Warning to EM-1 users :sunshine into EVF can create indeletable blotches, as confirmed by Olympus.

Bobo Hodls · Jun 4, 2014

There was a report that it occurred a 2nd time to one user, even though they were careful. There was another report that CS said the EVF was defective (no mention of sunlight being the cause).

Then there's my story - I used an E-M1 in a snow/ice storm, and blew the buildup away around the lever. Shortly after the lever started being unresponsive. I received a replacement body, all good. I pointedly asked if I could have produced the problem - the response was that the seals are not set up to endure any pressure, so I could have caused it. But then I read where another just had his lever fail intermittently.

CS isn't always up to speed on issues having to do with manufacturing, I've gathered through the years, and I'm not convinced that was CS told you about sunlight was accurate. I do believe leaving the camera in the sun where it could shine into the EVF, or the lens, for a good period isn't advisable, but that's another matter (I can see CS advising not to let it sit in the sun like that, just to provide an answer to the problem they don't quite have all the info on).

Zensu11 · Jun 4, 2014

tt321 said:
luisflorit said:

tt321 said:

babalu said:

I personally believe this to be a serious technical flaw that needs to be addressed by Olympus ASAP.

Click to expand...

I remember that we used magnifying glasses and other lenses in the sun to burn wood when we were children. The same can easily happen with any other optics (viewfinder or front lens of a camera). That's not a technical flaw, that's optics!

Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't understand.

The EVF is never exposed to the light, but get info electronically from the sensor, there's no mirror.

Are you saying that is the sensor itself that was damaged in these user reports? Indeed this will of course happen if exposed badly to the sun, especially with fast primes. Like those poor ants.... I'll probably go to hell.....

L.

Click to expand...

baxters · Jun 4, 2014

Zensu11 said:
Couldn't this also happen to a sensor? Say I put the Rokinon FE lens on my E-P5 and turn on the camera. The FE is probably going to have the sun in the frame and the sensor is on (open) so that I can have live view. Couldn't a lens focus the sunlight onto a sensor?

--
Bobby

It's raining here today, so I can't try it. Take the fisheye outside on a sunny day and see if it can set a piece of newspaper on fire, holding it so it focuses on the dark print.

I tried this with a long zoom last winter, and nothing got hot at all, but our sun is pretty low in January.

joergzielosko · Jun 4, 2014

Zensu11 said:
Couldn't this also happen to a sensor? Say I put the Rokinon FE lens on my E-P5 and turn on the camera. The FE is probably going to have the sun in the frame and the sensor is on (open) so that I can have live view. Couldn't a lens focus the sunlight onto a sensor?

This could even happen if the camera is switched off because the shutter of all mirrorless cameras I know is always open.

In Germany we call it Brennpunkt ;-)

Levan · Jun 4, 2014

Thanks for the info.

I'm using e-m5 for 2 years and e-m1 for a few month. No problems so far, but, than again, mostly I use the viewfinder, especially while shooting in the sun, but I can imagine the situations when that can become a problem.

It would be good to know, what is the acceptable duration of exposure of the vf to the sun? Are we talking about seconds or kinutes? If you get the answer, please, let us know.

timmer350 · Jun 4, 2014

Gregm61 said:
luisflorit said:

Gregm61 said:

babalu said:

I personally believe this to be a serious technical flaw that needs to be addressed by Olympus ASAP.

Click to expand...

I remember that we used magnifying glasses and other lenses in the sun to burn wood when we were children. The same can easily happen with any other optics (viewfinder or front lens of a camera). That's not a technical flaw, that's optics!

Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't understand.

The EVF is never exposed to the light, but get info electronically from the sensor, there's no mirror.

Are you saying that is the sensor itself that was damaged in these user reports? Indeed this will of course happen if exposed badly to the sun, especially with fast primes. Like those poor ants.... I'll probably go to hell.....

Or you meant sun hitting the evf directly from the back??

Click to expand...

Sounds to me like a lot of people use the back LCD to shoot, like there's no viewfinder on the camera, or they use it on a tripod with the rear facing the sun. I never do either, do not expect to encounter the problem and have not seen it with either my now almost two year old E-M5 or several months-old E-M1.

For the DSLR's with no finder shutter Olympus always provided a plastic cap to cover the rear eyepiece so sun could not get in and affect metering if you were using the camera with the rear LCD. Sounds like they need to keep providing those, but for a different reason.

Zensu11 · Jun 4, 2014

baxters said:
Zensu11 said:

Couldn't this also happen to a sensor? Say I put the Rokinon FE lens on my E-P5 and turn on the camera. The FE is probably going to have the sun in the frame and the sensor is on (open) so that I can have live view. Couldn't a lens focus the sunlight onto a sensor?

Click to expand...

Gregm61 · Jun 4, 2014

timmer350 said:
Gregm61 said:

luisflorit said:

timmer350 said:

babalu said:

I personally believe this to be a serious technical flaw that needs to be addressed by Olympus ASAP.

Click to expand...

I remember that we used magnifying glasses and other lenses in the sun to burn wood when we were children. The same can easily happen with any other optics (viewfinder or front lens of a camera). That's not a technical flaw, that's optics!

Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't understand.

The EVF is never exposed to the light, but get info electronically from the sensor, there's no mirror.

Are you saying that is the sensor itself that was damaged in these user reports? Indeed this will of course happen if exposed badly to the sun, especially with fast primes. Like those poor ants.... I'll probably go to hell.....

Or you meant sun hitting the evf directly from the back??

Click to expand...

Sounds to me like a lot of people use the back LCD to shoot, like there's no viewfinder on the camera, or they use it on a tripod with the rear facing the sun. I never do either, do not expect to encounter the problem and have not seen it with either my now almost two year old E-M5 or several months-old E-M1.

For the DSLR's with no finder shutter Olympus always provided a plastic cap to cover the rear eyepiece so sun could not get in and affect metering if you were using the camera with the rear LCD. Sounds like they need to keep providing those, but for a different reason.

Click to expand...

lambert4 · Jun 4, 2014

I have carried my EM-5 EVF up since I bought it in AZ, that's attached with a Spider clip on my pack straps fully exposed to the sun or around my neck exposed to what I would consider an intense desert sun. I have noted on occasion that the body lens combo are beyond hot to the touch (black body) and even had my LCD not respond due to heat. I have no issues with EVF, knock on wood. I would really like to know the depth of this issue. I have enev shot with no eyecup for weeks at a time due to loss of the original style having since swapped to the ep11 when I am home and a Nikon DK-23 eyepiece when I travel since they are pennies on the dollar compared to Olympus eye ups and fit reasonably well.

Anders W · Jun 4, 2014

joergzielosko said:
Zensu11 said:

Couldn't this also happen to a sensor? Say I put the Rokinon FE lens on my E-P5 and turn on the camera. The FE is probably going to have the sun in the frame and the sensor is on (open) so that I can have live view. Couldn't a lens focus the sunlight onto a sensor?

Click to expand...

This could even happen if the camera is switched off because the shutter of all mirrorless cameras I know is always open.

In Germany we call it Brennpunkt ;-)

And to get the Brennpunkt you need to hold the lens at the right Brennweite (focal length). ;-)

When you think about it, I am afraid that the circumstances are exactly such that with the EVF diopter adjustment set for convenient viewing (i.e., such that you appear to look at something at infinity distance), the sun shining in from behind (from infinity) will form a perfect Brennpunkt on the EVF screen.

tt321 · Jun 4, 2014

Anders W said:
joergzielosko said:

Zensu11 said:

Couldn't this also happen to a sensor? Say I put the Rokinon FE lens on my E-P5 and turn on the camera. The FE is probably going to have the sun in the frame and the sensor is on (open) so that I can have live view. Couldn't a lens focus the sunlight onto a sensor?

Click to expand...

This could even happen if the camera is switched off because the shutter of all mirrorless cameras I know is always open.

In Germany we call it Brennpunkt ;-)

Click to expand...

And to get the Brennpunkt you need to hold the lens at the right Brennweite (focal length). ;-)

When you think about it, I am afraid that the circumstances are exactly such that with the EVF diopter adjustment set for convenient viewing (i.e., such that you appear to look at something at infinity distance), the sun shining in from behind (from infinity) will form a perfect Brennpunkt on the EVF screen.

But the camera sensor with lens pointed to the sun would not?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xiafei/

Anders W · Jun 4, 2014

tt321 said:
Anders W said:

joergzielosko said:

Zensu11 said:

Couldn't this also happen to a sensor? Say I put the Rokinon FE lens on my E-P5 and turn on the camera. The FE is probably going to have the sun in the frame and the sensor is on (open) so that I can have live view. Couldn't a lens focus the sunlight onto a sensor?

Click to expand...

This could even happen if the camera is switched off because the shutter of all mirrorless cameras I know is always open.

In Germany we call it Brennpunkt ;-)

Click to expand...

And to get the Brennpunkt you need to hold the lens at the right Brennweite (focal length). ;-)

When you think about it, I am afraid that the circumstances are exactly such that with the EVF diopter adjustment set for convenient viewing (i.e., such that you appear to look at something at infinity distance), the sun shining in from behind (from infinity) will form a perfect Brennpunkt on the EVF screen.

Click to expand...

But the camera sensor with lens pointed to the sun would not?

Without a lens on the body, no. ;-) On the other hand, with a lens and focused on infinity ...

tt321 · Jun 4, 2014

Anders W said:
tt321 said:

Anders W said:

joergzielosko said:

Zensu11 said:

Couldn't this also happen to a sensor? Say I put the Rokinon FE lens on my E-P5 and turn on the camera. The FE is probably going to have the sun in the frame and the sensor is on (open) so that I can have live view. Couldn't a lens focus the sunlight onto a sensor?

Click to expand...

This could even happen if the camera is switched off because the shutter of all mirrorless cameras I know is always open.

In Germany we call it Brennpunkt ;-)

Click to expand...

