Starting Over - D800(E) and 5D3. Help me make the best decision (please)

TOF guy wrote:

TOF guy said:

Based on many stories, the one I've pointed out just being one example. It is only fair to the O/P to bring his attention to the never ending complains about Nikon support or lack thereof

Click to expand...

Just for the record, it might be worth remembering that we don't all live where you live...

Where I'm from, the service has been very good. I've received nothing but excellent service and help from the Nikon representatives and service factories here. And no, I'm in no way affiliated with Nikon or their services.

There are other companies that are having significantly worse behaviour here, and on top overcharge for their services -- like 3x what the US guys pay. Even though they are an unavoidable part of the industry, they are not camera manufacturers, so I'll not mention names here. But it leads me to my point: competition is good and Canon and Nikon (and others) are good at competing, and eventually will keep pushing each other to new innovations. Hopefully they will also be able to sort out any issues with the local distribution and service!

To the O/P: both camera systems are very good, and others have already listed some of their pro and cons, and some have even voiced their strong opinion about certain features that they like better in one system. I don't have any problems with my D800 (neither color nor autofocus); it's the best camera I've ever used. I use the resolution for cropping also, and the DR is really excellent, colors are very good even under challenging conditions (I usually deploy LR for my postprocessing) -- and AF on mine works really well.

The guy next door shoots the 5D mk III and is very happy with that too. I've borrowed it for a week to test it out, but prefer to stick with the Nikon that I'm more familiar with. I see no reasons to switch, and would buy the D800 again given the opportunity. Others will probably stick to their 5D mkIII.

FWIW,

- Per.

Mira,

Excellent comments.
In particular anyone contemplating a new camera purchase is advised to wait for the photokina 2014 announcements. Nikon is Durand I'm hoping they improve their AF system. Despite the other replies, I too found the d800 AF system to fall short. Many times it nailed it which is why when it was off, even slightly, it was noticeable.
I tried the a7r, but it's not ready for prone tine. I'm hoping this fall the next gen will be a big improvement to compare with nikon's next top of the line.

Reilly Diefenbach said:

cm71td said:

Janoch said:

TOF guy said:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53688937

Click to expand...

One guy "bricks" his D800 during firmware upgrade - most probably caused by a powerfailure - and we should all run away from Nikon?

Wow...

Click to expand...

The problem isn't that firmware updates occasionally fail, it is that Nikon has the gall to charge $240 for re-installing it.

Click to expand...

If the owner messed up the installation of the new firmware, which I find at least possible if not probable, given that no one else has reported such an issue, Nikon has a legitimate service ticket.

Click to expand...

I agree with most stuff you post but not the paragraph above. A camera should not "brick up", although it certainly can happen. If it does it should be fixed free of charge. I would use your own argument of "no one else reported the problem" to suggest that the firmware upgrade process is really robust. Tons of people with Nikon cameras screw up the update process all the time. The worst that happens is that the firmware doesn't get updated. It doesn't result in the camera "bricking up" (until now). How many people remove a lens or memory card from the camera without first turning it off? Unbrick the stupid camera free of charge and be done with it. Why create another bad PR instance?

Reilly Diefenbach said:

As far as running away from Nikon, based on what a couple of internet bloggers are alleging, I don't think so. Give up my 36MP to go where, exactly? Canon? Pah!

I've had excellent service from Nikon the two times I've sent something in, therefore people should run to Nikon. There, just as valid :^)

Click to expand...

I've had excellent service from Nikon as well. No complaints. I do think they are getting a well deserved reputation for the number of times you hear about them claiming impact damage, not fixing AF problems on early D800s after multiple attempts, the D600 fiasco, etc. Their overall PR and customer management has been horrible.

That's why I say they deserve the beating they've been taking in the public opinion forums. It's not a question of whether they can competently fix things or not. If they have a few bad apple camera techs then they need to get rid of them. Given the Nikon financial news and org shake-up this week I think Nikon has some work to do.

TOF guy said:

Janoch said:

TOF guy said:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53688937

Click to expand...

One guy "bricks" his D800 during firmware upgrade - most probably caused by a powerfailure - and we should all run away from Nikon? Wow

Click to expand...

Many Nikon owners repeat again and again the same stories of poor service from Nikon and we should not run away from Nikon ? Wow

Click to expand...

