Nikon noise

Aggie71 · Jun 21, 2014

I have a D7100. It works perfectly fine in bright sunshine. But on a cloudy day or a subject in the shade, and I get so much noise all my photos look like a pointalistic painting. Common sense says it is either the camera or me. I sent the camera back under warranty asking about noise, they repaired reapired the White balance and updated the firm ware, but it did not improve the noise problems.

I shoot mostly wildlife and sports. So a standard setting would be shutter speed 1000-1250, aperature of 8-14, and I use iso auto. If the lighting conditions require and ISO greater than 400, then it is a 100% surety that my photos will have so much noise they are not usable. Any suggestions. Any techniques to lessen noise ?

Mako2011 · Jun 21, 2014

Aggie71 said:
I have a D7100. It works perfectly fine in bright sunshine. But on a cloudy day or a subject in the shade, and I get so much noise all my photos look like a pointalistic painting. Common sense says it is either the camera or me. I sent the camera back under warranty asking about noise, they repaired reapired the White balance and updated the firm ware, but it did not improve the noise problems.

I shoot mostly wildlife and sports. So a standard setting would be shutter speed 1000-1250, aperature of 8-14, and I use iso auto. If the lighting conditions require and ISO greater than 400, then it is a 100% surety that my photos will have so much noise they are not usable. Any suggestions. Any techniques to lessen noise ?

Do you have an example you can upload here and show? Sounds as if you simply are unaware of how with increased ISO comes increased noise. If you are zooming in and looking close, noise that is not a bother at normal viewing distance becomes easier to notice.

Brandon birder · Jun 22, 2014

Noise and noise management goes with the territory of wildlife shooting I'm afraid because wildlife is often in the shade and even when in sunlight the underparts are in it's own shadow. Also wildlife moves sometimes very fast and often deep crops need to be made because it is far away. This means shutter speeds are kept high and the extra magnification means noise becomes visible.

In general the solutions are combinations of these options.

1. Shoot in good light

2. Use flash for filling in shadows.

3. Get a very fast land long lens. F2.8 to f4 (What most wildlife shooters do eventually)

4. Get closer. Shooters portable hides are great, but many reserves have well placed useful hides. Carrying an easily manoeuvrable combo on a walk will mean that when wildlife meets you up close you have something to capture it with. Getting closer means you don't have to crop so much.

5. Reduce your large megapixel images to a quarter the size in post processing. With a bit of sharpening this will reduce the visible noise. BTW this happens on the fly when you view your 24 mpx images on a computer monitor without any processing.

6. In PP such as Lightroom or Aperture selectively brush out noise from the background and selectively sharpen the object (bird/animal) with a brush. This can also be done in Photoshop elements using layer masks.

7. Get good noise reduction software (Topaz DeNoise2 or Nik DFine2 are excellent.

8. Don't pixel peep unless you have too. Often if your image looks good and noise free at 50% it will look good at A4 print size and HD monitor size.

9. If you really don't want to fiddle with your pictures shoot neutral jpegs and let the camera do the noise reduction for you. You will loose some potential detail and if that matters to you, then ignore 9. Another option is shoot RAW and Medium size JPEGS. Then you can adjust to your hearts content but also may find the Medium jpeg, sharper, less noisy and of sufficient size for your purposes.

10. Get a D800e

One stop less noise but only if you use a longer focal length lens.

--
Cheers, BB
FlickR site
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon_birder/
Flickr D800 gallery
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon_birder/sets/72157629726734905/
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Flickr AFS- 80-400VR gallery
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon_birder/sets/72157633211093293/
FlickR Nikon1 V1 & V3 gallery
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon_birder/sets/72157628774050455/

Phathom · Jun 22, 2014

Aggie71 said:
I have a D7100. It works perfectly fine in bright sunshine. But on a cloudy day or a subject in the shade, and I get so much noise all my photos look like a pointalistic painting. Common sense says it is either the camera or me. I sent the camera back under warranty asking about noise, they repaired reapired the White balance and updated the firm ware, but it did not improve the noise problems.

I shoot mostly wildlife and sports. So a standard setting would be shutter speed 1000-1250, aperature of 8-14, and I use iso auto. If the lighting conditions require and ISO greater than 400, then it is a 100% surety that my photos will have so much noise they are not usable. Any suggestions. Any techniques to lessen noise ?

