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I have an E-M1 and an E-M10 what would you like me to try?

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R Ortiz said:
I gave it a quick try, and it seems like the E-M1 is slightly better. However, I never use that mode and I'm not sure I was using it properly. Would you normally use a single focus point or let the camera decide where to focus?
Click to expand...
I'd normally use a single point or nine points, depending on the subject. Either c-af for fast moving subjects against a similarly coloured background (eg football players in a group) or tracking af for small fast moving subjects against an uncluttered background (e.g speedway riders against a dirt track or birds in flight against a clear sky).

In either scenario the EM10 fails, with the autofocus hunting around the subject. Release priority gives out of focus images. Focus priority fails to fire the shutter at all as the subject is never in focus!
--
Have Fun
Photo Pete
 
Bob Tullis said:
JCB123 said:
R Ortiz said:
I'll have an E-M1 and an E-M10 for the next few days.
If there is something you would like me to try and report back on, or questions about differences between them (ergonomics, capabilities, etc.) post them here and I will try to answer.

I have the following hardware available for testing:
  • tripod
  • FL-600R flash
  • ECG-1 (the grip for the E-M10)
  • Oly 9-18
  • Oly 12-40 f/2.8
  • Oly 14-150
  • Oly 17 f/1.8
  • Pana 14mm
  • Pana 14-42
  • Pana 45-200
  • Panasonic Lumix G3 (for comparisons)
I won't perform any tests that require a complex setup.

I'm at work now, but I can try things out at night when I get out.
Click to expand...
Given that -
  • I don't need a weather sealed camera to take pictures in the rain.
  • I am not really fussed about image stabilisation ( 3 axis vs 5 axis)
  • I don't think that the VF4 is very good. Its better than the VF2 but neither are that great. So not the difference in EVFs unless the E-M1 EVF is a lot better than the VF4.
  • PDAF gives E-M1 an edge over the E-M10 for C-AF but not a patch on a D7100.
  • Build quality of the E-M10 is good enough.
Those things apart, what can the E-M1 do that the E-M10 cannot. As a separate question what can the E-M1 do better than the E-M10.
Click to expand...
I suppose the E-M10 is more like the E-M5, and I'd suggest the E-M1 provides more access to changing settings in the field (due to the Lever). And a better grip w/o add-ons. Neither is a deal breaker for you if I understand your sensibility on them, and the E-M10 has an extra long exposure feature than the E-M1 doesn't to boot.

Just thinking aloud here, should I be wrong and someone can correct my thinking on the question.

--

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.
Click to expand...
Thanks Bob. Better grip is a consideration but given the extra size and weight of the E-M1 and that my application is for trekking with one or two (preferably identical bodies this would be a con as well as a pro. While I fully appreciate the importance of the grip and for other applications it would be a much higher priority, I can live with and adapt to a lesser design in this respect. I find the E-PL5s to be too small and really lacking gripability but their low weight and size for carrying out weighs that.

Can the lever be used to control ISO ?

Regards

John
 
R Ortiz said:
JCB123 said:
Given that -
  • I don't need a weather sealed camera to take pictures in the rain.
  • I am not really fussed about image stabilisation ( 3 axis vs 5 axis)
  • I don't think that the VF4 is very good. Its better than the VF2 but neither are that great. So not the difference in EVFs unless the E-M1 EVF is a lot better than the VF4.
  • PDAF gives E-M1 an edge over the E-M10 for C-AF but not a patch on a D7100.
  • Build quality of the E-M10 is good enough.
Those things apart, what can the E-M1 do that the E-M10 cannot. As a separate question what can the E-M1 do better than the E-M10.

That all sounds pretty negative but i am genuinely interested in what the E-M1 offers over the E-M10. I can see some advantages that they both have over my E-PL5s but apart from the items that I bulleted I don't see what else the E-M1 has over the E-M10.

Regards

John
Click to expand...
I think some people will like one and others will like the other.
I got the E-M1 in November and, in my opinion, it is the best camera I've ever owned (including the Nikon D90 and D7000). However, it is roughly as big as the smallest DSLRs (Canon Rebel SL1), and because of the grip, it handles like a DSLR. I missed my old E-M5. I prefer small and light cameras that handle more like film SLRs or rangefinders (like the old Canonet QL-17).