I seem to recall quite a few favorable stories about Nikon's Los Angeles Service Center. Melville seems to get more of the bad reviews.

michaeladawson said:

Reilly Diefenbach said:

cm71td said:

Janoch said:

TOF guy said:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53688937

Click to expand...

One guy "bricks" his D800 during firmware upgrade - most probably caused by a powerfailure - and we should all run away from Nikon?

Wow...

Click to expand...

The problem isn't that firmware updates occasionally fail, it is that Nikon has the gall to charge $240 for re-installing it.

Click to expand...

If the owner messed up the installation of the new firmware, which I find at least possible if not probable, given that no one else has reported such an issue, Nikon has a legitimate service ticket.

Click to expand...

I agree with most stuff you post but not the paragraph above. A camera should not "brick up", although it certainly can happen. If it does it should be fixed free of charge. I would use your own argument of "no one else reported the problem" to suggest that the firmware upgrade process is really robust. Tons of people with Nikon cameras screw up the update process all the time. The worst that happens is that the firmware doesn't get updated. It doesn't result in the camera "bricking up" (until now). How many people remove a lens or memory card from the camera without first turning it off? Unbrick the stupid camera free of charge and be done with it. Why create another bad PR instance?

Click to expand...

Interrupting power during a firmware upgrade can be very bad with a variety of electronic devices. When you replace the core software that boots the device, you can expect it to brick when the upgrade is interrupted. This isn't a design flaw by Nikon. The only way a firmware upgrade would not brick a device is if the new software had not begun writing when the interruption occurs.

Robin Casady said:

michaeladawson said:

Reilly Diefenbach said:

If the owner messed up the installation of the new firmware, which I find at least possible if not probable, given that no one else has reported such an issue, Nikon has a legitimate service ticket.

Click to expand...

I agree with most stuff you post but not the paragraph above. A camera should not "brick up", although it certainly can happen. If it does it should be fixed free of charge. I would use your own argument of "no one else reported the problem" to suggest that the firmware upgrade process is really robust. Tons of people with Nikon cameras screw up the update process all the time. The worst that happens is that the firmware doesn't get updated. It doesn't result in the camera "bricking up" (until now). How many people remove a lens or memory card from the camera without first turning it off? Unbrick the stupid camera free of charge and be done with it. Why create another bad PR instance?

Click to expand...

Interrupting power during a firmware upgrade can be very bad with a variety of electronic devices. When you replace the core software that boots the device, you can expect it to brick when the upgrade is interrupted. This isn't a design flaw by Nikon. The only way a firmware upgrade would not brick a device is if the new software had not begun writing when the interruption occurs.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that. However, that doesn't change my opinion that Nikon should un-brick the camera free of charge. Is Nikon within their rights to charge for the service given that the issue may have been caused by user error? Probably. I just don't think it's worth it on their part.

Nikon has the worst customer service ever and to make matters worst majority of Nikon users don't care. Nikon has trained them to get use to it. So sad.

Reilly Diefenbach said:

cm71td said:

Janoch said:

TOF guy said:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53688937

Click to expand...

One guy "bricks" his D800 during firmware upgrade - most probably caused by a powerfailure - and we should all run away from Nikon?

Wow...

Click to expand...

The problem isn't that firmware updates occasionally fail, it is that Nikon has the gall to charge $240 for re-installing it.

Click to expand...

If the owner messed up the installation of the new firmware, which I find at least possible if not probable, given that no one else has reported such an issue, Nikon has a legitimate service ticket.

Click to expand...

You should also read the original report of the "brick" issue. You think it is most probably that the owner messed up the installation of the firmware? Based on what? His description of the issue is that he has updated firmware on many cameras. He meticulously went through the steps to do the update. His camera got to the end and displayed the message that the update was successful.

Unless you believe he's lying then the correct conclusion would be that the owner most probably did nothing wrong.

It's possible that the owner had a Lexar or Transcend card in the camera when he turned it off and back on. But given that he was describing his issue in a thread that was warning about Lexar and Transcend issues after the update I don't find that to be a likely explanation for his issue.

MiraShootsNikon said:

Reilly Diefenbach said:

As to coming in here and attempting to lord it over us Nikon shooters, is that really a productive use of your ever so valuable time? Would it be considered good form on the Canon board for me to publish a lengthy treatise complete with bolded text and bullet points as to how fantastic the D800 undoubtedly is?

