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Pro ripoff?

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which is not typically offered by the photographer, but is more often solicited by the school saying "you •will• give us this money •if• you want this job". But that's exactly what we call it. It's use seems to be growing in the wedding industry as well.
--
Mark Currier
 
looking for all the dimes they can muster. They don't care what the photog charges the parents for photo's as long as they can dip their hands in the register ;) Doesn't matter to them to a certain degree what the photos look like either.

I figure there will be 1 to 3 people within the school, that will make out like champs on the deal. The top dog for sure, or the person under them, purchasing mgr, and maybe one other.

Same thing goes at the corporate level with regard to vendors. Nothing new, bizness is bizness, unfortunately....

Photog B could have come in around 1/2 the price, but the school would have lost money on the deal. This is where the parents get it in the rear.

Same goes it at the high school level.
mark currier said:
which is not typically offered by the photographer, but is more
often solicited by the school saying "you •will• give us this
money •if• you want this job". But that's exactly what we call
it. It's use seems to be growing in the wedding industry as well.
--
Mark Currier
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
Phillip@keepsake
http://www.keepsakephotography.us
10D - D60 - Fuji S1
Canon 28.135IS, Canon 17.35
7 cats, 1 dog, and wife....
 
Let us not forget that the school is going to be taking a large slice of the revenue generated from print sales, and therefore its in THEIR interests as well as the photographer's to limit access.

Not to mention the absolute chaos that would ensue if the parents were allowed up the front. At least the paparazzi have some sense of respect for each other. I've seen the chaos that happens at school soccer (football over here in the UK) matches. The parents are more likely to get sent-off by the ref than the kids! I can just imagine the law suits that would follow in the US where Mrs X was assaulted by Mr W's 400mm f2.8..."Yes your honour, I was physically intimidated by the sheer size of it..... :)
 
mark currier said:
Thomas Gardner said:
Considering how much the parents paid to get their child to this
point, it's hard to believe that the college would stoop so morally
low.
Click to expand...
Morally low for restricting other photographers?
Click to expand...
Parents taking images of their graduating children for their personal benefit does not make them a photographer, it only makes them a proud parent recording a family historical event.

Yes the business, is morally corrupt in their practice of restricting parents.
mark currier said:
The school was
getting anywhere from 40-50% gross of sales.
Click to expand...
And how much did they get from the parents so they could have a job? I'm not quite understanding your point.
mark currier said:
I guess that doesn't
anger anyone off as much as the evil photographer who's just trying
to make a living.
Click to expand...
The photographer was only filling a contractual request by the school and is only acting as their agent in crime, legally and the hired photographer is doing nothing wrong but the school administration is clearly doing something wrong.

--
If you don't want to believe me, ignore me:-)
 
Scot Perry said:
Thie pricing of DVDs is similar to the audio CD
phenomena it is simply what market will tolerate and yes first
adopters will usually pay but even the artists figured out with
audio CD they were getting screwed the record labels were charging
more but they were getting same royalties even though they actually
lost revenue from the fact CDs never wear out and the labels were
making more money because CDs are so cheap to produce although they
swore it wasn't true which was a lie, many saw the holes in there
justifications. But if your happy paying more for a product it
cost them less to produce I'm sure that's very comforting to the
studios as they laugh all the way to the bank.
Click to expand...
I remember when all records cost only $6. Now sure, there has been inflation since then, but even given the inflation factor, CDs today cost MORE than records did when they were only $6. And as you point out, the CD costs a lot less to produce, it should be less than the record.

In fact, the price of all other manufactured items have come down in price. There is really no excuse for CDs costing more than $6 today, except for GREED on the part of record companies.

And then the record companies are shocked that people don't think the CDs are worth $16 a pop so they are copying them for free.

Wake up record company execs.
 
Capital Man said:
I remember when all records cost only $6. Now sure, there has been
inflation since then, but even given the inflation factor, CDs
today cost MORE than records did when they were only $6. And as you
point out, the CD costs a lot less to produce, it should be less
than the record.
Click to expand...
Back in those days the artists didn't demand million-dollar-per-week salaries (and a 10 hour work week). Of course the records were cheaper back then! Duh! :-)

Interestingly enough, I noticed that an association for DVD rental companies wanted movie companies to delay the release of regular DVDs so that the rental places could have an exclusive period where a new DVD title could only be rented and not purchased. Apparently the problem is that people buy too many DVDs and don't bother renting the darn things anymore...(!)

