Canon 70D, with a Canon EF 400mmf5.6 USM

Thank you so much for this, This is the filter he is using, a 'Kenko' Smart filter MC UV370... not cheap, but you may think it was !! £29.90.. we are checking for NR. etc to see if its 'on' by default..

OK.... NR - off..... Centrepoint focusing ..on..... Filter...off

and things don't look at lot better !

(The bird is a china duck however, ! and he is definately putting it on his yearlist apparently as its rare over here !! Just thought you should see...)

aprildaly said:

OK.... NR - off..... Centrepoint focusing ..on..... Filter...off

and things don't look at lot better !

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Hmmm. Do you mean that things DO look a lot better?

It appears your ducks are in focus. Can't tell about ultimate IQ with this particular subject, but these porcelain figures look good to me. Best to test on some subjects with a lot of fine detail though (like birds) to be sure.

Now if these do not look acceptable to you, can you describe what needs to be improved upon?

Keep in mind that you can mess around with Picture Styles and image settings too (such as Contrast and Saturation, etc), if the images appear too flat to you.

Thx,

R2

......they are the same.........both samples indicate 18:37:06 GMT

sorry we took some fast photos after reading the posts and I guess I posted two from the same burst ! we had to be quick as the light was going.. we are in the UK so time ( daylight) was running low... will try to get better ones soon.. I have to go out now for the day but will get another from the same batch later on.. to us they still did not look clear... and yes very flat !

aprildaly said:

I have to go out now for the day but will get another from the same batch later on.

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That wouldn't add anything though. The target has no edges and no fine detail to judge by.

aprildaly said:

to us they still did not look clear.

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From what I can tell, the AF was spot on, and the IQ is much better. But like I mentioned earlier, will have to wait for different shots to be sure.

aprildaly said:

.. and yes very flat !

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Canon's DSLR images are meant to be pretty flat SOOC (straight out of camera). Gives the post processor a lot of leeway. You can make them as vibrant as you like (I use the Standard picture style as my starting point). How they look printed, or online is what really matters.

OTOH point and shoot cameras (and other entry-level) are designed to provide sharper and more vibrant images, with deeper depth of field SOOC. There's generally a paradigm shift that's needed when going from one to the other. After a while the DSLR images will appear waaay better, guaranteed.

I think that further shooting will rule in or out any camera/lens issues. Be sure to post some!

Good luck,

R2

Thank you for all your input, impossible to go out and play photographer today or for the next few days unfortunately, as my husband is finishing work too late to take advantage of the Sun ( such as it is) ,we will definately post again as soon as we can... We still think though that we will take advantage of the direct in store swap of lenses now that they have offered though,,,, more pics to follow at a later date.. and thank you all...x

I am sorry it took so long to get back to you... We had to wait till today, for Canon to send another lens to the shop !! as all other branches had sold out ... We went out whilst we had a bit of sun at lunchtime today, and my husband managed to get the majority of his bird photos in focus and highly croppable... they were bigger birds as we were time restricted , but after the other lens with maybe only a small part of the picture in focus, this is enormously different... Thank you for all your help, and it just shows that even when you spend over £1000 on a lens, they can be faulty...

aprildaly said:

Thank you for all your help, and it just shows that even when you spend over £1000 on a lens, they can be faulty...

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It may not have been a "faulty" lens but one that was not particularly matched to your body's tolerances. That's the advantage of having focus adjustment, MFA, on your camera. This article goes into more depth on the subject......

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2008/12/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths

Good luck with your new copy and post some results.........once you get familiar with your combo you may still be able to get more out of your lens by "tuning" it with the body's MFA feature. It won't hurt to try it.........

--
"Five out of four people have trouble with fractions."
Regards,
Hank

aprildaly said:

I am sorry it took so long to get back to you... We had to wait till today, for Canon to send another lens to the shop !! as all other branches had sold out ... We went out whilst we had a bit of sun at lunchtime today, and my husband managed to get the majority of his bird photos in focus and highly croppable... they were bigger birds as we were time restricted , but after the other lens with maybe only a small part of the picture in focus, this is enormously different... Thank you for all your help, and it just shows that even when you spend over £1000 on a lens, they can be faulty...

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Glad to hear things worked out April. It's good to have a spot-on lens.

My 400 f/5.6 has been right on the mark with all of the bodies it's been mounted on. It's nice to shoot worry-free. Hope you and the Hubby get LOTS of shooting opportunities.

R2

Hello again....

I wonder if you can offer a few words of advice please ...

This is for bird photography

The camera is set up so that first image priority and second image priority is focus based, all pictures are taken on a tripod, on a burst of about 10 - 15, only three within that set will be in focus.. I thought that pictures couldn't be taken unless they were in focus, as opposed to when in shutter priority etc.. The camera is set aperture priority f5.6 A1 servo with single point focus. Shutter speeds are high... Has anyone got any ideas as to what I am doing wrong.. Thank y so much for your time..

As a test, try a photo with One Shot AF (rather than Servo), use a non-moving subject with good contrast so the AF sensor can really lock on.

See if you can get sharp photo in One Shot AF first. The servo modes anticipate movement and if there isn't any, the AF might be hunting a bit.

If that does work ok, try to use Servo on a large, slow moving subject. Something like person on a bicycle that you can easily lock focus onto, track while panning and take several shots. Even in this scenario, you might only get 70% to 80% keepers. You should in in TV mode with the shutter at 1/1000 so. The camera will choose the aperture which is fine for this testing purpose. Feel free to put it on auto ISO or just choose 800 or 1600 in daylight.

