Price for a Construction Site Photograph?

Kanz · Jun 7, 2014

Hi there fellow photographers,

One of my client is requesting me to take photograph of their construction site. However they would like to charge me based on per photograph. Meaning, they would purchase X number of photograph based on the overall shot that I've taken.

I normally charge based on per day basis. But its a different request this time around.

The project is located in the Middle East and cost a few billion dollars. It is during the summer. Temperature could reach up to 50-60 degrees. Other price factor that needs to be consider would be environmental risk (sandstorm, very dusty condition) and also safety risk during the photography session.

Does anyone have a rough idea on the minimum/maximum price per photo?

Thank you!

ampimagedotcom · Jun 7, 2014

Kanz said:
Does anyone have a rough idea on the minimum/maximum price per photo?

To start with, it would depend on what you estimate your basic production costs would be - as that would be the minimum you would need to charge here.

So to help determine what exactly it is you are being asked to produce & then provide them with afterwards, then you would require the following information first:-

1. The type of images: (subject matter, style, look, etc ?).
2. Number of images: (1, 2, 3, 30, 300, etc ?).
3. Location: Middle East.
4. Media use: (see list for breakdown).
5. Period of use: (the number of months or years they need to use the images for ?).
6. Territory of use: (Middle East, USA, English language areas, Worldwide or Internet only ?).

Because only then would you really be able to quote them a fee to meet their requirements - as there are more than 100 different ways to shoot any subject - from quick snap shots through to full production staged shots using larger format camera systems, lights, models, stylists, etc, etc.

--
Cheers,
Ashley.

ampimage.com

RhysM · Jun 7, 2014

Kanz said:
Hi there fellow photographers,

One of my client is requesting me to take photograph of their construction site. However they would like to charge me based on per photograph. Meaning, they would purchase X number of photograph based on the overall shot that I've taken.

I normally charge based on per day basis. But its a different request this time around.

The project is located in the Middle East and cost a few billion dollars. It is during the summer. Temperature could reach up to 50-60 degrees. Other price factor that needs to be consider would be environmental risk (sandstorm, very dusty condition) and also safety risk during the photography session.

Does anyone have a rough idea on the minimum/maximum price per photo?

Thank you!

I'm sorry to sound harsh but this is a ridiculous question.

If you are being hired to produce images for a multi-billion dollar project then you must be an established photographer with a good reputation.

If this is the case you must surely realise that a) you should be able to work this out yourself based on knowing your business/costs/revenue expectations, and b) that if you can't work it out yourself, that the information you've provided is barely 1% of what would be needed for a forum member to give you any kind of meaningful answer.

Richard Weisgrau · Jun 7, 2014

I agree with RhysM. The only way I would ever agree to price per photograph is with a guaranteed minimum that would cover all my direct and indirect expense including my paycheck and taxes to be paid plus a reasonable margin of profit.

Kanz · Jun 7, 2014

RhysM said:
I'm sorry to sound harsh but this is a ridiculous question.

If you are being hired to produce images for a multi-billion dollar project then you must be an established photographer with a good reputation.

If this is the case you must surely realise that a) you should be able to work this out yourself based on knowing your business/costs/revenue expectations, and b) that if you can't work it out yourself, that the information you've provided is barely 1% of what would be needed for a forum member to give you any kind of meaningful answer.

Thanks for the reply, RhysM.

Sorry bout the lack of information given. I'll try to be more precise this time around.

I've been taking construction shots, site progress activities in my country. I charged my client based on per day basis approximately $1500-$2000. Almost all of the shots will be given to them which includes edited ones as some photographs are on the creative side for marketing activities, some are on the construction technical side for the project team. It's a journalism style photography, just myself, my dslr and lenses, no other props (studio lighting, assistant, bouncer, etc) are being used. Well, I could used my price as a basis. But I'm not so sure bout the international rates particularly in the Middle East. I wanted to quote them based on my per day charges, however they would prefer per photo charges, which makes it even more complicated. If there's anything else which I should add, do let me know.

Thanks, RhysM.

Kanz · Jun 7, 2014

Richard Weisgrau said:
I agree with RhysM. The only way I would ever agree to price per photograph is with a guaranteed minimum that would cover all my direct and indirect expense including my paycheck and taxes to be paid plus a reasonable margin of profit.