So, if we buy more of the stuff, the prices stay the same or even increase? What a great deal!

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/
 
Would you like the CD for $15, or the vinyl for $10?

I know which I'd prefer (at those prices). And I don't care which costs them more or less to produce. The extra quality of the CD is worth more money. Well, maybe not to some "audiophiles".
Capital Man said:
I remember when all records cost only $6. Now sure, there has been
inflation since then, but even given the inflation factor, CDs
today cost MORE than records did when they were only $6. And as you
point out, the CD costs a lot less to produce, it should be less
than the record.

In fact, the price of all other manufactured items have come down
in price. There is really no excuse for CDs costing more than $6
today, except for GREED on the part of record companies.

And then the record companies are shocked that people don't think
the CDs are worth $16 a pop so they are copying them for free.

Wake up record company execs.
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!
 
Thomas Gardner said:
Thomas Gardner said:
Mark Currier wrote:
The school was
getting anywhere from 40-50% gross of sales.
Click to expand...
And how much did they get from the parents so they could have a
job? I'm not quite understanding your point.
Click to expand...
Hence,
Thomas Gardner said:
Thomas Gardner said:
I guess that doesn't
anger anyone off as much as the evil photographer who's just trying
to make a living.
Click to expand...
The photographer was only filling a contractual request by the
school and is only acting as their agent in crime, legally and the
hired photographer is doing nothing wrong but the school
administration is clearly doing something wrong.
Click to expand...
my point, that the original poster should really be more hacked off at the school than the photographer. Unbeknownst to many, the school was more at the root of the prices being raised and the restriction of other photographers. I hear ya, let's just get the blame where it really belongs.

Mark

--
Mark Currier
 
Capital Man said:
I suppose it's not surprising that some people who hang around
photo forums are obsessed with capturing every "important" moment
of their life on film or CCD.
Click to expand...
Here's one more!
Capital Man said:
This is not something I think is such a good idea. You should
enjoy your family events because you're there with your family, and
not worry so much about getting pictures of everything.
Click to expand...
I agree with not "worrying" about getting pictures, but I "enjoy" getting good pictures. I'll give you that I'm a fanatic, but, in my defense, I've gone to the beach several times with my daughter (who's almost two), and when I [already] look back on those pics I remember things, important moments, that I would not have remembered otherwise.

For those who have exceptional memories (or, perhaps, mine is simply exceptionally poor), a photographic record of events is invaluable -- even when they're not that special.

I'm also thinking of when my daughter is my age or older and can look back through all the photos and video clips. I can't tell you what such a treasure would mean to me now if I had had one.
Capital Man said:
I'm into photography because I'm fascinated with the idea of
capturing a beautiful image. I suppose I'm also obsessed with the
equipment, unfortunately! But I don't want to capture a photo of
every event in my life. I want to live in the present and the
future, not the past.
Click to expand...
If my present were sufficiently exciting, I would certainly agree. I mean, if I climbed Mt. Fuji one week, went skydiving the next, diving the next, etc., etc.. But, the unfortunate reality for most people (and I really envy you if you are not included in this!) is that most days are simply boring -- the same old thing. Not that they are bad, just uneventful. That leaves a lot of time to take pictures and have a record of a boring life that my daughter (and me) will love to look back on in the furture! : )

--joe

P.S. You know, if you are going to climb Mt. Fuji, or skydive, etc., you can always invite me -- but I'll be taking some pictures along the way! : )

--
Visit my rock store at http://www.saimport.com !
Happy G3 owner!

: )
 
mark currier said:
mark currier said:
The photographer was only filling a contractual request by the
school and is only acting as their agent in crime, legally and the
hired photographer is doing nothing wrong but the school
administration is clearly doing something wrong.
Click to expand...
my point, that the original poster should really be more hacked off
at the school than the photographer. Unbeknownst to many, the
school was more at the root of the prices being raised and the
restriction of other photographers. I hear ya, let's just get the
blame where it really belongs.

