"L"s Do you really need one? An Observation

Please note that i did say clearly "in my opine"....I liken it the classic stereophile who listens to his equipment not the music.
Provocative..maybe...It's just in my opine that most of these forum
followers are techno/hardware freaks and its their "toys" they
thrive on.Not the results as it should be.
It is one thing making an observation for the benefit of the
newbies (so they don't get L fever too early), it is quite another
to call most of the forum followers "techno/hardware freaks". I
gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were not deliberately
starting an argument but I am not too sure now....I follow this
forum, I have very nice gear and I enjoy playing with my toys...but
I also take nice pictures so you shouldn't tar most people with one
brush...But I will defend to the death your right to say what you
said.

--
Arthur Li
http://www.pbase.com/akl

The camera is only one of the photographer's tools ....
--
Sils...

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
 
Provocative..maybe...It's just in my opine that most of these forum
followers are techno/hardware freaks and its their "toys" they
thrive on.Not the results as it should be.
It is one thing making an observation for the benefit of the
newbies (so they don't get L fever too early), it is quite another
to call most of the forum followers "techno/hardware freaks". I
gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were not deliberately
starting an argument but I am not too sure now....I follow this
forum, I have very nice gear and I enjoy playing with my toys...but
I also take nice pictures so you shouldn't tar most people with one
brush...But I will defend to the death your right to say what you
said.

--
Arthur Li
http://www.pbase.com/akl

The camera is only one of the photographer's tools ....
--
Sils...

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
--
Arthur Li
http://www.pbase.com/akl

The camera is only one of the photographer's tools ....
 
Provocative..maybe...It's just in my opine that most of these forum
followers are techno/hardware freaks and its their "toys" they
thrive on.Not the results as it should be.
It is one thing making an observation for the benefit of the
newbies (so they don't get L fever too early), it is quite another
to call most of the forum followers "techno/hardware freaks". I
gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were not deliberately
starting an argument but I am not too sure now....I follow this
forum, I have very nice gear and I enjoy playing with my toys...but
I also take nice pictures so you shouldn't tar most people with one
brush...But I will defend to the death your right to say what you
said.

--
Arthur Li
http://www.pbase.com/akl

The camera is only one of the photographer's tools ....
--
Sils...

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
--
Arthur Li
http://www.pbase.com/akl

The camera is only one of the photographer's tools ....
--
Sils...

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
 
Provocative..maybe...It's just in my opine that most of these forum
followers are techno/hardware freaks and its their "toys" they
thrive on.Not the results as it should be.
It is one thing making an observation for the benefit of the
newbies (so they don't get L fever too early), it is quite another
to call most of the forum followers "techno/hardware freaks". I
gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were not deliberately
starting an argument but I am not too sure now....I follow this
forum, I have very nice gear and I enjoy playing with my toys...but
I also take nice pictures so you shouldn't tar most people with one
brush...But I will defend to the death your right to say what you
said.

--
Arthur Li
http://www.pbase.com/akl

The camera is only one of the photographer's tools ....
--
Sils...

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
I am a Pro who shoots between 35- 45 weddings a season. I have shot with both "L" glass and non "L" glass and I can tell you there is a distinct difference in the quality of the final product. Please understand I had to see this for myself before I believed it. I was like you and thought I could "get by" with non "L".... (truth is, if I wasn't doing this professional, I probably would opt for non "L" for the money difference. But it all boils down to what you are going to do with it. Are there guys out there who have an "L" lens just to say they have it??? SURE

In my case, if it was your daughter or sisters wedding I was photographing, wouldent you feel better knowing I am using the best of the best to insure the quality of the job??? Just my thoughts....
Frank
 
just like you have the right to say what you want. I'm glad you're happy like the "techno/harware freaks". Thank God you're flying so much above that low crowd.
For those who ask "What lens should I ....."
There is lots of very good glass... by many makers... in all types
and sizes out there that are NOT "Ls". Anyone in these "digital
days" with a reasonably good working knowledge of PS or PS
Elements2 (or similar) can produce a finished product(photo) of
outstanding excellence.Most could not tell if the original shot was
taken through an "L" or a"CocaCola" bottle...for that matter.I
think it's just for your ego to say"I have an xxxxxx"L".The end in
this case does not justify the means.Soooo..Do you really need one?
I think not!! Use what you got and enjoy the end result...great
pics and a fatter bank balance!
1. Only a small percentage of people NEED "L" lenses.