Click to expand...

I can always set aside five minutes for the pleasure of "lording over" you, Reilly.

You, sir, seem to have forgotten that I earned the privilege, a while back, of getting to "lord over" anyone and anything in the Nikon forum. It was granted to me by Mako (albeit before he was a mod), because I was the only member of hundreds (or was it tens?) to correctly and consistently eyeball UV-filtered frames sprinkled among several groups of non-filtered samples. You remember, the old "which one is filtered, I bet you can't even tell" chestnut. And everyone did indeed strike out, except little old me. You were there! So I'll settle for "your majesty" when I am lording, thank-you-very-much.

This, of course, occurred not long after the forum concluded I was "color blind" for failing to appreciate the Adobe Standard interpretation of D800 color and contrast. You're a fickle bunch.

Anyway, I think you're confusing some thoughts on how the D800/e "doesn't work for me" with an attempt to suggest "it shouldn't work for anyone."

Click to expand...

Really? So, how do you explain what you wrote:

"Let me summarize it: if I boil it down to what I really want, what I really think makes photography fun and rewarding--quick, accurate AF + smooth fast workflow--then the 5D3 is lightyears ahead of anything from Nikon."

Lightyears ahead of Nikon? Hmmm.

I don't know if I am late, but...

I have the 5D Mark III and the D800. I would choose Canon.

- mpx advantage of the D800 is almost never realized unless you use good prime lenses at optimal aperature on a tripod. Most Canon zoom lenses on the 5D Mark III will outresolve comparable Nikon zooms on the D800. If you use zooms they almost never will give maximum mpx on either system.

- Silent shutter mode of the 5D Mark III is much better and real advantage if you need it.

- AF is better on the 5D Mark III. The D800 is pretty good.

- Colours and AWB are different. I am senstivie to colour and I prefer the results from Canon. It is possible to get close by tweaking RAW files, but adjusting colour is very time consuming.

- I think L lenss is the most complete and consistent line up of lenses available. On the whole, comparable Nikon lenes are more expensive and are less consistent in the "look". That said, I have not commited to buying many top end Nikon lenses since I have most top end L lenses.

- dynamic range of the D800 is an advantage on occasion.

- D800 shutter sounds cooler.

- Nikon Shooting Bank system is just plain dumb. Canon C1, C2, C3 is far superior.

All that said, if you prefer the colours of Nikon you should go with Nikon. If you prefer the colours of Canon (especially skin tones and sunsets) then stick with Canon. I have often been frustrated with sunset and sunrise pictures from my D800. I just can't seem to get the colours how I like them. Maybe I'm just use to Canon colours.

Just my opinion, and I own both cameras.

Per Baekgaard said:

TOF guy wrote:

Per Baekgaard said:

Based on many stories, the one I've pointed out just being one example. It is only fair to the O/P to bring his attention to the never ending complains about Nikon support or lack thereof

Click to expand...

Just for the record, it might be worth remembering that we don't all live where you live...

Click to expand...

Which is in the US. But we read similar stories from around the world: you are incorrect to assume that I presumed the O/P lives in the same country as I do.

This member lives in the UK and got the same support - or lack thereof - for his camera:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53695982

Serves also to show that Nikon dSLRs can fail the upgrade w/o mistake from the camera owner.

Per Baekgaard said:

Where I'm from, the service has been very good. I've received nothing but excellent service and help from the Nikon representatives and service factories here. And no, I'm in no way affiliated with Nikon or their services.

Click to expand...

You just wait. The only thing that will make Nikon change its way is when it becomes aware of all the bad rap that its deficiencies in customer support costs more in lost reputation than it does to provide proper customer service.

--
Thierry - posted as regular forum member

Andrew53 said:

I don't know if I am late, but...

I have the 5D Mark III and the D800. I would choose Canon.

- mpx advantage of the D800 is almost never realized unless you use good prime lenses at optimal aperature on a tripod. Most Canon zoom lenses on the 5D Mark III will outresolve comparable Nikon zooms on the D800. If you use zooms they almost never will give maximum mpx on either system.

- Silent shutter mode of the 5D Mark III is much better and real advantage if you need it.

- AF is better on the 5D Mark III. The D800 is pretty good.

