Yes that is optics, but if I leave my camera on a tripod with the sun in the frame I don't end up with a burn on the sensor chip.....
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Warning to EM-1 users :sunshine into EVF can create indeletable blotches, as confirmed by Olympus.
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The diopter setting causing this could be 0, which is I believe how most people would set it, because most people have either good vision or corrected vision through spectacles, and the latter group mostly do not remove their glasses when looking into a VF. If this is the case, then a lot of the VFs could be in danger of this happening. If not, then a certain proportion of people may have this problem. In either case it's enough to cause these alerts to appear in the forum.
Indeed.
This has been reported for this particular type of VF (VF-4 and E-M1 - I believe they are more or less the same?), so counter evidence from other VFs may not be relevant.
Probably, but some theories can be more persuasive than others.
Michael Meissner
Veteran Member
FWIW, on the foursthirdsphoto.com forum, I corresponded with one person who had the green blobs appear on his E-M5 (which got fixed under warranty), and he had upgraded to an E-M1, and it was now showing the same symptoms. Perhaps it is more common in the E-M1's but perhaps those of with E-M5's, E-M10's, Stylus1's, and the VF-2, need to be cautious about have the EVF point into the sun, such as when you carry the camera on a holster or camera capture clip.
joergzielosko
Forum Enthusiast
You surely tested that with your camera?
You know that the sun's energy reaches the atmosphere with 1.367 kW/m² (solar constant)?
In central Europe (no we are not the sunniest place in the world!) about 700 W/m² get to the earth's surface, that is 70 mW/cm² (the eyepiece may be about 1 cm² large). 70 mW doesn't sound as high energy, but I can imagine that when focused to a very small surface (read: point), it may destroy some pixels of the 0.48 inch / 1.2 cm LCD panel within a few seconds.
Note that the front element of most lenses is considerably larger than 1 cm² (think of lenses with 72 mm filter size). You can easily calculate the energy hitting your camera's sensor, and imagine what happens when the sun is focused to a very small surface...
Anders W
Veteran Member
Yes, but there are these things known as hot mirrors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_mirror
Sensors have them. EVFs should have them too. I can only hope that the E-M1 EVF actually has one and that it is sufficiently good.
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Poldersnapper
Veteran Member
I am also beginning to think that they might be using EVF components with the wrong spec. Otherwise this problem would have occurred with many other cameras.
André
That they are taking responsibility for it and will, in due course, issue a recall for fitting of corrective, or replacement of faulty, parts.
More significantly: so Olympus SHOULD have! The fact that they apparently didn't is what defines this issue as a design flaw.
As for the title of this sub-thread "You cannot magically suppress the sun's energy!"... YES YOU CAN!
The damage from the sun is caused by the heating effect of the infrared portion of the spectrum. Filter that region out and you can produce a sharp image of the sun that won't burn anything - including an EVF. Commonly known as heat filtering glass:
http://www.edmundoptics.co.uk/optic...rtpass-edge-filters/heat-absorbing-glass/2403
http://www.hoyaoptics.com/color_filter/heat_absorbing.htm
Versions of this sort of IR filter protect the sensor as well as preventing IR from causing colour errors. Olympus could "harden up" the EVF design by incorporating such a heat filter in the eyepiece optics.
Most EM-1 owners will never hear of that suggestion until it is too late but, even so, it is a completely unreasonable suggestion for the average user to achieve throughout the life of te camera.
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I have now received the final information from Olympus concerning this problem .
Here is an excerpt of their mail (in German) :
"...Ihre E-Mail an Olympus [OLYHD156932]
Nach Rücksprache mit unseren Kollegen, sowie auch anderen diversen Abteilungen habe ich folgende Informationen erhalten.
Dieses Phänomen, tritt bei direkten Sonnenschein in den Sucher auf (wirkt wie ein Lupeneffekt). Dies kann wie im ausgeschalteten, sowie eingeschalteten Modus erscheinen.
Derzeitig können wir nur empfehlen, die E-M1 (oder eher gesagt den Sucher) nicht direkten Sonnenschein ausstellen, damit diese Phänomen nicht auftreten kann.
Hoffe ich könnte Ihnen Ihre Frage beantworten und wünsche ein angenehmes Wochenende. ..."
Rough translation:
" Ref. your mail to Olympus <OLYHD156932>
After consulting with our colleagues and several other departments I have received the following information.
This phenomenon occurs due to direct sunshine into the finder, which effectuates a magnifying effect . It can happen when the camera is turned on or turned off.
At this point in time we can only recommend to avoid direct sunshine upon the camera (or actually
upon the EVF), to prevent the problem from occurring .
