why doesn't S50 get all the credits it deserves

Stevieboroboy wrote:
Would I have a 4mp? No way. For an
extra$50 it's like having an extra telephoto lens
Yah, that's why you have a 3X Optical zoom.......just like the s400.

You picked the s50 over the s400 just because it offered you an extra 20% in picture size? Uh.. the 4MP cameras are designed to print LARGE pics. I ran the s50 with the s400 last week and we found NO visible differences in picture quality other than the 20% pixel margin.

You're simply opted for slightly larger file sizes. It's a simple generalisation but that's about right. The s50 is FAR from compact. And my best friend has very large hands and handles the IXUS/Digital Elph series quite nimbly.

My s400 is half the size of the s50 yet takes a pic comparable to the G3.

That's why I said "No" to the s50 a week before purchase. And a wise decision it was.

Cheers!

--
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
 
Stevieboroboy wrote:
Would I have a 4mp? No way. For an
extra$50 it's like having an extra telephoto lens
Yah, that's why you have a 3X Optical zoom.......just like the s400.
You picked the s50 over the s400 just because it offered you an
extra 20% in picture size? Uh.. the 4MP cameras are designed to
print LARGE pics. I ran the s50 with the s400 last week and we
found NO visible differences in picture quality other than the 20%
pixel margin.

You're simply opted for slightly larger file sizes. It's a simple
generalisation but that's about right. The s50 is FAR from
compact. And my best friend has very large hands and handles the
IXUS/Digital Elph series quite nimbly.

My s400 is half the size of the s50 yet takes a pic comparable to
the G3.

That's why I said "No" to the s50 a week before purchase. And a
wise decision it was.

Cheers!

--
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
I find it interesting that some owners of the S400 try very hard to put down other models, while justifying their purchase of the S400 and are especially envious of the S50.

Well, my friend, the S50 generally takes better pictures than the S400, has an extra megapixel (big difference when doing serious crops and 8x10 prints), has the manual controls that the S400 lacks (and I couldn't do without) and fits my hands better than the S400. The S400 and the S50 are both fine cameras but can you figure out which one I said "No" to?

Sky
 
You picked the s50 over the s400 just because it offered you an
extra 20% in picture size?
The "extra 20% in picture size" you mention is more accurately termed a 26% increase in resolution.
Uh.. the 4MP cameras are designed to
print LARGE pics. I ran the s50 with the s400 last week and we
found NO visible differences in picture quality other than the 20%
pixel margin.
The S50 is a higher-resolution camera. It captures more detail, and it allows for more cropping later. And given an uncropped image, the 5MP camera is capable of printing LARGER pics without any kind of interpolation.
You're simply opted for slightly larger file sizes. It's a simple
generalisation but that's about right.
No, it is not. A 26% increase in resolution may not be earth-shatteringly huge, but it's not exactly trivial, either.
The s50 is FAR from
compact. And my best friend has very large hands and handles the
IXUS/Digital Elph series quite nimbly.
Far from compact? Certainly a matter of opinion, and obviously, for many people its size is not an issue. As long as I can carry it through a belt loop, I'm generally happy, and my S30 (which is the same size as the S50) handles this quite nicely.
My s400 is half the size of the s50 yet takes a pic comparable to
the G3.
Again, no it doesn't. It takes a very nice but lower-resolution pic that may or may not be good enough for a given photographer's needs. You also fail to mention that the S400 lacks real manual control, and consequently, can not even get a picture in many situations where a G3 or even an S50 can. Need shutter priority? Not on S400. Need aperture priority? Not on S400. Need full manual control? Forget it. Manual focus? Nope.

Now as much as it sounds like I'm trashing the S400, I'm not. I happen to think it is a great little point and shoot camera. But it is simply not in the same league as an S-series (meaning S30 thru S50) or G-series Canon in many respects, nor is it intended to be.
That's why I said "No" to the s50 a week before purchase. And a
wise decision it was.
I'm glad you are happy with your purchase. Why not let others be happy with theirs?

