Leica for a new journalist

Hello to all. This is my first post. I write because my daughter will start in the fall her master's degree in journalism at Columbia University, and I would like to prize her hard work with a great camera. Please note that just about all I know about cameras is that when it comes to great ones Leica are often cited. I own a Canon G12 which is far beyond my scope of mastery.

Luckily, my daughter knows about photography much more than I do as she has taken photography classes, has worked for some time now with her trusty SLR Canon, and I understand she'll get some additional training in photography at Columbia. By the way, she'll probably concentrate her career in political campaigns and issues.

For all of the above, I'll truly appreciate your input as to which Leica body and lens would be ideal for her. I know that one lens is never enough but the second one she'll have to buy herself. I'd like to know which would you recommend to start. I have in mind a Leica that she will be able to use for years to come.

Also, I cannot understand what is the difference between the various Leica cameras: The M, the ME, the MP, the M7, M9... Please help...!!!

Please excuse my ignorance. In any case, your responses will be greatly appreciated.

JM

JMendez said:

Hello to all. This is my first post. I write because my daughter will start in the fall her master's degree in journalism at Columbia University, and I would like to prize her hard work with a great camera. Please note that just about all I know about cameras is that when it comes to great ones Leica are often cited. I own a Canon G12 which is far beyond my scope of mastery.

Luckily, my daughter knows about photography much more than I do as she has taken photography classes, has worked for some time now with her trusty SLR Canon, and I understand she'll get some additional training in photography at Columbia. By the way, she'll probably concentrate her career in political campaigns and issues.

For all of the above, I'll truly appreciate your input as to which Leica body and lens would be ideal for her. I know that one lens is never enough but the second one she'll have to buy herself. I'd like to know which would you recommend to start. I have in mind a Leica that she will be able to use for years to come.

Also, I cannot understand what is the difference between the various Leica cameras: The M, the ME, the MP, the M7, M9... Please help...!!!

Please excuse my ignorance. In any case, your responses will be greatly appreciated.

JM

Click to expand...

You should consider A7r, A7, and most of all the upcoming A7s that will be a low-light monster and will be very useful for journalists, and will have automatic focus.

As lovely as getting a Leica for your daughter is, for the purposes of a masters degree in journalism it's major overkill. The ME with either a 35mm Summicron or Summilux would be a good choice as it is most basic. id also suggest looking into a used lens, too, as with Leica many hardly used optics are available and having put my son through Columbia ('11) you might want to consider that.

That said, however, I think the Miro's suggestion of the Sony A7s is a good one. It's compact, full frame and produces excellent images at ISO as high as a jaw dropping 406900! plus the Zeiss lenses available are on a reasonable par with the two Leitz lenses I suggested. Downside? The resolution is 12mp but that's no issue in photojournalism. Also, some have felt the shutter ( even if it's the same one used on Sonys 24 mp A7 model--another good choice) is a tad too noticeable in certain situations.

The Leica shutter is somewhat quieter. The Leica also uses a rangefinder for focusing. This is an advantage for reportage as the frame lines allow you to see more of the scene than the camera will capture and this is an advantage in some situations. Also focusing at night or low light with a rangefinder is often faster than some Auto focus mechanisms which have a tendency to 'hunt' in these situations. The Leica is weak at higher ISO levels in that images have been reported to have too many artifacts and noise when pushed too hard. For black and white, however, this is less of a problem since the noise takes on a quality of films of yore.

There is another recommendation: Fuji's X100s. It handles like a Leica and produces jpg images that most say need little or no tweaking. The viewfinder is similar to the Leica in that it has frame lines inside a larger view. Auto focus which on a previous model was a drawback to many has now been improved to acceptable speed. The camera has a fixed (I.e. Not interchangeable) lens that produces excellent images with great sharpness and tone with the same field of view as the 35 mm Leica lens. There is also an electronic viewfinder for critical framing as well as a clever 'electronic split image' range finder for focusing in difficult lighting (there's also another focusing aid as well). Fuji also makes a similar camera with interchangeable lenses but I don't recommend that. There is also a DSLR which is also fantastic. The shutters are quiet and it produces images shot at high ISO that are excellent.

i know this is the Leica forum but I doubt anyone would quibble with this recommendation for your daughter.

it may be sorry I mean it would be a good idea to talk to her about what she thinks is a good camera for her if you have not already done so. If you have and its a Leica she wants the the current M would be fine, and I would start her off with the 35 cron

The Leica with it's rangefinder has been the classic of intimate behind the scenes photography over the last ... well almost a century now.

