External Viewfinder, GR: GV-1 or GV-2 (or other)?

leaf shutter · Jun 14, 2014

Anyone have experience with either? The 1 looks larger and maybe brighter, the 2 is smaller.

Outside possibilities include a Panasonic VF or the Sigma made for the DP-1. Both are cheaper but designed for other cameras.

Cronroe · Jun 16, 2014

I use the GV-2 on the GR - small, neat and bright - the best but expensive.

Also have 28mm voigtlander on grd 111 - maybe hard to find now at good price.

MarkWW · Jun 16, 2014

leaf shutter said:
Anyone have experience with either? The 1 looks larger and maybe brighter, the 2 is smaller.

Outside possibilities include a Panasonic VF or the Sigma made for the DP-1. Both are cheaper but designed for other cameras.

I went to B&H a while back and tried out a handful of viewfinders. The Sigma, the Nikon (actually it was at a different store earlier in the day so no direct comparisons, but it was ridiculously expensive), the Voigtlander & the Ricoh GV-2. Unfortunately there was no GV-1 for me to try, but I probably wouldn't have purchased it anyway due to its size.

These are my impressions.

The Sigma 28mm viewfinder was embarrassingly bad. It's cheaper, which was a bonus, but it just wasn't usable. The image was dark or small or something and it was difficult to figure out what the framelines were doing.

The Ricoh and the Voigtlander were both very nice. I'd say the Voigtlander was about 10% better (and 10% cheaper) than the Sigma, but it was huge - it was farther from center & just didn't belong on top of the GR. The Ricoh, which was almost as good, was smaller & fit perfectly on top of the GR and barely affects pocketability - it looks like it belongs & gives the camera a rangefinder feel while shooting, which I like.

I walked home with the GV-2. Though now I see them on eBay for around $70 and think - I should have got it 2nd hand. I saw a full GRDii with GV-2 and other goodies on eBay recently for $200 - less than the price of the GV-2 by itself.

My recommendation is get the GV-2 and get it on eBay. It's "just a piece of glass" - nothing mechanical or electronic to break, so there's less risk in buying 2nd hand. Heck, if I'm within the return period, I may return it & then get a replacement on eBay.

yoruk · Jun 17, 2014

Take a look at the Panasonic 24mm finder . The field of view is just about exactly the same as a 28mm equivalent lens . The GV-2 I was using always involved some guess work as to where the edge of the frame actually lay . With the 24mm finder I am very confident of my framing . Also , it is easier to get your eye up to than the tiny finders . Personally I find the GV-1 irritating with 2 sets of bright lines and of course the size makes the camera a bit clumsy , to me . Or..... I have a GV-2 I would happily sell you at a reasonable price .

leaf shutter · Jun 17, 2014

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. If the GV-2 frame lines are not accurate, I'll get the GV-1 or the Panasonic.

Would it be fair to say that the GV-1 is as accurate and bright (or brighter) than the Panasonic? Accuracy and brightness are very important, and because it will only be used in bright conditions the size is not of supreme importance.

yoruk · Jun 18, 2014

The GV-1 would be the same as the GV-2 for the smaller set of bright lines , and the larger set would not be accurate for the wide conversion lens . "They" say that the brightlines represent about 85% of the actual image . I , for one , would like to think I am good enough at framing to be allowed to use 100% , hence my use of the 24mm finder [ - 85% = 28mm , or there abouts ] .

MarkWW · Jun 18, 2014

yoruk said:
The GV-1 would be the same as the GV-2 for the smaller set of bright lines , and the larger set would not be accurate for the wide conversion lens . "They" say that the brightlines represent about 85% of the actual image . I , for one , would like to think I am good enough at framing to be allowed to use 100% , hence my use of the 24mm finder [ - 85% = 28mm , or there abouts ] .

You still have to take parallax error into account.

Also 85% is a lot more than you think, we're dealing in 2 dimensions so you take the square root of 85 and get 9.2, so in any given dimension it's 9.2 vs 10 (square root of 100) or 92% vertical and 92% horizontal. Which is only 4% from the top, 4% from the bottom, 4% from the left and 4% from the right. (0.92 x 0.92 = .085).

Viewfinders aren't made for perfectly accurate framing (again, parallax error, and the GV-2, being smaller would have less parallax error than the Panasonic, Voigtlander etc. style - those viewfinder being larger & therefore further away from the lens. They're made for rangefinder style photography - action, reportage with zone focusing, not critical framing - if we wanted critical framing we'd own SLRs or only frame using the LCD screen.

Lawrence Kellogg · Aug 25, 2017

MarkWW said:
yoruk said:

The GV-1 would be the same as the GV-2 for the smaller set of bright lines , and the larger set would not be accurate for the wide conversion lens . "They" say that the brightlines represent about 85% of the actual image . I , for one , would like to think I am good enough at framing to be allowed to use 100% , hence my use of the 24mm finder [ - 85% = 28mm , or there abouts ] .

Click to expand...

You still have to take parallax error into account.

Also 85% is a lot more than you think, we're dealing in 2 dimensions so you take the square root of 85 and get 9.2, so in any given dimension it's 9.2 vs 10 (square root of 100) or 92% vertical and 92% horizontal. Which is only 4% from the top, 4% from the bottom, 4% from the left and 4% from the right. (0.92 x 0.92 = .085).

Viewfinders aren't made for perfectly accurate framing (again, parallax error, and the GV-2, being smaller would have less parallax error than the Panasonic, Voigtlander etc. style - those viewfinder being larger & therefore further away from the lens. They're made for rangefinder style photography - action, reportage with zone focusing, not critical framing - if we wanted critical framing we'd own SLRs or only frame using the LCD screen.