--
Brian
Gallery: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/My%20Web%20Gallery/index.htm
 
Marco Nero wrote:

The "extra 20% in picture size" you mention is more accurately
termed a 26% increase in resolution.
The S50 is a higher-resolution camera. It captures more detail,
and it allows for more cropping later. And given an uncropped
image, the 5MP camera is capable of printing LARGER pics without
any kind of interpolation.
Actually more accurately termed a measely inch or inch and half in print size at the same dpi. 4mp = 8 x 10.5", 5mp = 9x12". Hardly anyting to get excited about. Yep, Larger about about an Inch. I have nothing against 5MP but is certainly isn't worth upgrading for a single MP.
Far from compact? Certainly a matter of opinion, and obviously,
for many people its size is not an issue. As long as I can carry
it through a belt loop, I'm generally happy, and my S30 (which is
the same size as the S50) handles this quite nicely.
You can play this game all day long. Many people think the g3 is pocketable and portable and a vastly better camera. I happen to think the S400 is vastly more pocketable than the Sxx series, and takes pictures that are indistinguishable (from the middle of the line 4MP version).

The fact is the S400, Sxx, both take fantastic images. Beyond that it is ergos and interface. The G3 has real photographic advantages with a much better lens.
My s400 is half the size of the s50 yet takes a pic comparable to
the G3.
Again, no it doesn't. It takes a very nice but lower-resolution
pic that may or may not be good enough for a given photographer's
needs. You also fail to mention that the S400 lacks real manual
control, and consequently, can not even get a picture in many
situations where a G3 or even an S50 can. Need shutter priority?
Not on S400. Need aperture priority? Not on S400. Need full manual
control? Forget it. Manual focus? Nope.
Aside from the imaginary rants of people who don't know how to use an S400 there exist no such limitation. While A g3 has real advantages over the S50 and S400 in terms of the conditions under which the shot can be taken(superior lens), no such limitation exists between the sxx and S400. Please contrive the situation where I can't get the shot with my S400. Have you ever taken this shot?
Now as much as it sounds like I'm trashing the S400, I'm not. I
happen to think it is a great little point and shoot camera. But
it is simply not in the same league as an S-series (meaning S30
thru S50) or G-series Canon in many respects, nor is it intended to
be.
"Not in the same league" sounds like you are trashing it to me. It has fewer controls, but all the ones that is has are SUFFICIENT to control exposure in ANY condition. The only way you could tell an S45 image from an S400 image is to read the EXIF. That puts them in the same league.

I returned an s30 after a couple of days. I wasn't that crazy about the size, shape or interface. This is highly personal choice. Nobody should try to argue against someone elses ergonomic or interface choice.

I see a lot of Sxx owners continually trying to put down the S400(toy camera, P&S camera, stylish camera, boutique camera). Why is that? It is an incredibly capable photographic tool that takes images the equal of the S45.

Peter
 
Brian G. wrote:
The S50 is a higher-resolution camera. It captures more detail,
and it allows for more cropping later.
When your prints exceed 12 inches, you shouldn't be using an s-series anyway... but look below 12 inches and both the s400 and the s50 are the "same colour". You can't even see the difference between two identical prints. You have more issues with vignetting and lens abberation as well as noise than I do too.

Once again, the difference between two cameras exhibiting a 1 megapixel threshold difference is marginal and "uindistinguishable to the average viewer". If you're in the printing business, why pick an S-series? If you like manual controls, why pick an s-series with an f2.8 lens? G-series is where it's at!
A 26% increase in resolution may not be
earth-shatteringly huge, but it's not exactly trivial, either.
It is unless you print larger than 12 inch prints. Anyone here do that with an s-series camera regularly? If so, why?????
The s50 is FAR from
compact.
Far from compact? Certainly a matter of opinion, and obviously,
for many people its size is not an issue. As long as I can carry
it through a belt loop, I'm generally happy, and my S30 (which is
the same size as the S50) handles this quite nicely.
This site describes the s50 as "Brick-like". Many posters claim that they rarely carry it with them and some even said they had bought s400s as a carry everywhere camera and were thinking of selling their s50s