Mark
Click to expand...
Mark and Thomas

I really cannot say who was responsible for disallowing access for the parents. Most likely they were in agreement. The important thing to me is that the "moment" was lost and there is no recourse - it will not do any good to complain to either of them. All they could do at most is say I am sorry. Please look at Jojosungs post in this thread. He describes his graduation with a very good outcome for the Pro and the parents alike. I believe this is how it should have been done. My original post was admittedly to vent somewhat, but the ensuing conversation/ discussion has generated some insight for amateures and pros alike.
Steve
--
I had to move up when I couldn't get flash bulbs for the Brownie anymore.
http://www.pbase.com/stevebrown
 
post to another forum? LOL i'm kidding

Why don't you put a watermark on all your pics from your website? you add something so that your visitors know they can email you and receive back the same pic but without the watermark... and print it themselves in low res for their wall but at least you know where your pics go.

This way you know who you gave each pic to... and you can spot anyone when you see one of your pics used without your authorization...

I made a little photoshop action that pastes my copyright image... the result is clean. But you could also use pictureshark (free utility) and get the same result (and Pshark is faster than photoshop at doing this yet not as clean)

You've got great pics, don't let them be stolen... :)

Guillaume
http://www.at-sight.com
Sports & general event photography
 
Ken Phillips said:
Scot Perry said:
Scot
DavidP said:
mark currier said:
You're not just paying for the content of the movie, but the
increased flexibility and features of being able to skip to any
part at any time. Can't do that with vhs. It's like options on a
new car. They only give the good ones to the people who will pay
more for the car.
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!
Click to expand...
--
Click to expand...
--
Wanted: Beautiful young woman to be my wife. Must be
obsessive-compulsive about cleaning.
Click to expand...
 
Here's the fun part. All recent DVD's have been telecined (digitally transferred from the negative) into high definition (1080 lines of resolution). From there, they are down-rezed to standard NTSC resolution (520 lines of info) and pressed into the DVD's you buy and love. Once High Def kicks into gear in the next 5 or so years, you will get to buy back all your DVD's in high definition. They are already sitting there on an HD master tape at the studio just waiting to be pressed into the next format for $.50 per disk. Since this is now high definition, your HD-DVD's will probably cost $30 instead of $20. And we will once again throw out our old-format movies and buy them back in high-def.

Fun, eh?

-geo
DavidP said:
I know which I'd prefer (at those prices). And I don't care
which costs them more or less to produce. The extra quality of
the CD is worth more money. Well, maybe not to some "audiophiles".
Capital Man said:
I remember when all records cost only $6. Now sure, there has been
inflation since then, but even given the inflation factor, CDs
today cost MORE than records did when they were only $6. And as you
point out, the CD costs a lot less to produce, it should be less
than the record.

In fact, the price of all other manufactured items have come down
in price. There is really no excuse for CDs costing more than $6
today, except for GREED on the part of record companies.

And then the record companies are shocked that people don't think
the CDs are worth $16 a pop so they are copying them for free.

Wake up record company execs.
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!
Click to expand...
 
I attended my brother's graduation from the University of Wisconsin a couple years ago. My parents and I were seated hundreds of feet away because the ceremony took place in the huge basketball arena. I don't think there was any designated "parents photo spot" bacause it would have:

a) taken up space in an already crowded area with grads, the band, etc.

b) caused chaos amongst parents fighting to get a good position.

It was simple: spectators were only allowed in the arena's seating area.

I graduated 2 years prior from USC here in Los Angeles. We were blessed with a ceremony at the beautiful Shrine Auditorium (where the Oscars used to be held). Seating was fixed and parents sat behind the grad section. No one was allowed to hang out in front of the stage because it was distracting and probably unsafe.

In both situations, there was no chance to hang out by the stage for a picture. I don't know of any complaints about this. It kept bickering parents from clogging up space and distracting from the ceremony. If you had a 200mm lens, you could get decent shots from your seat, which is how I understand your situation was laid out.

I agree with this policy. Get the best possible shot from where you are seated. You are attending a ceremony: not a press conference. You are not guarenteed prime photo access. Enjoy the show.

... and if the proof sucks from the pro, don't buy it. Graduation is a cool moment, but I never bought the photos of me getting my diploma. I have the diploma, memories, and family pics from the day. That's what its about. If the pro gets a good shot of you and you buy it, bonus. I didn't get my degree for the photo-op.

-geo
 
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