2. Most people cannot tell whether a picture was taken with a "L"
lens.

3. The advantage of a "L" lens in terms of colour, contrast etc can
to a large extent be "manufactured" in PS for a picture taken with
a non-L lens.

4. For the masses, a "L" lens is a luxury item.

Having said all that, I think your comment - "I think it is just
for your ego...." - was wholly unnecessary and provocative.

--
Arthur Li
http://www.pbase.com/akl

The camera is only one of the photographer's tools ....
--
Sils...

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
--

http://www.pbase.com/nitro115
http://www.unc.edu/~haraszti
 
Provocative..maybe...It's just in my opine that most of these forum
followers are techno/hardware freaks and its their "toys" they
thrive on.Not the results as it should be.
It is one thing making an observation for the benefit of the
newbies (so they don't get L fever too early), it is quite another
to call most of the forum followers "techno/hardware freaks". I
gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were not deliberately
starting an argument but I am not too sure now....I follow this
forum, I have very nice gear and I enjoy playing with my toys...but
I also take nice pictures so you shouldn't tar most people with one
brush...But I will defend to the death your right to say what you
said.

--
Arthur Li
http://www.pbase.com/akl

The camera is only one of the photographer's tools ....
--
Sils...

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
I am a Pro who shoots between 35- 45 weddings a season. I have
shot with both "L" glass and non "L" glass and I can tell you there
is a distinct difference in the quality of the final product.
Please understand I had to see this for myself before I believed
it. I was like you and thought I could "get by" with non "L"....
(truth is, if I wasn't doing this professional, I probably would
opt for non "L" for the money difference. But it all boils down to
what you are going to do with it. Are there guys out there who have
an "L" lens just to say they have it??? SURE
In my case, if it was your daughter or sisters wedding I was
photographing, wouldent you feel better knowing I am using the best
of the best to insure the quality of the job??? Just my thoughts....
Frank
--
Sils...

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
 
For those who ask "What lens should I ....."
There is lots of very good glass... by many makers... in all types
and sizes out there that are NOT "Ls". Anyone in these "digital
days" with a reasonably good working knowledge of PS or PS
Elements2 (or similar) can produce a finished product(photo) of
outstanding excellence.Most could not tell if the original shot was
taken through an "L" or a"CocaCola" bottle...for that matter.I
think it's just for your ego to say"I have an xxxxxx"L".The end in
this case does not justify the means.Soooo..Do you really need one?
I think not!! Use what you got and enjoy the end result...great
pics and a fatter bank balance!

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
I wanted a lens which was good at F2.8, which had zoom, and which was going to be rugged.
I bought a second-hand 28-70 2.8L
What else could I have bought which matched those specs?
I would have had the 28-135 IS USM but it's not fast enough.
It's horses for courses.
--
Regards,
DaveMart

Please see profile for equipment
 
I would not put BMW and Benz on the same pedestal as Canon L.
Canon's Ls are RELIABLE, durable, work without failure, have few if
any flaws etc.

Having had new BMWs and Benzes, following ownership of used Accords
and Civics during my college days, I must say that neither German
brand stands up even to the Civic. Yes, in an accident I'd prefer
to be in the German car, but when it comes to reliability,
accessories, flawlessness, a Civic will beat the others.

Now, as for Canon's Ls, they are certainly worthy of being put up
on the pedestal, as they appear to stand up to all kinds of
challenges. In a sense, with a Canon L, you get the strength and
durability of a German car with the reliability of the Japanese.