If your daughter respects that photographic legacy and history, favors discrete and relationship based reportage photography, Leica is a great choice.

If however she is a more the no-nonsense hard hitting reporter, she would probably prefer a fast action, low light , fast focusing , wi-fi connected pro SLR camera or something cutting edge like the Sony.

Likewise for film cameras M7,MP and earlier models e.g. M6 : Film is becoming more of a personal medium than professional - perhaps because of the dedication and time it takes to produce top notch prints or scans. The MP is the pinnacle of film rangefinders.

The M Monochrome is uniquely a digital black and white camera that appeals to the B&W film user without the time ; while also pushing new boundaries of resolution and available light work.

The M-E is perhaps the last of the CCD cameras and produces a vibrant image. But you need fast lenses like a Summilux for low light indoor work.

The M type 240 is a newer digital CMOS body that provides some of the features of contemporary mirror-less system cameras. It's design leans heavily to the future and was heavily influenced by photographers working for Magnum.

Giving here a new Leica and lens may also be a burden - carrying around $10,000 of equipment may take some getting used to.

How about testing the waters with a used M6, 35mm Summicron and a pile of Tri-X : see how she gets on with that, while offering to help her out in the future if she wants to go for a digital rangefinder.

Leica M7 (0.58) Silver

Honestly, I cannot imagine a better idea as a gift, the film Leicas have a potential built into them like a dream about the future past. She would always lug an slr or buy herself a pocketable thing that was a HK discount but then always have the leica in a bag and ready to go. You dont want a present that is superseded by something else, instead wanting it to be with her even after you are gone. I cannot believe someone suggested a Sony or a Fuji ...its a present fellas not some idiotic this is better than that kind of deal. If Dad wanted to buy me the best I'd ask for an S, not some crappy little Jap toy that no one will want to use in 5 years let alone 20-60.

Film is very fashionable and a bit of a statement among the girls as well. An M7 with a 0.58 viewfinder is still manufactured and film is always going to be available, using film is exciting and the stuff that photo-journalists were once made of. These Leica film cameras are like a moment of nostalgia from a time you weren't even born, hugely emotional and a surprise when you see the photograph.

The M7 has an aperture mode, the only film Leica that does and is this way for those unprepared moments. A silver M7 is a serious piece of bling and still the ideal photo-journalist tool and you would fit it with a black Zeiss biogon 35/2 or a Planar 50 ...or both.

....I don't know if you are aware but I happen to be available for adoption and all I would want is a Leica M7 ...it will last me a lifetime and would always think of you ...Dad.

Ant.

oneANT said:

Leica M7 (0.58) Silver

Honestly, I cannot imagine a better idea as a gift, the film Leicas have a potential built into them like a dream about the future past. She would always lug an slr or buy herself a pocketable thing that was a HK discount but then always have the leica in a bag and ready to go. You dont want a present that is superseded by something else, instead wanting it to be with her even after you are gone. I cannot believe someone suggested a Sony or a Fuji ...its a present fellas not some idiotic this is better than that kind of deal. If Dad wanted to buy me the best I'd ask for an S, not some crappy little Jap toy that no one will want to use in 5 years let alone 20-60.

Film is very fashionable and a bit of a statement among the girls as well. An M7 with a 0.58 viewfinder is still manufactured and film is always going to be available, using film is exciting and the stuff that photo-journalists were once made of. These Leica film cameras are like a moment of nostalgia from a time you weren't even born, hugely emotional and a surprise when you see the photograph.

The M7 has an aperture mode, the only film Leica that does and is this way for those unprepared moments. A silver M7 is a serious piece of bling and still the ideal photo-journalist tool and you would fit it with a black Zeiss biogon 35/2 or a Planar 50 ...or both.