The E-M1's EVF is nicer, but not tremendously so. It has lots of programmable buttons. I especially like the lever on the E-M1 that switches the function of the dials (but I can program a button on the E-M10 to do the same). The 1/8000 max shutter speed could come in handy at noon on a bright day. Focusing is slightly faster in low light too. I never use C-AF or legacy 4/3 lenses, so that doesn't matter to me.
Click to expand...
Thanks

So the lever allows you to control 4 things with the dials ? So can I select those to be -
  • Aperture or Shutter speed (A or S) mode
  • Exposure compensation (Except for Manual mode)
  • ISO
  • AF area
That would be nice, but can be done on either camera ?

Regards

John
 
PoohBill said:
It is pretty negative, John, and entirely off topic response to a very generous offer.

Bill
Click to expand...
Well Bill I apologise for sounding negative. That wasn't my intention. I just wanted to list the differences that I was already aware of and that didn't represent a significant advantage to me. It was indeed a generous and helpful offer but I didn't think my enquiry was entirley off topic though. The OP and Bob Tullis seem to have taken it as a genuine enquiry though with helpful responses that I have found useful.

Regards

john
 
The lever normally switches the dials from Shutter/Aperture/Exposure Comp to ISO/WB.
The top left buttons from HDR, Drive & Metering Mode to Bracketing and Flash settings/Flash exposure comp.
You can even set it to switch from AF to MF.

It is a very versatile control.
 
JCB123 said:
Thanks

So the lever allows you to control 4 things with the dials ? So can I select those to be -
  • Aperture or Shutter speed (A or S) mode
  • Exposure compensation (Except for Manual mode)
  • ISO
  • AF area
That would be nice, but can be done on either camera ?

Regards

John
Click to expand...
What the lever does is change what the dials and top plate buttons do:

Dials - From Shutter/Aperture/Exp Comp to ISO/WB
HDR Button --> Bracketing
AF & Metering Button --> Flash Mode & Flash Exposure Comp

The AF Are has to be controlled with the directional buttons.

The E-M10 doesn't have the lever, but you can program a button to switch the dials from one mode to the other. The rest of the settings are trickier. You might have to use the MySets for that.
 
R Ortiz said:
The E-M10's battery is smaller. I believe it uses the same battery as the E-P5.
I haven't had the chance to use it all day on a trip, which is the real-world test, but I haven't found a huge difference in the battery life while playing with the camera.
Click to expand...
The E-M10 battery is the sama as the E-PLx battery.

I chose the E-P5 as a backupfor my E-M1, because they both use the same battery (same as the E-M5). The feature set of these 2 cameras is almost identical, including the 2x2 switch and 1/8000 shutter speed.
 
R Ortiz said:
I'll have an E-M1 and an E-M10 for the next few days.
If there is something you would like me to try and report back on, or questions about differences between them (ergonomics, capabilities, etc.) post them here and I will try to answer.

I have the following hardware available for testing:
  • tripod
  • FL-600R flash
  • ECG-1 (the grip for the E-M10)
  • Oly 9-18
  • Oly 12-40 f/2.8
  • Oly 14-150
  • Oly 17 f/1.8
  • Pana 14mm
  • Pana 14-42
  • Pana 45-200
  • Panasonic Lumix G3 (for comparisons)
I won't perform any tests that require a complex setup.

I'm at work now, but I can try things out at night when I get out.
Click to expand...
With the EM10, can you live 2x crop while recording video like the EM1 can?
 
R Ortiz said:
I'll have an E-M1 and an E-M10 for the next few days.
If there is something you would like me to try and report back on, or questions about differences between them (ergonomics, capabilities, etc.) post them here and I will try to answer.

I have the following hardware available for testing:
  • tripod
  • FL-600R flash
  • ECG-1 (the grip for the E-M10)
  • Oly 9-18
  • Oly 12-40 f/2.8
  • Oly 14-150
  • Oly 17 f/1.8
  • Pana 14mm
  • Pana 14-42
  • Pana 45-200
  • Panasonic Lumix G3 (for comparisons)
I won't perform any tests that require a complex setup.

I'm at work now, but I can try things out at night when I get out.
Click to expand...
One thing that I sometimes do with my Nikon DSLRs that I have not so far been able to do with any micro 4/3 camera is to have the camera tripod mounted and triggered from a remote position. The camera is pre-focused with the aperture set for as much DOF as possible. Optionally I also control lighting remotely but the question involves the camera.

In case you are wondering an example application would be photographing badgers emerging from their sett. For preference I would sit with the camera but when working with new subjects that are more nervous or when weather conditions are bad the remote triggering gets shots that I might otherwise not get.