.The s30 is a great camera. But then again, three of my fellow designers just sold their s30s to buy two s400s and a G3. Why? Are they Tards?
My s400 is half the size of the s50 yet takes a pic comparable to
the G3.
Again, no it doesn't. It takes a very nice but lower-resolution
pic that may or may not be good enough for a given photographer's
needs.
The review on this site claims that "it would be difficult to distinguish the S400 image from one taken by the G3" in relation to standard shots by the s400.

You also fail to mention that the S400 lacks real manual
control, and consequently, can not even get a picture in many
situations where a G3 or even an S50 can.
If you wanted a digital with full manual control, you should have forked out for a G3. The difference between the G series and the s50 is VERY considerable.

I get all the focus targets I aim for. I also get the right exposures etc when needed. The camera does it all when in doubt. Shoots through glass and lands me the right exposures. I lock the ISO at 50 for every shot for maximum clarity. The s50 is incapable of taking the majority of low light and natural light shots that the G3 is famed for. Do not rate the s50 as being worthy of G3/G5 status because the f2.0 lens on the G-series is the real magic. You simply have a point-and-shoot with an average lens and average zoom that is identical to mine. Try manually focusing your camera without a tripod and see what happens when your body moves the camera out of alignment prior to the shot.
Now as much as it sounds like I'm trashing the S400, I'm not. I
happen to think it is a great little point and shoot camera. But
it is simply not in the same league as an S-series (meaning S30
thru S50) or G-series Canon in many respects, nor is it intended to
be.
If the s400 takes a pic that even a pro cannot distinguish from and "average" one taken with a G3, then I'd say your argument: that it's not in the same league, is baseless.
I'm glad you are happy with your purchase. Why not let others be
happy with theirs?
I'm simply replying to the opening poster who's statement and thread title was: "Why doesn't the s50 get all the credits it deserves?" I'm NOT ragging on s50 owners but I they in turn, should NOT rag on the s400 as being less capable, aside from the manual selection.

My reply to the poster is that the s50 does not warrant any credit beyond an extra megapixel. Therefore, no credit is required and no need for a review beyond the s45.

Note that I HAVE recommended the s50 to others here. Don't think I'm whining of complaining.

Cheers again,
--
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
 
Nice call, Peter.

You covered the bases and pretty much summed it up. The s50 is VERY desirable but as you say, it's in the same league as the s400 with pretty mush the same results from a much larger body.

Cheers!
--
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
 
When the s400 and the s50 were announced, I decided that I would
purchase both. Money was no object. But then I noticed things...
the s50 had that pesky sliding door and slower operational times...
and it was a brick to carry.... described as a "brick" even on this
site. Finally, I knew that if I wanted a compact fully manual
digital, I'd need a G-series because of the much faster f2.0 lens
and better design allowing add-on lens acessories etc. The
clincher for me was actually the crappy LCD perspex cover which
scratches like my cat on the end of the bed at 6am.

The s50 is a fantastic camera but it's just an s45 with an extra
Megapickle. Something that's been reviewed in-depth here before.

The s400 has soooooo many differences between it at the earlier
Digital Elph models other than yet another Megapickle of info.
What exactly? I don't see a lot of many new features over say the S230. 3x optical zoom, center weighter exposure and the "my camera settings." Oh plus the mega-pickle. It's nice but not a big jump, more so considering is a tiny itty bit bigger and can't do 640x480 movies.
Much more manual control and menu driven features as well as a
I would like to know what kind of manual control... I can only think of the center weight exposure. Maybe I missed something....?
quicker startup time and many more options for the owner than
before. Since I knew I could take as good a pic with the s400 as
I could with the s50, I chose to sacrifice a couple of manual
settings on the s50 for the ease of use and tiny size of the s400.
[stuff del]
Cheers all!
  • Raist
 
