How much has technology really moved on?

I'd certainly welcome discussions on getting the best out of existing equipment too, but even they seems to degrade into rants about how you must use medium size images with EXR dynamic range expansion turned on, or your photos will be rubbish.
Nice straw man you've created to take your swings at. I don't recall ANYONE that has ever said that.
Ok, perhaps a little exaggerated, but it's certainly something that comes across during those discussions.
I've argued (unsuccessfully it seems) that the DR setting should be chosen to match the lighting, that too many people automatically use a too high DR value. But even if the wrong value is used it doesn't turn ANYTHING into rubbish. It just produces photos that are suboptimal, either more drab or more harsh than a better value would have produced.
Hmm, yeah it is possible, the HS50 had a particular setting that produced a set of images that were almost completely ready for the trash on one occasion for me.
I've also said that sometimes M size produces better images but also that at other times L size would produce better results. What I do know is that at least one person here has adamantly maintained that L size ALWAYS produces better results.
I wasn't pointing fingers, and yeah, I know who you mean there. I'd always agree with that myself, that choosing a setting to work with a scene will always be the best way to work. However, I think most arguments come about on agreeing about the day-to-day go-to setting.
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I want to explore all the settings of my camera, and see what it does for myself, and I want to be able to prefer a different setting to everyone else if I think it works better for me.
It doesn't appear that anyone has prevented you from doing this.
Of course it hasn't, but I see the advice being given out as though there is only one setting that you should use on an EXR camera. I prefer to advocate offering a variety of settings, and advise trial and error by others.
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I'm not even saying that we shouldn't embrace the newest technology, and enjoy it if we can afford it, but it isn't going to make you better as a photographer. Why not carry on enjoying older equipment if it still works for you, without worrying about not having that newest technology.
There have been so many people here advocating just that, that they're too hard to count. Several of them have been praising the S100fs, and others say that they prefer the HS10, HS20 and HS30 over the latest models and others prefer even older Fuji cameras. I don't recall seeing anyone telling them that they're wrong. The thing is, most people here don't have as a goal to become excellent photographers and there's nothing wrong with that. So for most people there's little reason to get a camera that has a much better lens or sensor but every reason to get a newer camera that provides desirable features such as greater focusing speed, better LCDs and EVFs, better controls and button layouts that make taking pictures easier and more pleasurable. An old camera that still produces photos with very good image quality doesn't stand a chance of being embraced if it uses xD cards that take 30 seconds to save a single RAW file and doesn't have image stabilization.
Of course you'd not want to keep any camera if it performed that badly (although I've owned xD based cameras, and they never performed that badly) - but would you if it produced fantastic images?
I personally don't mind low resolution EVFs. What I'd like are EVFs of any resolution that have no lag, so you could pan fast moving subjects because the EVF shows you where the subject IS, vs where the subject WAS.
Fair enough.
 
Andy Hewitt wrote:
I'd certainly welcome discussions on getting the best out of existing equipment too, but even they seems to degrade into rants about how you must use medium size images with EXR dynamic range expansion turned on, or your photos will be rubbish.
Nice straw man you've created to take your swings at. I don't recall ANYONE that has ever said that.
Ok, perhaps a little exaggerated, but it's certainly something that comes across during those discussions.
It doesn't appear that anyone has prevented you from doing this.
Of course it hasn't, but I see the advice being given out as though there is only one setting that you should use on an EXR camera. I prefer to advocate offering a variety of settings, and advise trial and error by others.
There is a middle ground.

The EXR cameras, while far from one-trick ponies, have one outstanding feature: the ability to capture comparable to large sensor dynamic range within a camera that is either: small enough to put into a pocket, or, because of a small sensor size, can sport a lens with a large reach and comparatively large aperture into a portable package. Take away the dynamic range advantage, and the Fujifilm EXR compacts are pretty humdrum cameras for their generation, arguably bested by many other same-era compacts from other makers that are similarly priced. So the decision to purchase a Fujifilm EXR compact instead of a Sony compact or a Panasonic compact, or -- Lord help us -- a Canon compact pretty much is premised upon the idea that the dynamic range feature is the reason the user chose an EXR model of Fujifilm in the first place.