Briliiant reply, Mark, spot on.

I read that W. Eugene Smith eventually switched to shooting with SLRs because it was the only way he could have exact control over the framing of his shots.

The rest of us are not in the same league as Smith so approximate framing is good enough for us.

I've ordered the GV-2. I'm loving shooting on the street with the GR 2 but when shooting in bright sun and wearing sunglasses, I often see a black LCD. So, I'm mainly pointing in the direction of what I want to shoot. It's not ideal. The little finder will help bring some order to the chaos of my framing.

Olifaunt · Jan 24, 2018

Anybody else had some more experience with the viewfinders for the GR(ii)? I can already compose approximately with the LCD, so it doesn't sound like the GV-1/2 will be helpful to me if they don't show the whole frame. For me the whole point would be to get away from cropping, keystoning, etc., so much afterwards, and not seeing the whole frame as in the GVs would defeat some of the purpose (though it is also really hard for me to compose on the screen so at least that might improve). But I really need to see the whole frame, so the Panasonic sounds like the best option here, right?

PentaxNick · Jan 24, 2018

I have both but don’t often use them as they ruin the pocketability of the GR. Of the two the GV-1 is much better, brighter with space around to catch stuff coming into frame. It also works with the wide adaptor lens if that might be important for you.

one concern I have is the aspect ratio. I’ve had them since the original GRD, the sensor for which I believe was 4/3. The GR is 3/2 so the framing may be wrong. As I said I don’t really use them much so haven’t really tested. I might dig them out this weekend to see.

One other downside to my GV-1 is that the finish back of the housing is quite rough which is of a concern as I now wear spectacles.

I also miss the exposure information. The GR definitely needs an EVF or Hybrid VF.

--
Nick

MarkWW · Jan 24, 2018

Olifaunt said:
Anybody else had some more experience with the viewfinders for the GR(ii)? I can already compose approximately with the LCD, so it doesn't sound like the GV-1/2 will be helpful to me if they don't show the whole frame. For me the whole point would be to get away from cropping, keystoning, etc., so much afterwards, and not seeing the whole frame as in the GVs would defeat some of the purpose (though it is also really hard for me to compose on the screen so at least that might improve). But I really need to see the whole frame, so the Panasonic sounds like the best option here, right?

I have the GV2 and it's not great. The one plus side is that it's small so the camera stays pocketable.

You have to put your eye right up to it in order to see the framelines, and of course the framelines are for the older 4:3 aspect ratio cameras, not the newer 3:2 aspect ratio cameras.

The time lost putting the camera up to my eye, adjusting the exact positioning etc. and the moment is gone - using the LCD is much easier.

I did some comparisons with other viewfinders - voigtlander I think - and I ended up on the GV2 because it's so compact.

I wouldn't recommend it. Also the resale value is nonexistent - so if you do want one, you can pick one up relatively inexpensively on eBay.

I really want to like the GV2, but it's just not great.

Olifaunt · Jan 25, 2018

PentaxNick said:
I have both but don’t often use them as they ruin the pocketability of the GR. Of the two the GV-1 is much better, brighter with space around to catch stuff coming into frame. It also works with the wide adaptor lens if that might be important for you.

one concern I have is the aspect ratio. I’ve had them since the original GRD, the sensor for which I believe was 4/3. The GR is 3/2 so the framing may be wrong. As I said I don’t really use them much so haven’t really tested. I might dig them out this weekend to see.

One other downside to my GV-1 is that the finish back of the housing is quite rough which is of a concern as I now wear spectacles.

I also miss the exposure information. The GR definitely needs an EVF or Hybrid VF.

John Russell NZ · Jan 26, 2018

I have the GV-2 which fits very snugly onto the hotshoe. I leave it on permanently as it's so small and discrete and use it occasionally in bright light. Here in New Zealand the summer sun is very harsh but I could probably quite easily live with the LCD only. It came with the camera which was second hand, but I certainly wouldn't fork out the $ for a new one.

Olifaunt · Jan 30, 2018

Olifaunt said:
PentaxNick said:

I have both but don’t often use them as they ruin the pocketability of the GR. Of the two the GV-1 is much better, brighter with space around to catch stuff coming into frame. It also works with the wide adaptor lens if that might be important for you.

one concern I have is the aspect ratio. I’ve had them since the original GRD, the sensor for which I believe was 4/3. The GR is 3/2 so the framing may be wrong. As I said I don’t really use them much so haven’t really tested. I might dig them out this weekend to see.

One other downside to my GV-1 is that the finish back of the housing is quite rough which is of a concern as I now wear spectacles.

I also miss the exposure information. The GR definitely needs an EVF or Hybrid VF.

--
Nick

Click to expand...

I just ordered that collapsible lens (forgot the name but it's been discussed on here in the past) that attaches to the tripod mount and basically makes your LCD into an EVF. I'll report back on how it works.

I received the Clearviewer. First impressions - it's like projecting the LCD onto a movie screen, so it basically gives you a full EVF with a large image that fills most of your visual field. You don't need reading glasses to see everything in focus. It is large enough to see the individual pixels on the screen and to wish the LCD were higher res. The image is slightly curved towards the eye at the edges, but it should be pretty good for composing and in-camera editing. Folded it adds about 1/2 inch to the thickness of the camera, which still fits in my small belt bag but probably would make the camera non-pocketable to some people (depending on which pocket). I don't consider the GR pocketable anyway so it doesn't matter to me. The one negative (and this may be a biggie) is that it blocks the battery/card door, so you have to remove it to transfer images unless you transfer using the USB. It is easy to remove with a coin, though, but that could get old fast.

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External Viewfinder, GR: GV-1 or GV-2 (or other)?

leaf shutter

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