Stefan
Do you really need one?
I think not!! Use what you got and enjoy the end result...great
pics and a fatter bank balance!
If we all followed your reasoning we'd be driving Fords. There's
nothing wrong with a Ford, as they work quite well, will get me
from Point "A" to Point "B" just as quickly (here in the States),
and will leave me with "a fatter bank balance."

However, I prefer BMWs and Mercedes, thank you very much.

Why would anyone spend over $5,000 for a 500mm Canon L IS lens when
a much lighter, more versatile Sigma 50-500 is only $700?

Brendan
--
Equipment list in profile -- where it BELONGS!
----------
If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, I'm the world's most
dangerous man!
--
Mike Morbach
I'm still learning
http://www.pbase.com/spike777
--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's
 
Yes, but when you bring it to a Benz or BMW dealer, the are arrogant and not very willing to help. Also, when you get your car back, how often does it happen that the final number on the bill does NOT have a comma in it?

I've never had a bill with a comma for any of the other models.

For what it's worth, I now have an Acura MDX in hopes of having a better experience than with the German brands.
I would not put BMW and Benz on the same pedestal as Canon L.
Canon's Ls are RELIABLE, durable, work without failure, have few if
any flaws etc.

Having had new BMWs and Benzes, following ownership of used Accords
and Civics during my college days, I must say that neither German
brand stands up even to the Civic. Yes, in an accident I'd prefer
to be in the German car, but when it comes to reliability,
accessories, flawlessness, a Civic will beat the others.

Now, as for Canon's Ls, they are certainly worthy of being put up
on the pedestal, as they appear to stand up to all kinds of
challenges. In a sense, with a Canon L, you get the strength and
durability of a German car with the reliability of the Japanese.

Stefan
Do you really need one?
I think not!! Use what you got and enjoy the end result...great
pics and a fatter bank balance!
If we all followed your reasoning we'd be driving Fords. There's
nothing wrong with a Ford, as they work quite well, will get me
from Point "A" to Point "B" just as quickly (here in the States),
and will leave me with "a fatter bank balance."

However, I prefer BMWs and Mercedes, thank you very much.

Why would anyone spend over $5,000 for a 500mm Canon L IS lens when
a much lighter, more versatile Sigma 50-500 is only $700?

Brendan
--
Equipment list in profile -- where it BELONGS!
----------
If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, I'm the world's most
dangerous man!
--
Mike Morbach
I'm still learning
http://www.pbase.com/spike777
 
....The end in this case does not justify the means....
I'll end by saying that PS is not a panacea. The detail you didn't
capture can not be manufactured. If you didn't capture the edge,
then no amount of contrast enhancement or sharpening is going to
"improve" it.
Why not? These are just 1's & 0's. I can change them one by one as per my artistic eye and sensational mind. What's a genius. . . . LOL

Steven
 
"Observation"?

How 'bout "reverse-snobservation"?

Larry (L vs Coke? ...give us a break.)
For those who ask "What lens should I ....."
There is lots of very good glass... by many makers... in all types
and sizes out there that are NOT "Ls". Anyone in these "digital
days" with a reasonably good working knowledge of PS or PS
Elements2 (or similar) can produce a finished product(photo) of
outstanding excellence.Most could not tell if the original shot was
taken through an "L" or a"CocaCola" bottle...for that matter.I
think it's just for your ego to say"I have an xxxxxx"L".The end in
this case does not justify the means.Soooo..Do you really need one?
I think not!! Use what you got and enjoy the end result...great
pics and a fatter bank balance!

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
 
Sils

it is simple. if you think the way you do (and this is not meant in a bad way) you do not need L glass.

If you do run into problems where that 28-135 F5.6 doesnt do it anymore because of technical limits then you start looking into solutions to fix that problem. A 24-70 L 2.8 will do that trick.

So IMHO it depends on what you shoot and what you think is good enough as a result. If there is plenty of light and no problem with flare pretty much any coke bottle will do but there are lots of times where that coke bottle just wont cut it.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

photos at http://www.salzlechner.com/photo
 
... most of these forum
followers are techno/hardware freaks and its their "toys" they
thrive on.Not the results as it should be.
You've been here all of 1 month.