- Colours and AWB are different. I am senstivie to colour and I prefer the results from Canon. It is possible to get close by tweaking RAW files, but adjusting colour is very time consuming.

- I think L lenss is the most complete and consistent line up of lenses available. On the whole, comparable Nikon lenes are more expensive and are less consistent in the "look". That said, I have not commited to buying many top end Nikon lenses since I have most top end L lenses.

- dynamic range of the D800 is an advantage on occasion.

- D800 shutter sounds cooler.

- Nikon Shooting Bank system is just plain dumb. Canon C1, C2, C3 is far superior.

All that said, if you prefer the colours of Nikon you should go with Nikon. If you prefer the colours of Canon (especially skin tones and sunsets) then stick with Canon. I have often been frustrated with sunset and sunrise pictures from my D800. I just can't seem to get the colours how I like them. Maybe I'm just use to Canon colours.

Just my opinion, and I own both cameras.

Click to expand...

I actually think that this is a pretty fair summary of the pros and cons. To the Nikon cons I would add the appalling live view implementation.

Lenses? TS belong to Canon, anything wide to Nikon, 24-200 zooms to Canon, most primes to Nikon, Nikon is catching up on super-teles.

In other words its all pretty close on average but with some material differences in certain areas.

I shoot in Manual Mode all of the time, and I like having aperture control under my middle finger (not my shutter finger), and shutter control under my thumb (in a normal position). I don't think any of the cameras have a convenient ISO setting so I choose an ISO for the conditions and set exposure using the meter (I spot meter, and use the zone system) with aperture or shutter selection.

Your mileage may vary.

I had a 5d Mk3 (briefly) and moved to Nikon D800. For me there's no contest (but I would say that). In particular I am constantly amazed by the ease with which the images can have the details lifted out of the shadows and the astonishing clarity of the picture at a pixel level. The banding on the 5d mk3 was too much for me.

In terms of handling, especially in manual mode, I much prefer the Nikon. Two dials, front and back for thumb and forefinger, control shutter speed and aperture, absolutely easy and quick. ISO control falls directly under the LH index finger. The Canon design, using a wheel on the left side, is unfortunate: it forces the ISO control to be on the right side, which I find hard to get at and slow to use.

(Haven't read the whole thread, so this may be redundant)

I have rented the 5D3 and the D800, then decided for the D800 and loving it.

Advantages of the D800:

• Moving the AF point with the 4-button-pad is great. The 5D3 has a flimsy joystick which drove me crazy.
• Face detection in viewfinder (AF-C Auto mode). I don't use it much to be honest, but for quick front portraits it is the fastest way --> party photography.
• Built-in flash which is powerful, good enough for any fill flash I'd want. The resulting photos don't look like a flash was used, as is often the case with point&shoot cameras.
• 3D AF-tracking works great.
• AF points highlighted in red, 5D3 can't do that (or not when I want it). This is useful against a dark background.
• Power-switch on thumb.
• This week's firmware update lets you change ISO with your right hand, so all major controls are now single-handed.

With the Sigma 35mm/1.4 I'm happy with the sharpness, but not so much with the AF wide-open in the dark.

For the record, I've dealt with the Nikon service centre in the UK and they were slow but fair. They were also reasonable in price, apologetic about the delay and did a good job.

TOF guy said:

Per Baekgaard said:

TOF guy wrote:

TOF guy said:

Based on many stories, the one I've pointed out just being one example. It is only fair to the O/P to bring his attention to the never ending complains about Nikon support or lack thereof

Click to expand...

Just for the record, it might be worth remembering that we don't all live where you live...

Click to expand...

Which is in the US. But we read similar stories from around the world: you are incorrect to assume that I presumed the O/P lives in the same country as I do.

This member lives in the UK and got the same support - or lack thereof - for his camera:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53695982

Serves also to show that Nikon dSLRs can fail the upgrade w/o mistake from the camera owner.

TOF guy said:

Where I'm from, the service has been very good. I've received nothing but excellent service and help from the Nikon representatives and service factories here. And no, I'm in no way affiliated with Nikon or their services.

Click to expand...

You just wait. The only thing that will make Nikon change its way is when it becomes aware of all the bad rap that its deficiencies in customer support costs more in lost reputation than it does to provide proper customer service.

Click to expand...