, it will also stand out on the printed page. To exercise my photographic eye, I like to cruise through PBase's "Random Photos" option, where you get a webpage full of 1" thumbnails.

http://www.pbase.com/photos/random.html

Pick the 1 or 2 best then see them larger. Usually the thumbnail will accurately reflect the actual-size impact.

-- Patrick

PS: To further test your photographic eye, here's an interesting feature at National Geographic's website.

Each month they prepare (at least) 3 potential covers. They are mocked up with type and everything. The website feature shows you the top three and asks you which one the editor picked. You can then see the winner, and also see the "votes" of those who visited the website and also tried to pick the winner. A typical page is at:

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/9808/match_wits.html

I could not find a single "Match Wits With The Editor" index page at NG's website, so if you want more, do a Google search for "national geographic match wits editor cover".
 
Glad you liked The Famous Company website. It is an honor to have been able to present the amazing activities of this diversifed enterprise. It has certainly grown over the past few years.

There are many Famous Company products and services yet to be told. For example, I have been informed that The Famous Company recently bought Lockheed Martin. But it is a secret so I was not allowed to put this news at the website. Don't tell anyone.

They keep tight control at TFC.

-- Patrick
On behalf of http://www.famous-company.com/
 
Probably not. For me, photography is strictly a hobby and as such, I wouldn't want to put a price tag on my pictures. The idea that I could take credit for that wallpaper would be enough for me.

Roy.
Shay Stephens said:
So your answer is no, you would not charge Bill Gates to use one of
your pictures as the default wall paper for the next version of
Windows?
Click to expand...
 
Shay Stephens said:
You are right it was not meant as condescending, but more as a
indication of faked excitement.
Click to expand...
Exactly. And that implies that, according to you, there is no reason to get excited about just getting credit for a picture. You need to get paid for that first. Correct?

Roy.
 
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