Now if the user is seeking advice on this forum how to tweak his or her EXR camera, it is reasonable to proceed to give advice that helps the user get the most of the dynamic range advantage that EXR cameras have. If this were an off-road vehicle forum, you would expect most of the advice to relate how to use the 4-wheel drive capability of a vehicle in adverse conditions rather than advice as to how to park the vehicle in a suburban shopping mall, don't you think?
 
Note: funky indenting is correct as I am answering two posts at once ...
Andy Hewitt wrote:
I'd certainly welcome discussions on getting the best out of existing equipment too, but even they seems to degrade into rants about how you must use medium size images with EXR dynamic range expansion turned on, or your photos will be rubbish.
Nice straw man you've created to take your swings at. I don't recall ANYONE that has ever said that.
Ok, perhaps a little exaggerated, but it's certainly something that comes across during those discussions.
It doesn't appear that anyone has prevented you from doing this.
Of course it hasn't, but I see the advice being given out as though there is only one setting that you should use on an EXR camera. I prefer to advocate offering a variety of settings, and advise trial and error by others.
What you see isn't necessarily what has been written, I have come to understand. Take the filters off and you will see that everyone says exactly the same thing. Practice and try settings to see what works for you. No one would disagree with such an axiomatic bit of advice.

What some of us do recommend is a best set of default settings. I realize that you dislike nuance, but there it is. Default settings allow room for changing settings and for experimenting.


By the way ... I shoot one basic set of settings everywhere except for concerts. But that's just me. These settings are covered in the summary at the beginning of my article.
There is a middle ground.
Right there beside lifelong mediocrity :-)
The EXR cameras, while far from one-trick ponies, have one outstanding feature: the ability to capture comparable to large sensor dynamic range within a camera that is either: small enough to put into a pocket, or, because of a small sensor size, can sport a lens with a large reach and comparatively large aperture into a portable package. Take away the dynamic range advantage, and the Fujifilm EXR compacts are pretty humdrum cameras for their generation, arguably bested by many other same-era compacts from other makers that are similarly priced. So the decision to purchase a Fujifilm EXR compact instead of a Sony compact or a Panasonic compact, or -- Lord help us -- a Canon compact pretty much is premised upon the idea that the dynamic range feature is the reason the user chose an EXR model of Fujifilm in the first place.
Yes, exactly. The EXR cameras are extremely good at one thing, but it happens to be the biggest weakness of small sensor cameras and that makes these sensors pretty special and well worth shooting if one happens to favour blue skies coming out, well, blue :-)
Now if the user is seeking advice on this forum how to tweak his or her EXR camera, it is reasonable to proceed to give advice that helps the user get the most of the dynamic range advantage that EXR cameras have. If this were an off-road vehicle forum, you would expect most of the advice to relate how to use the 4-wheel drive capability of a vehicle in adverse conditions rather than advice as to how to park the vehicle in a suburban shopping mall, don't you think?
Wow ... I feel really dull witted this evening as that entire paragraph eludes my powers of reason.
 
Looking at some images from cameras through the ages you can certainly see why there was resistance in some areas for changing from CCD to CMOS sensors.
 
Note: funky indenting is correct as I am answering two posts at once ...
Andy Hewitt wrote:
Of course it hasn't, but I see the advice being given out as though there is only one setting that you should use on an EXR camera. I prefer to advocate offering a variety of settings, and advise trial and error by others.
What you see isn't necessarily what has been written, I have come to understand. Take the filters off and you will see that everyone says exactly the same thing. Practice and try settings to see what works for you. No one would disagree with such an axiomatic bit of advice.
Fair enough, I'm sure it's how I'm perceiving things, maybe it's just the threads I pick up on seem to be like that, as I don't read every thread here.
What some of us do recommend is a best set of default settings. I realize that you dislike nuance, but there it is. Default settings allow room for changing settings and for experimenting.