--
Richard Weisgrau
www.drawnwithlight.com

Hi Richard,

Thank you for the feedbacks. That seems like a good suggestion, based the price on a photograph that could cover the overall cost inclusive of taxes + profit.

Thank you.

Kanz · Jun 7, 2014

ampimagedotcom said:
Kanz said:

Does anyone have a rough idea on the minimum/maximum price per photo?

Click to expand...

To start with, it would depend on what you estimate your basic production costs would be - as that would be the minimum you would need to charge here.

So to help determine what exactly it is you are being asked to produce & then provide them with afterwards, then you would require the following information first:-

1. The type of images: (subject matter, style, look, etc ?).
2. Number of images: (1, 2, 3, 30, 300, etc ?).
3. Location: Middle East.
4. Media use: (see list for breakdown).
5. Period of use: (the number of months or years they need to use the images for ?).
6. Territory of use: (Middle East, USA, English language areas, Worldwide or Internet only ?).

Because only then would you really be able to quote them a fee to meet their requirements - as there are more than 100 different ways to shoot any subject - from quick snap shots through to full production staged shots using larger format camera systems, lights, models, stylists, etc, etc.

cplittleton · Jun 7, 2014

Kanz said:
The project is located in the Middle East and cost a few billion dollars. It is during the summer. Temperature could reach up to 50-60 degrees. Other price factor that needs to be consider would be environmental risk (sandstorm, very dusty condition) and also safety risk during the photography session.

As someone who visits construction sites in the US on a regular basis for my day job, I will tell you that I spend a decent amount of time obtaining / maintaining safety certifications. For me, this probably amounts to 2%-4% of my work hours (40-80 hours annually). Under the rules on one current project, you need +/- 20 hours just to walk on site without supervision. Otherwise, you can only enter the site with with a safety-trained project employee, who will remain with you throughout your visit.

There is also safety gear - some worksites provide it, others require you to purchase it in advance and have it when you arrive, yet others expect you to have basic items and they provide site-specific gear. My employer provides most of my gear - the kit has about $200 (US) of equipment in it.

The rules in the middle east may be different, but you need to figure out what the rules will be for the project site where you'll be shooting and plan your budget to include training costs & hours or limitations of being shadowed during the shoot, and costs for any safety gear.

Consider this when you build your pricing.

CPLittleton

hotdog321 · Jun 7, 2014

This sounds like an exotic gig well beyond my usual assignment, but I've always charged an hourly or day rate plus expenses for construction projects. That odd "per photograph" request makes me uneasy. Who picks up expenses if they only buy a couple of photos, or is that a dumb question? This sounds like a hot, tough, time consuming assignment and I would be darn sure I got paid in the end.

BAK · Jun 7, 2014

I don't think we understand the project.

When you talk about them buying photographs and you talking about them buying several prints of the same image?

And are you expected to take photographs of, perhaps 8 aspects of the project - the north side, the south side, the east side and the west side, a closeup of the entrance, a picture of something mechanical or industrial such as an area of boilers and tanks, and so on - and then they will decide on which of these aspects they like best, and only pay for that shot?

BAK

Kanz · Jun 7, 2014

cplittleton said:
As someone who visits construction sites in the US on a regular basis for my day job, I will tell you that I spend a decent amount of time obtaining / maintaining safety certifications. For me, this probably amounts to 2%-4% of my work hours (40-80 hours annually). Under the rules on one current project, you need +/- 20 hours just to walk on site without supervision. Otherwise, you can only enter the site with with a safety-trained project employee, who will remain with you throughout your visit.

There is also safety gear - some worksites provide it, others require you to purchase it in advance and have it when you arrive, yet others expect you to have basic items and they provide site-specific gear. My employer provides most of my gear - the kit has about $200 (US) of equipment in it.

The rules in the middle east may be different, but you need to figure out what the rules will be for the project site where you'll be shooting and plan your budget to include training costs & hours or limitations of being shadowed during the shoot, and costs for any safety gear.

Consider this when you build your pricing.

CPLittleton

Hi CPLittleton. Thanks for the reply. I'll be entering the site with a safety personal as I wouldn't have the time to obtained a local safety certificate. Just a simple in-house safety briefing before I start the day. I do take construction site regularly in my country, hence I'll be bringing in my own safety gears.