Aside from the imaginary rants of people who don't know how to use
an S400 there exist no such limitation. While A g3 has real
advantages over the S50 and S400 in terms of the conditions under
which the shot can be taken(superior lens), no such limitation
exists between the sxx and S400. Please contrive the situation
where I can't get the shot with my S400. Have you ever taken this
shot?
Hi Peter,

For now, let me just respond to this part of your post, as it is late. The lack of manual controls limits creative picture taking, there is no doubt about it. As for "contriving situations where [you] can't get the shot with [your] S400," I will do that. The quickest example to come to mind is any situation where you want to creatively limit your depth of field. Without aperture priority, perhaps the most important of the three factors affecting depth of field is unavailable to you. Isolated subjects against blurred backgrounds will not easily be achieved (if acheived at all) on an S400. In fact, due to the small sensor sizes on consumer digital cameras, it's hard enough to get this effect even when you do have aperture priority. If I'm wrong about the S400 in this regard, please show me examples. I'll post some examples of my own to show you what, exactly, I'm talking about. These aren't meant to be wonderful pieces of art, but just to illustrate my point. All were taken with my S30.







Another situation that comes to mind is macro shots. I use close up lenses with my S30 to do macrophotography. This requires manual focusing, and aperture control to get the desired depth of field (depth of field is almost non-existant at really high magnifications, and therfore you want to shoot at at wide-open apertures). So even if you used additional lenses on an S400, I doubt you would be able to take these shots: (these are full-frame, uncropped)







There are other situations that come to mind as well. For example, you can control the width of star-trails and firework trails by adjusting aperture. That is not possible on an S400. And fewer shutter speed choices would limit your picture-taking in low light conditions regardless... I could go on, but I think this is enough.

So... I think that not having aperture priority is really the biggest limitation, probably followed by no manual focusing as a close second. To directly answer the actual question you asked in your post "Have you ever taken this shot", yes, I believe I have. If I am wrong, please post some pics and show me.

Thanks.
Brian

--
Brian
Gallery: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/My%20Web%20Gallery/index.htm
 