There are thousands (and thousands) of readers/members at this website, and a significant number of them visit this forum.

And you have them all "analysed"?

Thanks for straightening us out on how "it should be".

Not!
Why are my thoughts worth two cents and yours only one?
(Your mom misled you as to the relative worth of your thoughts compared to the thoughts of others. ;-)

Larry
 
Not everyone can afford L glass especially in the 2.8 range.
But it would be great to have.

As someone that is ready to jump into DSLR, I see that maybe the bodies are getting cheaper, but the glass certainly is NOT.
As for plexaglass, it scratches too easily.. :)
Vaughn T. Winfree
Sils

it is simple. if you think the way you do (and this is not meant in
a bad way) you do not need L glass.

If you do run into problems where that 28-135 F5.6 doesnt do it
anymore because of technical limits then you start looking into
solutions to fix that problem. A 24-70 L 2.8 will do that trick.

So IMHO it depends on what you shoot and what you think is good
enough as a result. If there is plenty of light and no problem with
flare pretty much any coke bottle will do but there are lots of
times where that coke bottle just wont cut it.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

photos at http://www.salzlechner.com/photo
--
Vaughn T. Winfree
Sony F707 Photoshop 7.0 Alien Bee's
pBase supporter http://www.pBase.com/vaughn
 
Hey, wait a minute. I drive Ford's!

Makes it easier to afford those L's, too.

;)
If we all followed your reasoning we'd be driving Fords. There's
nothing wrong with a Ford, as they work quite well, will get me
from Point "A" to Point "B" just as quickly (here in the States),
and will leave me with "a fatter bank balance."

However, I prefer BMWs and Mercedes, thank you very much.
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!
 
with being an equipment junkie. It seems to me to be a reasonable arm of recreational photography as it is in any other hobby. I fact I can't think of one hobby, be it flying, model railroading or quilting that doesn't have "equipmentitis" as part of it's rationale. I lust ater a Rolleiflex twin lens reflex....... I tell myself, because it takes great pictures, but its really because its a ROLLEIFLEX.... and I don't intend to rationalise or apologise to anyone for the choices I make.
 
I'll go with the Audi S4 myself. However, the Ford Focus is one sweet handling car.

Frank B
Do you really need one?
I think not!! Use what you got and enjoy the end result...great
pics and a fatter bank balance!
If we all followed your reasoning we'd be driving Fords. There's
nothing wrong with a Ford, as they work quite well, will get me
from Point "A" to Point "B" just as quickly (here in the States),
and will leave me with "a fatter bank balance."

However, I prefer BMWs and Mercedes, thank you very much.

Why would anyone spend over $5,000 for a 500mm Canon L IS lens when
a much lighter, more versatile Sigma 50-500 is only $700?

Brendan
--
Equipment list in profile -- where it BELONGS!
----------
If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, I'm the world's most
dangerous man!
 
I'll have to look at a policy to replace the "L" stuff with some Tamron and Tokina glass and PS Elements II, I am sure I have three or four free copies of that somewhere.... I did see a sigma lens once..

sheesh....

everyone buy what they....

a. Want
b. Can afford
c. need

Not necessarily on that order.
For those who ask "What lens should I ....."
There is lots of very good glass... by many makers... in all types
and sizes out there that are NOT "Ls". Anyone in these "digital
days" with a reasonably good working knowledge of PS or PS
Elements2 (or similar) can produce a finished product(photo) of
outstanding excellence.Most could not tell if the original shot was
taken through an "L" or a"CocaCola" bottle...for that matter.I
think it's just for your ego to say"I have an xxxxxx"L".The end in
this case does not justify the means.Soooo..Do you really need one?
I think not!! Use what you got and enjoy the end result...great
pics and a fatter bank balance!

Why are my thoughts worth 2 cents and yours only one?
 

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