Kanz · Jun 7, 2014

hotdog321 said:
This sounds like an exotic gig well beyond my usual assignment, but I've always charged an hourly or day rate plus expenses for construction projects. That odd "per photograph" request makes me uneasy. Who picks up expenses if they only buy a couple of photos, or is that a dumb question? This sounds like a hot, tough, time consuming assignment and I would be darn sure I got paid in the end.

Hi hotdog321. Thanks for replying. Your applying the similar pricing strategy as me in my country. Daily rate. True, its rather odd based on per photograph request. As I mentioned, it is a multi billion project, for me, the experience / portfolio of photographing the site would be the top priority. It definitely would be a bonus selling point in the future. So, I wouldn't want to pass the given opportunity. I reckon the least to charge, is based on minimum cost return + profit. To set it, I would probably need to gauge myself on how many photographs they would purchase. But then again, is there an industry rate for per photograph price?

Kanz · Jun 7, 2014

BAK said:
I don't think we understand the project.

When you talk about them buying photographs and you talking about them buying several prints of the same image?

And are you expected to take photographs of, perhaps 8 aspects of the project - the north side, the south side, the east side and the west side, a closeup of the entrance, a picture of something mechanical or industrial such as an area of boilers and tanks, and so on - and then they will decide on which of these aspects they like best, and only pay for that shot?

BAK

Hi there BAK. Nope, they be purchasing the softcopy of the photograph, not by number of prints of the same image. Exactly, as I mention, it's a journalism style of photography, you are free to shoot anything on the site. Based on my experience, I would go for overall perspective views and then focus on the main activities or highlights of the projects. At the end of the shooting day, I'll filter the best shots and present to them. Only then, they would evaluate and choose which shot they are interested to purchase.

Richard Thornton · Jun 10, 2014

With most construction progress photos (that's what this sounds like) it is a contract requirement that they furnish these at intervals to the owner. It would be helpful if you could read the specifications to see what exactly is required

If this is just a desire for photos on the contractor's part, then you can be much looser in your approach. Random shooting at targets of opportunity? Sounds great.

Either way, as others have said, you should have an agreement on the minimum number of photos they will accept and base your pricing accordingly. How much of your expense, travel, lodging, are they paying for up front?

Good luck!

chkproductions · Jun 10, 2014

As others have commented; this is an odd request from your client. When you get down to it, they are wanting to treat you as a stock house - pick through all your photos you have taken throughout your time on their premises and then purchase only the ones they want. Just doesn't make sense to me.

At this point I'd just take your normal day rate, then based on your experience, figure how many keeper shots on average that your customers come to expect from a property shoot and divide that into your day rate. So if it's 10 -20 keepers and your day rate is $1500 p/d then charge $100 +/- per image with a contracted minimum of 15 images purchased each day you're there. Keep expenses as a separate line item in your contract.

Just a thought.

ampimagedotcom · Jun 10, 2014

chkproductions said:
So if it's 10 -20 keepers and your day rate is $1500 p/d then charge $100 +/- per image with a contracted minimum of 15 images purchased each day you're there. Keep expenses as a separate line item in your contract.

Line-items are like optional extras - so why would you suggest he keeps his expenses separate here, if they are only wanting to pay him for the use of his work afterwards ?

Because it's not like he can provide them with any images, unless he produces them first - so since his expenses wouldn't be negotiable at that stage, then why present them as such !!

Remember, this is not a 'work made for hire' agreement - it's more like you said, selling 'stock images' - all be it you know who wants to use them and what all they want to use them for, before you produce them.

So it will be all down to the use of your images, as that is what will determine the value to them.

Which means the price per image could vary quite a bit here, depending on how much they want to use them - and so that's what you need to stay focused on and talk to them about - rather than talking to them about yourself and what it's costing you, etc... because I can assure you, they are not remotely interested in you.

Cheers,
Ashley.

ampimage.com

chkproductions · Jun 10, 2014

ampimagedotcom said:
chkproductions said:

So if it's 10 -20 keepers and your day rate is $1500 p/d then charge $100 +/- per image with a contracted minimum of 15 images purchased each day you're there. Keep expenses as a separate line item in your contract.