I hope to have answered your question, and wish you a nice weekend. "
So, users are left alone with this problem, seems that there is nothing that Olympus can do to prevent this from happening.
I will message one of the DPR reviewers of the E-M1 to point them to this thread, and see if they can get some additional information on this.
Here is an excerpt of their mail (in German) :
"...Ihre E-Mail an Olympus [OLYHD156932]
Nach Rücksprache mit unseren Kollegen, sowie auch anderen diversen Abteilungen habe ich folgende Informationen erhalten.
Dieses Phänomen, tritt bei direkten Sonnenschein in den Sucher auf (wirkt wie ein Lupeneffekt). Dies kann wie im ausgeschalteten, sowie eingeschalteten Modus erscheinen.
Derzeitig können wir nur empfehlen, die E-M1 (oder eher gesagt den Sucher) nicht direkten Sonnenschein ausstellen, damit diese Phänomen nicht auftreten kann.
Hoffe ich könnte Ihnen Ihre Frage beantworten und wünsche ein angenehmes Wochenende. ..."
Rough translation:
" Ref. your mail to Olympus <OLYHD156932>
After consulting with our colleagues and several other departments I have received the following information.
This phenomenon occurs due to direct sunshine into the finder, which effectuates a magnifying effect . It can happen when the camera is turned on or turned off.
At this point in time we can only recommend to avoid direct sunshine upon the camera (or actually
upon the EVF), to prevent the problem from occurring .
I hope to have answered your question, and wish you a nice weekend. "
So, users are left alone with this problem, seems that there is nothing that Olympus can do to prevent this from happening.
I will message one of the DPR reviewers of the E-M1 to point them to this thread, and see if they can get some additional information on this.
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Anders W
Veteran Member
Thanks for your report although it is a discouraging one. As to what Olympus could do: What they say suggests that they have made some mistake with regard to the hot mirror when designing the E-M1 EVF. Hopefully, they can revise the design and offer a fix for units already produced.
Poldersnapper
Veteran Member
Thanks for the update. It would be a shame if they just left it like that.
André
André
Because Olympus manuals (as well most other makers or products of today), are incomplete, inconsistent, erroneous, poorly written, and boring.
Thing is, problem in not about "shooting directly into the sun". Read thread again and possibly refrain from making useless statements.
Anders W
Veteran Member
If the problem is caused by excessive heat (IR radiation) rather than ordinary light (as seems likely although we can't know for sure), fitting a tailor-made hot mirror into the eye-piece might be a solution. These guys say they can cut one for you but I haven't checked the cost:
http://www.image-optics.fsnet.co.uk/hotmirror.htm
Since you are already in touch with Oly about the problem, you might do us all another service by asking them if something like this would reduce/eliminate the problem.
If that's the case, it should also be rather easy for Oly themselves to offer a fix in the form of a special eye-piece that includes a hot mirror.
http://www.image-optics.fsnet.co.uk/hotmirror.htm
Since you are already in touch with Oly about the problem, you might do us all another service by asking them if something like this would reduce/eliminate the problem.
If that's the case, it should also be rather easy for Oly themselves to offer a fix in the form of a special eye-piece that includes a hot mirror.
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herebefore
Veteran Member
Yes I agree that the "hot mirror" might be a viable resolution. However, I believe that now the ball is in Olympus' court, and they would need to come up with a resolution of their own... allways provided public pressure on them is high enough to result in action from their technical development. I'm thinking of Nikon's oil shutter issue as an example of how, in the end, an initially reluctant corporation surrendered to public opinion. If I didn't already have the E-M1, and was contemplating the purchase, I'd now think twice and thrice before buying a potentially flawed product.
Anders W
Veteran Member
Yes, pressure via public opinion is an important mechanism in cases like these, and in order for public opinion to exert such pressure, it must first be informed as you did via this thread (and by notifying Andy Westlake who will hopefully do his part in bringing the matter to proper attention as well).
I am not sure I see the issue as quite that serious, especially if Oly does its part by being generous with regard to repairs (even if the camera is out of warranty) and, hopefully, coming up with a permanent fix. But I am grateful that you brought the matter to my attention. I will certainly think more carefully about how I handle the camera with respect to sun exposure from behind than I otherwise would.
luisflorit
Veteran Member
Sorry for being late: is there any of the proportion of users in the forum experiencing this problem, and which diopter adjustment the affected users use?
Thanks for bringing this up.
L.
Thanks for bringing this up.
L.
Anders W
Veteran Member
As to the diopter adjustment, the problem should be worst if it is set to zero, i.e., such that a person with perfect vision of perfect glasses can view the EVF with maximum convenience (as though it were at infinity).
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