The Panasonic cameras I have used (GF1 and GH2) would not wake up via the remote port. To use them in this mode I would have to disable all power saving so that they did not sleep. To save power I turned both LCD and EVF off but even then the battery would be completely exhausted within 3 to 4 hours. My E-PL5 will wake from sleep via the remote port but it will power off completely after being in sleep mode for 5 minutes and there is no way to prevent this.

In contrast my Nikons will sit for days if need be and wake instantly at the touch of the remote release button. In fact the battery charge does not seem to diminish at all when no images are being taken. Can either the E-M10 or E-M1 do this or at least narrow the gap. Lets put some parameter values on this.
  • Can disable complete power off indefinitely ?
  • Will wake from sleep via stimulus from the remote port ?
  • Instantaneously ready to shoot or at least with minimal delay on waking ?
  • Can remain asleep but capable of operation for at least 8 hours ?
The last bullet is a total cheek to ask so please ignor if you do not feel inclined, but if anyone has any information on this it would be of interest to me.

Regards

John
 
Last edited:
ApertureAcolyte said:
With the EM10, can you live 2x crop while recording video like the EM1 can?
Click to expand...
Yep, looks like you can't be in movie mode to do it (in either camera), but if you are in any of the other modes you can turn on the teleconverter and start recording that way.
 
JCB123 said:
  • Can disable complete power off indefinitely ?
  • Will wake from sleep via stimulus from the remote port ?
  • Instantaneously ready to shoot or at least with minimal delay on waking ?
  • Can remain asleep but capable of operation for at least 8 hours ?
Regards

John
Click to expand...
1) Yes, you can disable both sleep and power off
2) It does. I looks like it goes to sleep and then wakes up with the remote. However I doubt it is fully asleep. It has to keep that WiFi connection alive somehow.
3) It takes about two seconds to wake up if the Oly application is already running. If you have to start the app, it will take longer.
4) Not touching that. :)
 
I'd be interested in your thoughts on 3- vs 5-axis IBIS, on wide and telephoto lenses.
 
R Ortiz said:
sigala1 said:
Ron Zamir said:
Try to take the same image under normal daylight condition, with the lowest ISO and tell us, please, what is the difference in Image Quality and colors between the two, if there is a difference.
Click to expand...
Even better, post the RAW files. And try to make sure there are tree branches in the upper corners so we can see issues related to chromatic aberrations and fringing.
Click to expand...
I'll try that tomorrow. I got home too late today.
Click to expand...
Here are two E-M10 raw files:

OMD00388.ORF
OMD00391.ORF

And two E-M1 raw files with roughly the same scenes:

OMD10573.ORF
OMD10575.ORF

One of the E-M1 files is underexposed because I was trying to get the highlights under control.
 
merijnwijnen said:
I would love to see a small video comparison, so two identical shots:
  • Both using IS
  • Handheld
  • Identical shot at moderate focal length ( e.g. 45 mm)
  • 10 seconds just static, then a slow 90 degree pan
  • With some detail in the image, e.g. foliage
Regards,

Merijn

--
Merijn Wijnen
Click to expand...
Here are the links to the videos:

E-M1 Video

E-M10 Video
 
R Ortiz said:
I'll have an E-M1 and an E-M10 for the next few days.
If there is something you would like me to try and report back on, or questions about differences between them (ergonomics, capabilities, etc.) post them here and I will try to answer.

I have the following hardware available for testing:
  • tripod
  • FL-600R flash
  • ECG-1 (the grip for the E-M10)
  • Oly 9-18
  • Oly 12-40 f/2.8
  • Oly 14-150
  • Oly 17 f/1.8
  • Pana 14mm
  • Pana 14-42
  • Pana 45-200
  • Panasonic Lumix G3 (for comparisons)
I won't perform any tests that require a complex setup.

I'm at work now, but I can try things out at night when I get out.
Click to expand...
The best thing you can do with all your gear is to indulge yourself and take photos for your own pleasure. Also you can post some photos you like more than others on challenges.
 
s_grins said:
R Ortiz said:
I'll have an E-M1 and an E-M10 for the next few days.
If there is something you would like me to try and report back on, or questions about differences between them (ergonomics, capabilities, etc.) post them here and I will try to answer.

I have the following hardware available for testing:
  • tripod
  • FL-600R flash
  • ECG-1 (the grip for the E-M10)
  • Oly 9-18
  • Oly 12-40 f/2.8
  • Oly 14-150
  • Oly 17 f/1.8
  • Pana 14mm
  • Pana 14-42
  • Pana 45-200
  • Panasonic Lumix G3 (for comparisons)
I won't perform any tests that require a complex setup.