When your prints exceed 12 inches, you shouldn't be using an
s-series anyway... but look below 12 inches and both the s400 and
the s50 are the "same colour". You can't even see the difference
between two identical prints. You have more issues with vignetting
and lens abberation as well as noise than I do too.
I use an S30, which is among the lowest noise consumer digicams on the market. So much so that it even gives me ISO 800 to play with. Obviously, I care about much more than megapixel count. But you do happen to be ignoring the fact that more megapixel also allows for more cropping, not just larger prints. While I personally try to do all of my cropping before I take the shot, this is important to a lot of people.
Once again, the difference between two cameras exhibiting a 1
megapixel threshold difference is marginal and "uindistinguishable
to the average viewer". If you're in the printing business, why
pick an S-series? If you like manual controls, why pick an
s-series with an f2.8 lens? G-series is where it's at!
The G-series lens is so full of CA at 2.0 it isn't worth it to me. I picked an S30 because I was able to get one for $318.00 back when they were selling for $400-450.00. It was the least expensive digital camera available to me at that time that offered full manual control. I don't regret the purchase one bit.
It is unless you print larger than 12 inch prints. Anyone here do
that with an s-series camera regularly? If so, why?????
I can't speak for anyone but myself. My largest regularly printed size with my S30 is 8x10.
This site describes the s50 as "Brick-like". Many posters claim
that they rarely carry it with them and some even said they had
bought s400s as a carry everywhere camera and were thinking of
selling their s50s
They apparently care more for conveneice than for picture-taking. That is their choice, and it is a perfectly reasonable one for some. Why do we all have to agree with that, though?
The s30 is a great camera. But then again, three of my fellow
designers just sold their s30s to buy two s400s and a G3. Why?
Are they Tards?
Not knowing them it would be tough to say. ;)
The review on this site claims that "it would be difficult to
distinguish the S400 image from one taken by the G3" in relation to
standard shots by the s400.
I believe that is true. Let me point out two things. 1. "Difficult" is not "impossible". 2. standard shots are not what I care about. That G3 will certainly be able to take pics in situations where the S400 can not.
If you wanted a digital with full manual control, you should have
forked out for a G3. The difference between the G series and the
s50 is VERY considerable.
Really? You profess to know what I should've bought? At the time I bought my camera, and even now, you could not touch a G3 for anywhere near $318.00. In addition, I happen to like the size of the S-series. And while it may not be a G-series, most of the things seen as functional limitations can be overcome. For example, I can and do use add on filters/lenses (wide-angle, teleconverter, infrared, closeup, etc.). And although the S-series has no hot shoe, you can use slave flash, for example.
I get all the focus targets I aim for. I also get the right
exposures etc when needed. The camera does it all when in doubt.
Shoots through glass and lands me the right exposures. I lock the
ISO at 50 for every shot for maximum clarity. The s50 is
incapable of taking the majority of low light and natural light
shots that the G3 is famed for.
First of all, I'm not sure I agree. But I wlil say that my S30 has taken low light pics without flash in situations that few other cameras have. Sensitive CCDs are every bit as important as fast lenses.
Do not rate the s50 as being
worthy of G3/G5 status because the f2.0 lens on the G-series is the
real magic.
I never said that at all. But the CA on the fast side of that G-series lens is ridiculous, and Canon should really work on getting rid of it. Read people's posts on these forums about it. G-series owners themselves have said they don't shoot that wide due to the CA.
You simply have a point-and-shoot with an average lens
and average zoom that is identical to mine.
No, I have a camera that offers extremely low noise, full manual control, and an easy-to-swallow price.
Try manually focusing
your camera without a tripod and see what happens when your body
moves the camera out of alignment prior to the shot.
Actually, I do it all the time. If you'd like to see examples, I invite you to have a look at my web gallery. All images were taken with my S30 The link is at the bottom of this post in the signature.
If the s400 takes a pic that even a pro cannot distinguish from and
"average" one taken with a G3, then I'd say your argument: that
it's not in the same league, is baseless.
Obviously, I disagreee. As I said, the real point is that that G3 will get a shot in more challenging situations than the S400 will.
I'm NOT ragging on s50 owners but I they in turn,
should NOT rag on the s400 as being less capable, aside from the
manual selection.
The S400 is less capable, for that very reason.
Note that I HAVE recommended the s50 to others here. Don't think
I'm whining of complaining.
I'm not thinking that at all. And along those same lines, I have recommend the S400 to friends who were looking for a small, rugged point and shoot that takes some damn good quality pics. It is simply my contention that the limitations imposed by a lack of manual control place it in another category when compared to an S or G-series camera.

Regards,
--
Brian
Gallery: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/My%20Web%20Gallery/index.htm
 
Brian G. wrote:
For now, let me just respond to this part of your post, as it is
late. The lack of manual controls limits creative picture taking,
there is no doubt about it. As for "contriving situations where
[you] can't get the shot with [your] S400," I will do that. The
quickest example to come to mind is any situation where you want to
creatively limit your depth of field. Without aperture priority,
perhaps the most important of the three factors affecting depth of
field is unavailable to you. Isolated subjects against blurred
backgrounds will not easily be achieved (if acheived at all) on an
S400.
Well then... here's my stupid Pelican. He ate a bit of chicken so I'd call that "canniballism". Within minutes of taking this pic, a small dog took him on and lost.
http://www.pbase.com/image/16216556

Another situation that comes to mind is macro shots. I use close
up lenses with my S30 to do macrophotography. This requires manual
focusing, and aperture control to get the desired depth of field
(depth of field is almost non-existant at really high
magnifications, and therfore you want to shoot at at wide-open
apertures). So even if you used additional lenses on an S400, I
doubt you would be able to take these shots: (these are full-frame,
uncropped)
If I am wrong, please post some pics and show me.
Flower with MINOR hue adjustment. Dandilion with Macro feature activated whilst s400 was on mini tripod... flower was 1.6 inches across.
http://www.pbase.com/image/16177846