I run all my good images through NiK Define before posting them anywhere. Also, remember that your camera has built in noise reduction. If you are shooting raw then it is likely those additions haven't been added. In lightroom 5 (or other software) I start by adding lens profile corrections and camera corrections to my images to add those built in changes before I process. However, I would like to see some of your shots to see more clearly what you consider noise. I have a d7100 and have had no noise issues to speak of. Here are a few shots:

This is iso 1100 run through NiK define and other minimal post processing in lightroom 5:

Distracting background, but it's for demonstrative purposes.

This is ISO 800 run through Nik Define and minimal other Post Processing:

Window of an abandoned house

This is ISO 800 run through define and other minimal PP:

Goats at around 7:30pm

MalbikEndar · Jun 22, 2014

> aperature of 8-14, and I use iso auto

If noise really IS a problem then you need to keep aperture no more than f8, ideally even larger, DON'T use auto iso (which may get you into really high ISO unintentionally), use a tripod and VR and slow down the shutter...

There are compromises here that are more difficult with wildlife shooting. The final fix is to move to FX and get longer and faster lenses.

MalbikEndar · Jun 22, 2014

> Nikon noise

And ultimately the noise comes from the quantization of the electromagnetic field. So blame Einstein, or the deity of your choice.

Virtual Photon · Jun 22, 2014

MalbikEndar said:
> Nikon noise

And ultimately the noise comes from the quantization of the electromagnetic field. So blame Einstein, or the deity of your choice.

I thought Einstein didn't believe in quantum mechanics. Better to blame Heisenberg.

AlanWatson · Jun 22, 2014

MalbikEndar said:
> Nikon noise

And ultimately the noise comes from the quantization of the electromagnetic field. So blame Einstein, or the deity of your choice.

Planck, if we're really going to apportion blame. That's why it's his constant and not Einstein's

(Einstein applied Planck's ideas to the photoelectric effect, but didn't introduce quantisation himself).

AlanWatson · Jun 22, 2014

Virtual Photon said:
MalbikEndar said:

> Nikon noise

And ultimately the noise comes from the quantization of the electromagnetic field. So blame Einstein, or the deity of your choice.

Click to expand...

I thought Einstein didn't believe in quantum mechanics. Better to blame Heisenberg.

Einstein's Nobel was (at least officially) for his contributions to quantum theory. He also subsequently devised the theory of stimulated emission which underlies the laser. He was a significant figure in the early development of quantum mechanics.

He did however disagree with Bohr and others on the implications of quantum theory for the nature of reality.

Of course as photographers we have to live with the constraints nature and technology impose whatever we think of the physics.

dave1812 · Jun 22, 2014

Great suggestions already have been given, and for gawd's sakes don't use auto ISO (which was also mentioned, and I just wanted to chime in) !!

--
Dave

toomanycanons · Jun 22, 2014

Aggie71 said:
I have a D7100. It works perfectly fine in bright sunshine. But on a cloudy day or a subject in the shade, and I get so much noise all my photos look like a pointalistic painting. Common sense says it is either the camera or me. I sent the camera back under warranty asking about noise, they repaired reapired the White balance and updated the firm ware, but it did not improve the noise problems.

I shoot mostly wildlife and sports. So a standard setting would be shutter speed 1000-1250, aperature of 8-14, and I use iso auto. If the lighting conditions require and ISO greater than 400, then it is a 100% surety that my photos will have so much noise they are not usable. Any suggestions. Any techniques to lessen noise ?

Best technique I know of is to not be so sensitive to it. One man's "noiseless!!" is another man's "unacceptable!!".

wildlifr · Jun 22, 2014

dave1812 said:
Great suggestions already have been given, and for gawd's sakes don't use auto ISO (which was also mentioned, and I just wanted to chime in) !!

Aggie71 · Jun 24, 2014

This was a sunny day, but the heron was in a shaded area.

This second one is a cloudy day, but bright.

samdim · Jun 25, 2014

Aggie71 said:
This was a sunny day, but the heron was in a shaded area.

> ISO 2200, 1/800s f8, 210mm

Aggie71 said:
This second one is a cloudy day, but bright.