Click to expand...

Line-items are like optional extras - so why would you suggest he keeps his expenses separate here, if they are only wanting to pay him for the use of his work afterwards ?

Because it's not like he can provide them with any images, unless he produces them first - so since his expenses wouldn't be negotiable at that stage, then why present them as such !!

Remember, this is not a 'work made for hire' agreement - it's more like you said, selling 'stock images' - all be it you know who wants to use them and what all they want to use them for, before you produce them.

So it will be all down to the use of your images, as that is what will determine the value to them.

Which means the price per image could vary quite a bit here, depending on how much they want to use them - and so that's what you need to stay focused on and talk to them about - rather than talking to them about yourself and what it's costing you, etc... because I can assure you, they are not remotely interested in you.

Cheers,
Ashley.

ampimage.com

All valid points. But what if they only buy 1 image and he has incurred out-of-pocket expense (whatever that is - travel, room, food, etc) in acquiring these images? Can the fee charged for that one chosen image pay for that? It was just a suggestion to insure his out-of-pocket is paid for.

Just for clarification, at least in my work, a production budget is made up of line items - day rate, equipment rental, assistants, per diems, travel, hotel, car rental, usage fees, etc. So, for me, lines items are all items necessary to execute a shoot as opposed to just optional extras.

Cheers

chk

BAK · Jun 10, 2014

I've seen product and advertising photographers charge in a manner similar to this.

We needed a photo of Italian money once, for an annual report of the Canadian branch of an Italian bank.

Our creative department (I was working for the world's biggest PR firm) hired a commercial / advertising photographer, who said he would charge $900 for the shot. When I asked the creative director to have a second shot taken (at the same session, same lights, just move the camera) from a different angle, the photographer wanted another $900.

So we just bought the first shot.

IN YOUR CASE: Charge $3,500 for the first shot, plus travel expenses, and $250 for each additional image/frame/picture taken from the same session.

You may need to stay two days, in order to have the sun where you want it, and that may boost your first shot price to $5000.

Convert currency as required, get 50% of the fee in advance.

This is less than they would pay a lawyer for the same amount of time.

BAK

ampimagedotcom · Jun 10, 2014

chkproductions said:
All valid points. But what if they only buy 1 image and he has incurred out-of-pocket expense (whatever that is - travel, room, food, etc) in acquiring these images? Can the fee charged for that one chosen image pay for that?

It is something he really needs to talk to them about, because it may need to.

With Hotels here in Ireland for example, we would normally say the minimum fee would be £2000, for us to produce and then provide them with 5 images for them to use for 1 year in multiple media.

So even if they only wanted to use 1 image afterwards, the fee would still be £2000 - as that's the minimum amount to produce 5 images for them to use as agreed.

So there isn't a maximum as such, but there really needs to be a minimum to cover your basic production costs - which would include not only your photography time but also your other basic costs too... no matter know may images they wanted to use or what all they wanted to use them for, etc.

The reason I say 5, is because that's roughly how many I can produce in a day - so it's like a package deal I'm offering, to cover a full days shooting, plus travelling expenses, travel time, etc, etc.

So add up your basic production costs and divide it by the number of images you realistic think you can produce in 1 day, that they will want to use for say 1 year in 2 media, and then that becomes your starting point - when it comes to negotiating the fee for the use of your work.

chkproductions said:
Just for clarification, at least in my work, a production budget is made up of line items - day rate, equipment rental, assistants, per diems, travel, hotel, car rental, usage fees, etc. So, for me, lines items are all items necessary to execute a shoot as opposed to just optional extras.

If I was agreeing to do 'work made for hire' beforehand, then that's what I'd ask them to pay me for too - as well as any equipment they wanted me to use... over and above my iPhone.

But as most of my clients just want me to produce and then provide them with some images for them to use instead, then I just ask them to pay me for the use of my work afterwards - rather than ask them to pay me to do the work... which will already have been done by the time I invoice them or they pay me for anything.

Which is where the copyright law comes into place - to protect my Rights to how my images are used, after I have produced them - because all they are paying me for, or being asked to pay me for, is for a licence to use my images

--
Cheers,
Ashley.

ampimage.com

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