My telephone... I'd say there's some Depth of Field here. No Close-up lens either.
http://www.pbase.com/image/15927889

Hibiscus from my Mother's Garden (untouched). Technically, this pic sucks but shows depth of field. I hadn't learned to turn off the A.I. Focus at this point.
http://www.pbase.com/image/15888792

I'd post nicer examples but I ran out of bandwidth... must pay for more now at Pbase. These pics were taken in my first three days with the s400.

May I compliment you on your Green Snake and the wasp....ABSOLUTELY STUNNING. I REALLY like the snake. That's a spectacular picture. I have a lot of respect for the s30.

Regards,
--
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
 
I now understand your position and apologise for causing you offence. Your points on all cameras are quite correct (which you underlined in your last post).

Kind Regards,
--
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
 
I felt the same way while giving away my Dimage 7 and buying the S50. I first tried S400, and it did not even compare with the S50. (but of course it was much lighter, and I could have bought it happily too). S50 is an excellent camera, same as S45, but much higher resolution. Who says +1MP is just a few pixels. It's just 1,000,000 of them.
A 5 Megapixel camera, with excellent lens (except at telephoto
aparture is slow), which is very handy because of its relatively
small size, etc.

It's not even reviewed by dpreview.com .(I mean a complete review.
There are bits and pieces everywhere, but not a full review). They
have S45, but resolution values are not even comparable, although
S45 is probably one of the best cameras in the 4MP classification.
S50 has a

Horizontal LPH 1425 1650
Vertical LPH 1300 1600
5° Diagonal LPH # + 1000 resolution. One of the best in compact 5
MP cameras (Values are found in another camera's comparison figures
in dpreview.com.

And the camera is very competitively priced. (compared to some
other Canon cameras too)

I own Fuji S2 Pro, and my second camera is the S50, because of its
size. I gave away my Minolta Dimage 7 (another 5 MP camera) and
Pentax Optio 4XX (a 4 MP camera, not comparable in picture quality
with any other cameras that I own) for Canon S50. It's an excellent
second camera for me.

Despite these, people are more interested in S400, G3, S45, G5 etc.
Why is this? Is Canon not so much interested in this model?
I too have a S50 and a 7i but the 7i can't compete with the S50.
The photo quality staggers me. The resolution makes a big
difference. I do a lot of macro shots and when I go to "actual
pixels" on photoshop the picture balloons to a freaky size but with
no degretion of picture. Would I have a 4mp? No way. For an
extra$50 it's like having an extra telephoto lens! Also I have big
hands so the S400 would not do. Coming from a 7i though the S50
feels tiny.
Regards
Steve
 
S400 takes excellent pictures. S50 does the same with higher resolution. You should have seen that easily..

It does not mean that S50 suits all conditions better than S400 or the best camera for everyone. For example S400 is easier to carry, takes excellent pictures, and I was about to buy it when S50 was announced.

But facts are facts. S50 just takes with higher resolution, and in fact much better than competitors most models, including the Minolta Dimage 7 (another 5 MP) which I gave away for S50.

File sizes are also very acceptable. Better than most competing %MP cameras on the market, while the images are usually better.
Stevieboroboy wrote:
Would I have a 4mp? No way. For an
extra$50 it's like having an extra telephoto lens
Yah, that's why you have a 3X Optical zoom.......just like the s400.
You picked the s50 over the s400 just because it offered you an
extra 20% in picture size? Uh.. the 4MP cameras are designed to
print LARGE pics. I ran the s50 with the s400 last week and we
found NO visible differences in picture quality other than the 20%
pixel margin.