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/10/fuji-f70exr-how-to-shoot-it-mkii.html
Yes, I have read your article, but having tried out all of the settings on the X-S1, and previously the HS50, and also as a Lightroom 5 user, I can't agree with a lot of your comments on Raw shooting now. Perhaps that's at least one area that discounts my original comment about technology not mowing on. Adobe have made quite a few improvements I think (perhaps mostly since you wrote that article), and some even specifically for the Fuji cameras.

Coming down from DSLR I was keen to stick with Raw, I am used to processing them. But my combination of equipment and software does show that Raw L size is indeed very usable, and as I've said before, many of my JPEGs have ended up with blown highlights, not due to poor exposure, or lack of DR, but because of the nature of the JPEG processor in the camera (shown by comparing Raw+JPEG shots).

By the way ... I shoot one basic set of settings everywhere except for concerts. But that's just me. These settings are covered in the summary at the beginning of my article.
As it happens, I also use a default setting for most things, although I doubt it's the same as yours. However, I've also found the wonders of the 'C' settings, and have these set up so I can more easily switch between my favoured Raw L size DR100 mode, and the more popular Raw+JPEG M size DR400 mode - I also have the third one set up for moving object shots.
There is a middle ground.
Right there beside lifelong mediocrity :-)
The EXR cameras, while far from one-trick ponies, have one outstanding feature: the ability to capture comparable to large sensor dynamic range within a camera that is either: small enough to put into a pocket, or, because of a small sensor size, can sport a lens with a large reach and comparatively large aperture into a portable package. Take away the dynamic range advantage, and the Fujifilm EXR compacts are pretty humdrum cameras for their generation, arguably bested by many other same-era compacts from other makers that are similarly priced. So the decision to purchase a Fujifilm EXR compact instead of a Sony compact or a Panasonic compact, or -- Lord help us -- a Canon compact pretty much is premised upon the idea that the dynamic range feature is the reason the user chose an EXR model of Fujifilm in the first place.
Yes, exactly. The EXR cameras are extremely good at one thing, but it happens to be the biggest weakness of small sensor cameras and that makes these sensors pretty special and well worth shooting if one happens to favour blue skies coming out, well, blue :-)
Actually, I understood very little about the EXR system when I bought into Fuji last year, it was other factors that decided it for me. I was looking at zoom range, lens speed, Raw capability, and the biggest was manual zoom (although I was close to considering the Panasonic FZ200), along with the slightly larger sensor that the Fujis have.

To be honest, I see perfectly good images coming out, with all but a few settings (such as forcing DR400 in Raw mode at L Size and ISO100, which ends up with awful images), sky colours are great in my default settings, the latest Lightroom profiles seem to work very well, and you do have a lot of latitude for making adjustments anyway with the Raw images.
Now if the user is seeking advice on this forum how to tweak his or her EXR camera, it is reasonable to proceed to give advice that helps the user get the most of the dynamic range advantage that EXR cameras have. If this were an off-road vehicle forum, you would expect most of the advice to relate how to use the 4-wheel drive capability of a vehicle in adverse conditions rather than advice as to how to park the vehicle in a suburban shopping mall, don't you think?
Wow ... I feel really dull witted this evening as that entire paragraph eludes my powers of reason.
I get what he's saying, but it's the narrow minded approach that I've been talking about. It assumes the Fuji cameras are only good at one thing, which is clearly incorrect. Obviously there's good advice on how to use the EXR system, but even switching out of EXR modes, they seem quite capable cameras, and still the equal of anything else.

Likewise with the 4x4 analogy, quite clearly they're also good for other uses, including taking the kids to school :-)
 

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