> ISO unknown, 1/800, f13, 195mm

These pictures are indeed noisy (although such kind of noise is easily fixed with common NR software). You should be aware that going to high ISO will produce noise and thus adopt your settings to avoid it.

The first picture taken at 1/200s and f6.7 would require around ISO 400 for the same exposure. The second (still life!) taken at 1/200 and f6.7 would require 1/16 of the used ISO! Moreover, using f13 degrades the [per-pixel] quality of your picture because of the refraction.

Dimitri

Tbolt47 · Jun 25, 2014

dave1812 said:
Great suggestions already have been given, and for gawd's sakes don't use auto ISO (which was also mentioned, and I just wanted to chime in) !!

--
Dave

Why is that? I use auto ISO a lot of the time and have no problem with it, all it's doing is increasing the ISO if the shutter speed gets to low or if the aperture is fully open and you want to maintain a SS, it doesn't go any higher than I would want to select myself (expect sometimes with flash, which I turn it off for most of the time). but has the advantage that it can use any ISO not just the 1/3rd stops that we can select.

JJ10 · Jun 25, 2014

I see from the EXIF data on the images that both shots where taken with the exposure compensation set to -1EV. That will greatly increase the noise in most images, especiallly with high ISO settings.

If you are worried about noise I would shoot to slightly overexpose in RAW and pull the exposure back when developing to get the results you want. I think you will find that will go a long way to fixing your noise problem

Virtual Photon · Jun 25, 2014

Tbolt47 said:
dave1812 said:

Great suggestions already have been given, and for gawd's sakes don't use auto ISO (which was also mentioned, and I just wanted to chime in) !!

--
Dave

Click to expand...

Why is that? I use auto ISO a lot of the time and have no problem with it, all it's doing is increasing the ISO if the shutter speed gets to low or if the aperture is fully open and you want to maintain a SS, it doesn't go any higher than I would want to select myself (expect sometimes with flash, which I turn it off for most of the time). but has the advantage that it can use any ISO not just the 1/3rd stops that we can select.

I started to question that as well, but if your singular goal is to reduce noise, or at least optimize print quality, then auto ISO is working against you. Balancing shutter speed, aperture, and ISO means controlling those parameters. Auto ISO, certainly very useful is many situations, means the camera is making the decision and while convenient may not be optimal.

To the OP:

It's not the camera.

The higher the ISO, the more noise you are going to get. Either don't use Auto ISO or set an upper limit that is acceptable to you.

Underexposed images tend to be noisier. Control your exposure parameters. The D71K has a pretty good amount of headroom that allows you to push an exposure and then dial it back in post.

Images examined at 100% tend to look noisier. Images are almost never printed at 100% (unless you are doing significant cropping or making VERY large prints). Downsampled images smooth out the noise you see at 100% and tend to look sharper as well.

Noise is (currently) a fact of life in the digital process. Either learn to mitigate it by controlling exposure parameters and/or using effective NR software.

I don't know for sure but you seem to be accepting what the camera tells you to use for exposure. If you are unhappy with the results, you need to take control of the process and understand how all the parameters play together.

Brev00 · Jun 25, 2014

Aggie71 said:
I have a D7100. It works perfectly fine in bright sunshine. But on a cloudy day or a subject in the shade, and I get so much noise all my photos look like a pointalistic painting. Common sense says it is either the camera or me. I sent the camera back under warranty asking about noise, they repaired reapired the White balance and updated the firm ware, but it did not improve the noise problems.

I shoot mostly wildlife and sports. So a standard setting would be shutter speed 1000-1250, aperature of 8-14, and I use iso auto. If the lighting conditions require and ISO greater than 400, then it is a 100% surety that my photos will have so much noise they are not usable. Any suggestions. Any techniques to lessen noise ?

Forget about your standard settings. If these settings produce underexposed shots, you are going to get noise and should change your settings. I would probably go for more open apertures sacrificing dof and, maybe, sharpness, to get a brighter image. Shutter speeds should vary depending on the activity level of your subject as well as the focal length used and vr on or off. Think about using +ev to push your exposures to the right but that will vary depending on the scene (don't want to clip important stuff).

If still having issues, I will take your defective camera out of your hands.
--

brev99

Explore brev99’s 6,815 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

wildlifr · Jun 25, 2014

Virtual Photon said:
Tbolt47 said:

dave1812 said:

Great suggestions already have been given, and for gawd's sakes don't use auto ISO (which was also mentioned, and I just wanted to chime in) !!