You're simply opted for slightly larger file sizes. It's a simple
generalisation but that's about right. The s50 is FAR from
compact. And my best friend has very large hands and handles the
IXUS/Digital Elph series quite nimbly.

My s400 is half the size of the s50 yet takes a pic comparable to
the G3.

That's why I said "No" to the s50 a week before purchase. And a
wise decision it was.

Cheers!

--
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
 
The S400 is an excellent P&S camera and if you do not want to progress with your hobby and explore new realms with manual controls you won't be dissappointed. Though I have found that once you get into diggy photography you get bolder and more curious. You soon out grow your camera.

The S50 on the other hand lets you explore the possibilities of photography with both manual control and the extra mp. If wern't 6.1 and 220 pounds I might have looked at the s400 but that aint the case. The small size of the S50 took some time to get used to and I can't understand the term "brick like" as it feels really light to me. I think the S400 is more suited to the smaller more delicate hands of a lady than a grown man.

Another truth is that I must try at least 3 manual modes while I go out with my camera and I couldn't do without them. When you use auto mode then you are leaving it into the lap of the gods. Hoping for a good shot.

It is wrong to put the S400 in the same category of the S50 or even G series it is more likely to be pitted against the early easyshare Kodak line (all be it far better quality)

So there you have it, if you aren't bothered about learning about being photographer buy the S400. If you want to explore the science of photography and the possibilities it holds buy the S50.

I hope this helps
Steve
 
People: I bring you something truesly special today:
Stevieboroboy wrote:
I think the S400 is more suited to the smaller more
delicate hands of a lady than a grown man.
So, you're saying the s400 is for girls? That's EXACTLY what you are stating since I have already pointed out that my-large handed friend uses an older Digital Elph without concern. I, on the other hand, could mention that the s50 (being larger than the s400) is better suited to a ladies handbag. (but of course, I won't). And you see yourself as a "grown man" after that comment? Oh, no......!
Another truth is that I must try at least 3 manual modes while I go
out with my camera and I couldn't do without them.
Sounding a little co-dependant here, aren't we? What's this "Truth" thing? And why can't you take a good shot without all the fancy modes. Doesn't a poor artist blame his tools anymore?
When you use auto mode then you are leaving it into the lap of the gods.
Hoping for a good shot.
Uh, I never use Auto. I always switch to manual so I can determine my own ISO and white balance etc. I also make it a point to keep my things out of the laps of gods.
It is wrong to put the S400 in the same category of the S50 or even
G series it is more likely to be pitted against the early easyshare
Kodak line (all be it far better quality)
That's a bald faced lie. So much so that it shows you don't even know how abysmally poor the Kodaks are in comparison to Canon's compacts. Even Kodak's own rep told a gathering of sales staff (including myself) that "Our cameras were cr@p and were designed to make it easy for people who already had a cr@p point-and-shoot 35mm and wanted to go digital"
So there you have it, if you aren't bothered about learning about
being photographer buy the S400.
Clearly, you are too arrogant to deserve the humble s50. You also state clearly that "photographers" wouldn't use the s400. Funny, because nearly every Pro-photographer I spoke to last month with a D60 or a D1s was actually carrying an s400 for a carry-everywhere backup camera. As I mentioned in another post here a while back, a single s400 shot earned me a year's pay in May. Funny that. Perhaps I pray to the god-of -autoexposure you mentioned earlier. Dude, he paid off big time!
If you want to explore the
science of photography and the possibilities it holds buy the S50.
If photography were a science, you'd be arguing the merits of a Box Brownie over a 1Ds
I hope this helps
Oh, it does... heh, heh. Makes things very clear to myself and many s400 owners how much you loath them . I reinstate my Gump comment from earlier. All other apologies are rescinded.

Cheers all! Entertaining, eh?
--
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
 
Thanks... I meant it.

I shall no apologise for my recent comment to Stevieboroboy who goads me so. I'm sure you would agree that his latest post has earned my guile.

Who is he and why is he so aggresively dense?