And to get the Brennpunkt you need to hold the lens at the right Brennweite (focal length). ;-)

When you think about it, I am afraid that the circumstances are exactly such that with the EVF diopter adjustment set for convenient viewing (i.e., such that you appear to look at something at infinity distance), the sun shining in from behind (from infinity) will form a perfect Brennpunkt on the EVF screen.

Click to expand...

But the camera sensor with lens pointed to the sun would not?

Click to expand...

Without a lens on the body, no. ;-) On the other hand, with a lens and focused on infinity ...

Exactly. But the camera would stop down the lens so it's likely F16 or smaller, quite a small magnifier and probably won't kill an ant. If the sensor is reasonably resistant this should not be too bad a problem. They need to put an auto aperture in the rear VF optics...

Anders W · Jun 4, 2014

tt321 said:
Anders W said:

tt321 said:

Anders W said:

joergzielosko said:

Zensu11 said:

Couldn't this also happen to a sensor? Say I put the Rokinon FE lens on my E-P5 and turn on the camera. The FE is probably going to have the sun in the frame and the sensor is on (open) so that I can have live view. Couldn't a lens focus the sunlight onto a sensor?

Click to expand...

This could even happen if the camera is switched off because the shutter of all mirrorless cameras I know is always open.

In Germany we call it Brennpunkt ;-)

Click to expand...

And to get the Brennpunkt you need to hold the lens at the right Brennweite (focal length). ;-)

When you think about it, I am afraid that the circumstances are exactly such that with the EVF diopter adjustment set for convenient viewing (i.e., such that you appear to look at something at infinity distance), the sun shining in from behind (from infinity) will form a perfect Brennpunkt on the EVF screen.

Click to expand...

But the camera sensor with lens pointed to the sun would not?

Click to expand...

Without a lens on the body, no. ;-) On the other hand, with a lens and focused on infinity ...

Click to expand...

Exactly. But the camera would stop down the lens so it's likely F16 or smaller, quite a small magnifier and probably won't kill an ant. If the sensor is reasonably resistant this should not be too bad a problem. They need to put an auto aperture in the rear VF optics...

But if the camera is turned off, or it's a manual lens, it won't stop down.

However, one thing that came to mind here is that sensors, to my knowledge, have "hot mirrors" to protect them from problems of this kind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_mirror

Perhaps the problem with the E-M1 EVF (if at all there really is one of the kind suggested by this thread) is that they forgot to put one of those in or that it isn't good enough to do the job right.

Zensu11 · Jun 4, 2014

In the VF-4s' Owners Manual it states,

"Warnings: Safety Precautions

Do not expose the inside to sunlight directly through the eye lens."

I guess we'll all have to be more careful!

Bobo Hodls · Jun 4, 2014

Zensu11 said:
In the VF-4s' Owners Manual it states,

"Warnings: Safety Precautions

Do not expose the inside to sunlight directly through the eye lens."

Now THAT's the first 'official' statement I've come across, being in print, on the matter. I don't recall seeing that on the VF-2, and if the EVF is significantly different in the latter models. . . Hmmm.

babalu · Jun 4, 2014

I wonder why there is no such warning anywhere in the E-M1 manual for its EVF .

tt321 · Jun 4, 2014

babalu said:
I wonder why there is no such warning anywhere in the E-M1 manual for its EVF .

It's considerably less easy to point the VF of the camera towards the sun than the detachable VF piece.

Michael Meissner · Jun 4, 2014

tt321 said:
babalu said:

I wonder why there is no such warning anywhere in the E-M1 manual for its EVF .

Click to expand...

It's considerably less easy to point the VF of the camera towards the sun than the detachable VF piece.

It depends on how you carry the camera. If you carry on a neck/shoulder strap where the camera sits with the lens to your chest/side you typically won't have too much sunlight coming into the EVF (*)

However, if you carry in a holster or a camera clip that the top faces up, such as the Peak Design's capture pro, the EVF will likely be in the sun when you aren't shooting.

* Note, if you carry the camera against the chest/side and keep the camera on, you should turn off the eye sensor on the camera, as it will think your eye is against the EVF, and keep the camera from going to sleep.

bigley Ling · Jun 4, 2014

Michael Meissner said:
jharvey said:

Certainly if it applies to the other models as well, they should say so, but if not, I wonder what's different in the EM-1 that merits it's own warning.

Click to expand...

E-M1 has a 2.36MP viewfinder (same as VF-4) while E-M5, E-M10, and Stylus1 have a 1.44MP viewfinder (same as VF-2). However, I have talked to one user who had blotches on his E-M5 and sent it in, and was starting to develop them on the E-M1.

Speaking as somebody who just sent sent his 3 month old refurbished E-M5 in for viewfinder problems (it went extremely dim when on vacation in Florida), I hope I'm not having to send in the camera every couple of months for repair.

Agree, that plus the larger magnification of the LCD in viewfinder may make it more susceptible to this issue when light enters the view finder and concentrates on these delicate high resolution EVFs.

That being said, the Fuji XT1 also has a higher resolution EVF, and an nice large magnified EVF, Does anyone know if this issue occurs on the camera as well?

Warning to EM-1 users :sunshine into EVF can create indeletable blotches, as confirmed by Olympus.

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