Move on subjects such as larger birds or even pidgeons or better yet, seagulls which are not shy, fly fairly slow and almost hover at times. Same settings as the bicycle test above.

The distance you are from a bird and correspondingly how much of your viewfinder it fills, will be a primary factor in how many shots are in focus. Your AF sensor can lock focus on a "bird" if it only fills a small part of the viewfinder, but it will not focus on the part of the bird that you want to accentuate or capture in detail such as the feathers or wing or eye of the bird. If you are far away and the bird moves quickly it is still taking a picutre because it is in "accpetable" focus from the sensor point of view because it sees a dark spot against a light sky If you then crop in you see acceptable focus is not acceptable from a human "look at this" perspective.

I am writing this post quickly from work and I hope it makes some sense. I am happy to clarify later if you have any specific questions.

BrianG2007 said:

try a photo with One Shot AF (rather than Servo), use a non-moving subject with good contrast so the AF sensor can really lock on. ... The servo modes anticipate movement and if there isn't any, the AF might be hunting a bit.

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If you can get that hunting to happen, please tell me exactly how.

Thank you for this BrianG2007, My husband is out at the moment trying these latest ideas out... I will let you both know how he gets on later....

He explains this at about the 17 min mark. I have seen this happen quite often when the light is getting a bit low and contrast of the subject is reduced. Not to say that the focus isn't still acceptable when using Servo, but I think you will find the tolerance for "in focus" for one shot is more strict than in Servo. This is my experience anyway. Canon AF Explained

BrianG2007 said:

He explains this at about the 17 min mark.

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See Don't Use AI Servo (continuous autofocus) with Static Subjects in Busted! Digital Photography Myths for a brief debunk.

BrianG2007 said:

I have seen this happen quite often when the light is getting a bit low and contrast of the subject is reduced.

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When it happened, did you switch to One-Shot and get different behaviour? (Apart from the One-Shot halting on confirmation.)

BrianG2007 said:

Not to say that the focus isn't still acceptable when using Servo, but I think you will find the tolerance for "in focus" for one shot is more strict than in Servo. This is my experience anyway.

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In thorough testing of many aspects of PD AF I've never seen a fundamental difference between One-Shot and Servo (in how the two modes operate or behave, their "tolerance", accuracy, repeatability...), which leads me to believe that they are the same process, differentiated only by the halt in One-Shot and the predictive element of Servo. See Busted! The Myth of Open-loop Phase-detection Autofocus (bet be quick, 'cos DPReview are killing off user-created articles).

Thank you for the link. Ill have a look. I'm not here to argue, just giving my personal experience.

to the OP. Sorry to hijack your thread but this stuff likely does apply to your issues to some extent.

Wilba.. Thanks for the articles. Lots of stuff there and quite interesting reading. I read a few of your other articles as well. I appreciate all the work you have put into researching and writing.

I think I understand the concept of the open/closed loop. Is the primary issue that the sensor "sees" something in focus, but unless the micro adjustment is made, the resulting picture might NOT match what the sensor sees? I.E a few mm out of focus but still fine if you are not looking at the picture a 100% on a screen which might be tolerable for most uses? Have you noticed any improvement when comparing 1D flagship models to the mid level cameras or are the just more "adjustable" and allow for better calibration?



Regards,


Brian

BrianG2007 said:

Wilba.. Thanks for the articles. Lots of stuff there and quite interesting reading. I read a few of your other articles as well. I appreciate all the work you have put into researching and writing.

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Thanks. Disappointed that DPReview is killing off user-created articles.

BrianG2007 said:

I think I understand the concept of the open/closed loop.

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In this case it's as simple as, "one look" or "many looks"?

BrianG2007 said:

Is the primary issue that the sensor "sees" something in focus, but unless the micro adjustment is made, the resulting picture might NOT match what the sensor sees?

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My understanding of lens calibration is that it updates the Best Focus Correction Values held in the lens. My understanding of microfocus adjustment is that it applies a correction to the BFCV returned by a specific lens. In other words, focus accuracy depends on the quality of the BFCV used in determining whether the AF sensor is "seeing" an in-focus subject.

BrianG2007 said:

I.E a few mm out of focus but still fine if you are not looking at the picture a 100% on a screen which might be tolerable for most uses?

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FMPOV, the problem there is more about Canon's slack standard for focus accuracy, so if you send in a camera and lens for calibration, when the first-level technician checks it for "AF issues", they will say it's okay even if you have proved it's not ('cos your proof won't be put into the job management system and therefore will be ignored).

BrianG2007 said:

Have you noticed any improvement when comparing 1D flagship models to the mid level cameras or are the just more "adjustable" and allow for better calibration?

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Do you have one I can test?

I have a 7D + 400mm f5.6. Had to put mine at +2 calibration. Follow this set-up to a tea and don't waver off of it if any one in here
tells you otherwise.. http://www.deepgreenphotography.com/2009/12/setting-up-your-new-canon-7d/

Doug Browns set-up works a treat. It takes a little while to get use to back button, but it works very well. Make sure your bird is not too far away. You be making the same mistake I did at first, tasking shots of birds to far awy for the lens. Set the focus limiter to 3.5m not 8.5m as some one else suggested earlier. At 8.5m if bird does come closer you will NOT be able to focus on it, so I repeat-3.5m...I use Centre point mostly, but have the 5 point (as I call it) on custom function 1 for birds in flight (BIF)..Good Luck and Enjoy that Crackingly Good lens.