Regards,

--
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
 
Obvously,s50 is a great camera but given that there's little difference compared to S45 it's not worth Phil's time.Afterall,there are many entirely new cameras for Phil to review(such as Sony's V1) so I doubt he has time for a review of S50.
 
Marco,

First of all, thanks for the compliments regarding the pics I posted. I appreciate it. Along those same lines, I have to say right up front- I like the shots you took, and the pelican shot in particular is outstanding.

I think that this thread is really not going to go anywhere else, so I am go try to just make a few general comments/observations here. The pictures you responded with are nice. But I do not think they represent the situations I had in mind. Perhaps that is my fault- maybe I should have more explicit. For example, isolating a subject against a blurred background. It happens to be relatively easy to get a blurred background when shooting close to your subject and when the background itself is far away. A more telling shot would have been to take the pelican from farther away, with the backround pelicans closer to your subject. In any event, if you wanted to change that background blur, to blur it to a different degree, how would you go about it with your S400? The background is blurred due to the nature of the shot itself, but not neccesarily due to your creative vision.

As for the other macro shots you took, I would say that they exhibit shallow depth of field, which would be expected. In the telephone shot, for example, only the middle set of buttons is sharp. If you wanted to, could you take that picture again at the same distance and get all of those button in sharp focus? Or all of the flower, rather than just the pistil and stamens? This is difficult, but at least possible with aperture control. There is a pic on my web gallery of a 3 in jester figurine that is an ok example of this.

And you never responded to my comment regarding firework/star trails. You can use aperture control to adjust the width of bright lines on dark backgrounds in photographs such as those two. That is simply not possible without aperture control. You will get what the camera decides to give you.

And the ability to focus manually is very important. For one thing, if you really know your camera and its lens system, you can set focus to the hyperfocal distance for maximum possible depth of field. This will allow you to get not only, say, the fireworks at infinity, but also the people 5 feet away in focus. Or to take another, more practical example, it allows more foreground focus in landscape shots. Another great situation for manually setting focus distance is during indoor party shots, for example, or any place quick shots are required/desired. Since much of the shutter lag in digital cameras is due to focusing, you can set focus at a distance that will give you a good depth of focus, say 3 feet to infinity. Now shutter lag is almost non-existant, and the same camera can be used like a point an shoot to quickly capture a moment. Then there's always the fact that therer are plenty of low contrast situations where auto-focus can't get a lock, manual is pretty handy here.

Ok, I'm going to try to end this from my end. To sum up- the pics you posted are nice, and the S400 is a very capable camera. However, it is my contention that the lack of manual control is a severe limitation for some of us. For me, and for many, a greater number of options is preferable to ferwer options.

Both cameras are nice. I think they serve different needs.

Regards,
--
Brian
Gallery: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/My%20Web%20Gallery/index.htm
 
The S400 is an excellent P&S camera and if you do not want to
progress with your hobby and explore new realms with manual
controls you won't be dissappointed. Though I have found that once
you get into diggy photography you get bolder and more curious. You
soon out grow your camera.

The S50 on the other hand lets you explore the possibilities of
photography with both manual control and the extra mp. If wern't
6.1 and 220 pounds I might have looked at the s400 but that aint
the case. The small size of the S50 took some time to get used to
and I can't understand the term "brick like" as it feels really
light to me. I think the S400 is more suited to the smaller more
delicate hands of a lady than a grown man.

Another truth is that I must try at least 3 manual modes while I go
out with my camera and I couldn't do without them. When you use
auto mode then you are leaving it into the lap of the gods. Hoping
for a good shot.

It is wrong to put the S400 in the same category of the S50 or even
G series it is more likely to be pitted against the early easyshare
Kodak line (all be it far better quality)

So there you have it, if you aren't bothered about learning about
being photographer buy the S400. If you want to explore the
science of photography and the possibilities it holds buy the S50.

I hope this helps
Steve
so to sum it up the s400 is for stupid girls and the s50 is for creative men
 

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