--
Dave

Click to expand...

Why is that? I use auto ISO a lot of the time and have no problem with it, all it's doing is increasing the ISO if the shutter speed gets to low or if the aperture is fully open and you want to maintain a SS, it doesn't go any higher than I would want to select myself (expect sometimes with flash, which I turn it off for most of the time). but has the advantage that it can use any ISO not just the 1/3rd stops that we can select.

Click to expand...

I started to question that as well, but if your singular goal is to reduce noise, or at least optimize print quality, then auto ISO is working against you.

Not IMO. As I mentioned before, if you are choosing the aperture and shutter speed, the camera will choose the same iso that you would have. If it doesn't, that means you didn't meter the scene correctly and/or properly apply exposure compensation.

Virtual Photon said:
Balancing shutter speed, aperture, and ISO means controlling those parameters. Auto ISO, certainly very useful is many situations, means the camera is making the decision and while convenient may not be optimal.

To the OP:

It's not the camera.

The higher the ISO, the more noise you are going to get. Either don't use Auto ISO or set an upper limit that is acceptable to you.

Underexposed images tend to be noisier. Control your exposure parameters. The D71K has a pretty good amount of headroom that allows you to push an exposure and then dial it back in post.

Images examined at 100% tend to look noisier. Images are almost never printed at 100% (unless you are doing significant cropping or making VERY large prints). Downsampled images smooth out the noise you see at 100% and tend to look sharper as well.

Noise is (currently) a fact of life in the digital process. Either learn to mitigate it by controlling exposure parameters and/or using effective NR software.

I don't know for sure but you seem to be accepting what the camera tells you to use for exposure. If you are unhappy with the results, you need to take control of the process and understand how all the parameters play together.

Tbolt47 · Jun 25, 2014

Virtual Photon said:
Tbolt47 said:

dave1812 said:

Great suggestions already have been given, and for gawd's sakes don't use auto ISO (which was also mentioned, and I just wanted to chime in) !!

--
Dave

Click to expand...

Why is that? I use auto ISO a lot of the time and have no problem with it, all it's doing is increasing the ISO if the shutter speed gets to low or if the aperture is fully open and you want to maintain a SS, it doesn't go any higher than I would want to select myself (expect sometimes with flash, which I turn it off for most of the time). but has the advantage that it can use any ISO not just the 1/3rd stops that we can select.

Click to expand...

I started to question that as well, but if your singular goal is to reduce noise, or at least optimize print quality, then auto ISO is working against you. Balancing shutter speed, aperture, and ISO means controlling those parameters. Auto ISO, certainly very useful is many situations, means the camera is making the decision and while convenient may not be optimal.

The two reason that Auto ISO will increase the ISO is one to prevent a blurred image from a SS to slow, which will cause the picture to be less sharp than increases the ISO or two prevent underexposure which means you have to increase it PP which will cause more noise.

The camera is only making a very basic decision to increase it and - in S if the aperture is wide open already or in A if the camera needs to go below the SS you set as the minimum. It's only doing this when I would want to increase it manually, the times I turn Auto ISO off is if I'm using flash and not worried about the background exposure or I'm on a tripod shooting a stationary scene. It's not like the camera is suddenly going to increase it for no reason, it just makes live easier in situations where you need to be quick.

Virtual Photon said:
To the OP:

It's not the camera.

The higher the ISO, the more noise you are going to get. Either don't use Auto ISO or set an upper limit that is acceptable to you.

Underexposed images tend to be noisier. Control your exposure parameters. The D71K has a pretty good amount of headroom that allows you to push an exposure and then dial it back in post.

Images examined at 100% tend to look noisier. Images are almost never printed at 100% (unless you are doing significant cropping or making VERY large prints). Downsampled images smooth out the noise you see at 100% and tend to look sharper as well.

Noise is (currently) a fact of life in the digital process. Either learn to mitigate it by controlling exposure parameters and/or using effective NR software.

I don't know for sure but you seem to be accepting what the camera tells you to use for exposure. If you are unhappy with the results, you need to take control of the process and understand how all the parameters play together.

Nikon noise

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