I'm at work now, but I can try things out at night when I get out.
Click to expand...
The best thing you can do with all your gear is to indulge yourself and take photos for your own pleasure. Also you can post some photos you like more than others on challenges.
Click to expand...
 
R Ortiz said:
R Ortiz said:
sigala1 said:
Ron Zamir said:
Try to take the same image under normal daylight condition, with the lowest ISO and tell us, please, what is the difference in Image Quality and colors between the two, if there is a difference.
Click to expand...
Even better, post the RAW files. And try to make sure there are tree branches in the upper corners so we can see issues related to chromatic aberrations and fringing.
Click to expand...
I'll try that tomorrow. I got home too late today.
Click to expand...
Here are two E-M10 raw files:

OMD00388.ORF
OMD00391.ORF

And two E-M1 raw files with roughly the same scenes:

OMD10573.ORF
OMD10575.ORF

One of the E-M1 files is underexposed because I was trying to get the highlights under control.
Click to expand...
I don't mean to sound ungrateful or anything like that, but these images make it hard to compare anything. As shallow DOF images. Images shot at infinity with wide DOF would allow better camera vs camera comparisons. These images vary too much to make fine comparisons.
 
R Ortiz said:
s_grins said:
R Ortiz said:
I'll have an E-M1 and an E-M10 for the next few days.
If there is something you would like me to try and report back on, or questions about differences between them (ergonomics, capabilities, etc.) post them here and I will try to answer.

I have the following hardware available for testing:
  • tripod
  • FL-600R flash
  • ECG-1 (the grip for the E-M10)
  • Oly 9-18
  • Oly 12-40 f/2.8
  • Oly 14-150
  • Oly 17 f/1.8
  • Pana 14mm
  • Pana 14-42
  • Pana 45-200
  • Panasonic Lumix G3 (for comparisons)
I won't perform any tests that require a complex setup.

I'm at work now, but I can try things out at night when I get out.
Click to expand...
The best thing you can do with all your gear is to indulge yourself and take photos for your own pleasure. Also you can post some photos you like more than others on challenges.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Photo Pete said:
Photo Pete said:
I gave it a quick try, and it seems like the E-M1 is slightly better. However, I never use that mode and I'm not sure I was using it properly. Would you normally use a single focus point or let the camera decide where to focus?
Click to expand...
I'd normally use a single point or nine points, depending on the subject. Either c-af for fast moving subjects against a similarly coloured background (eg football players in a group) or tracking af for small fast moving subjects against an uncluttered background (e.g speedway riders against a dirt track or birds in flight against a clear sky).

In either scenario the EM10 fails, with the autofocus hunting around the subject. Release priority gives out of focus images. Focus priority fails to fire the shutter at all as the subject is never in focus!
--
Have Fun
Photo Pete
Click to expand...
OK, I figured out how it works. I didn't have a moving subject so I threw a lens cap on the floor and moved the camera in all directions. The E-M1 seemed to track maybe a tiny bit better, but had more photos in focus. This was with the 12-40mm lens.

I will try again tomorrow with a longer lens and real moving subjects.

Unfortunately I never tried this when I had a DSLR so I can't say how these compare.
 
s_grins said:
R Ortiz said:
s_grins said:
R Ortiz said:
I'll have an E-M1 and an E-M10 for the next few days.
If there is something you would like me to try and report back on, or questions about differences between them (ergonomics, capabilities, etc.) post them here and I will try to answer.

I have the following hardware available for testing:
  • tripod
  • FL-600R flash
  • ECG-1 (the grip for the E-M10)
  • Oly 9-18
  • Oly 12-40 f/2.8
  • Oly 14-150
  • Oly 17 f/1.8
  • Pana 14mm
  • Pana 14-42
  • Pana 45-200
  • Panasonic Lumix G3 (for comparisons)
I won't perform any tests that require a complex setup.

I'm at work now, but I can try things out at night when I get out.
Click to expand...
The best thing you can do with all your gear is to indulge yourself and take photos for your own pleasure. Also you can post some photos you like more than others on challenges.

--
Camera in bag tends to stay in bag...
Click to expand...
There's a time and a place for everything.
Right now I have the opportunity to compare these two cameras and hep out some fellow enthusiasts who may be on the fence over which camera to buy.
Click to expand...
If you do not know what you want to try, do not try.

--
Camera in bag tends to stay in bag...
Click to expand...
If you do not have anything helpful to say, don't say anything.
 
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