....I don't know if you are aware but I happen to be available for adoption and all I would want is a Leica M7 ...it will last me a lifetime and would always think of you ...Dad.

Ant.

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I'm in strong agreement with oneANT on this, with a few qualifications...

You haven't told us whether or not your daughter will be studying photo-journalism. I'll assume she is. That leads to whether or not her school offers a film lab. Many journalism schools are reducing or actively eliminating film in their course work. If there is no lab in which she can develop and print her film, then buying an heirloom quality body like the M7 would be a waste of money.

Green lighting these two concerns, the decision is whether to purchase the M7, MP, or less expensive and equally robust M6. The auto-exposure of the M7 is excellent and would be my first recommendation. The MP and M6 are mechanical in nature, which means that even though they use a battery for exposure reading, should the battery die, they can be used in a completely manual way. Your daughter will have to set exposure using either her own judgement, or the assistance of a light meter. Also, if she expects to travel into areas where conditions are rough on the camera body, having a camera that can be used manually is a godsend. The MP and M6 are superior here, as the M7 without the battery can only function at two different shutter speeds (1/60, 1/125).

Deciding which viewfinder magnification range to use can be a daunting decision. First, this option is only available for these three cameras. Second, this should be decided after the lens selection is made. Historically photo-journalists were most comfortable in the 24, 28, 35 and 50mm range. This is dependent on the nature of the journalist, with those being outgoing tending towards the wider lenses, the more contemplative types to the longer. Consider the difference in style between Garry Winogrand (28mm) and Henri Cartier-Bresson (50mm), and figure out where your daughter sits, and where she wants to be. The 28mm focal length was a classic PJ lens, in which case the .58x viewfinder is quite sweet, but it is limited to photographers who are truly bold in their approach, or in situations (such as political events) where access is easy. It's only in that circumstance however, that I'd recommend the .58x OVF. If she prefers the 50mm, then the .85x OVF is wonderful, but pretty much limited to that lens, the 90, and the 135mm. The .72x OVF has a more universal application, and is the "safest" choice if she hasn't gelled in lens preference.

I hope this helps, and good luck with your decision. Your daughter is lucky to have you as her father!

Why must she have a Leica of all cameras??? Especially one of the "rangefinder-type", difficult to focus in action! Or maybe it is only a "status symbol"? Then she´ll also need a Rolex and a Lexus
Andrzej

JMendez said:

Hello to all. This is my first post. I write because my daughter will start in the fall her master's degree in journalism at Columbia University, and I would like to prize her hard work with a great camera. Please note that just about all I know about cameras is that when it comes to great ones Leica are often cited. I own a Canon G12 which is far beyond my scope of mastery.

Luckily, my daughter knows about photography much more than I do as she has taken photography classes, has worked for some time now with her trusty SLR Canon, and I understand she'll get some additional training in photography at Columbia. By the way, she'll probably concentrate her career in political campaigns and issues.

For all of the above, I'll truly appreciate your input as to which Leica body and lens would be ideal for her. I know that one lens is never enough but the second one she'll have to buy herself. I'd like to know which would you recommend to start. I have in mind a Leica that she will be able to use for years to come.

Also, I cannot understand what is the difference between the various Leica cameras: The M, the ME, the MP, the M7, M9... Please help...!!!

Please excuse my ignorance. In any case, your responses will be greatly appreciated.

JM

Click to expand...

Wow, some gift.

Well, is this a gift or a tool? Think carefully. A Leica is like giving a soldier an antique M1 rifle. It is an outstanding rifle, but they will arrive at the modern battlefield outgunned.

As a gift it would be wonderful (i.e., graduation). But as a tool it will not be the best thing for her studies.

Film cameras like the MP, M7, M6, etc., will be a hinderance due to the waiting time to get it processed while the rest of the class simply downloads and prints right after a shoot. That is not going to cut it. This is not the 1980s.

The digital Ms resolve that issue, but lack autofocus (as do all rangefinders). So any assignments that require fast action capture will be a handicap with a Leica.

Additionally, Leicas take time to learn compared to DSLRs. Focusing and composing with a rangefinder is an art and probably not something she will have a lot of time to learn given her schedule.

My opinion is if you want to buy her a camera for her course work you should consult with her (or her instructor if it is a surprise) to see what she wants/needs first. My guess is that it will point you to the Cannon forum as she is already familiar with that equipment and it is camera of choice for professional reportage work.

JMendez

You might want to look at the Leica M8 and 8.2 with a less expensive Elmar lens for a much smaller investiment. People who have something given to them don't always treat them very well and may put them down and someone steal them.

I'd rather lose $ 4,000 in equipment than $ 10,000.

This was mistakenly addressed to the last poster, not the OP. Sorry.

Thank you so much to all for your kind replies. You have been very helpful. Of course, there must always be the bitter oddball to spoil an otherwise perfectly civil conversation; maybe he yearns for the Rolex he's never had. Thank you kindly to all.

user_name said:

JMendez said:

Hello to all. This is my first post. I write because my daughter will start in the fall her master's degree in journalism at Columbia University, and I would like to prize her hard work with a great camera. Please note that just about all I know about cameras is that when it comes to great ones Leica are often cited. I own a Canon G12 which is far beyond my scope of mastery.

Luckily, my daughter knows about photography much more than I do as she has taken photography classes, has worked for some time now with her trusty SLR Canon, and I understand she'll get some additional training in photography at Columbia. By the way, she'll probably concentrate her career in political campaigns and issues.

For all of the above, I'll truly appreciate your input as to which Leica body and lens would be ideal for her. I know that one lens is never enough but the second one she'll have to buy herself. I'd like to know which would you recommend to start. I have in mind a Leica that she will be able to use for years to come.

Also, I cannot understand what is the difference between the various Leica cameras: The M, the ME, the MP, the M7, M9... Please help...!!!

Please excuse my ignorance. In any case, your responses will be greatly appreciated.

JM

Click to expand...

Wow, some gift.

Well, is this a gift or a tool? Think carefully. A Leica is like giving a soldier an antique M1 rifle. It is an outstanding rifle, but they will arrive at the modern battlefield outgunned.

As a gift it would be wonderful (i.e., graduation). But as a tool it will not be the best thing for her studies.

Film cameras like the MP, M7, M6, etc., will be a hinderance due to the waiting time to get it processed while the rest of the class simply downloads and prints right after a shoot. That is not going to cut it. This is not the 1980s.

The digital Ms resolve that issue, but lack autofocus (as do all rangefinders). So any assignments that require fast action capture will be a handicap with a Leica.

Additionally, Leicas take time to learn compared to DSLRs. Focusing and composing with a rangefinder is an art and probably not something she will have a lot of time to learn given her schedule.

My opinion is if you want to buy her a camera for her course work you should consult with her (or her instructor if it is a surprise) to see what she wants/needs first. My guess is that it will point you to the Cannon forum as she is already familiar with that equipment and it is camera of choice for professional reportage work.

Click to expand...

Very well said. I agree completely.

Also today journalists are expected to be able to do video as well, so a camera that can do stills and video well may be a better option.

D

drpix said:

Why must she have a Leica of all cameras??? Especially one of the "rangefinder-type", difficult to focus in action! Or maybe it is only a "status symbol"? Then she´ll also need a Rolex and a Lexus
Andrzej
http://andrzejponiatowski.zenfolio.com/

Click to expand...

Can we please stop having all these comments about status symbols, how much money or cameras or lenses one has? I do not think that anyone in this forum has ever projected such an image, so I find it strange that it is mentioned so often for no good reason... None of us like the high Leica prices, but we have accepted them or bought in the second hand market. Also, the OP never mentioned such a consideration, he just wants to offer his daughter the best he can....

Daedalus2000 said:

drpix said:

Why must she have a Leica of all cameras??? Especially one of the "rangefinder-type", difficult to focus in action! Or maybe it is only a "status symbol"? Then she´ll also need a Rolex and a Lexus
Andrzej
http://andrzejponiatowski.zenfolio.com/

Click to expand...

Can we please stop having all these comments about status symbols, how much money or cameras or lenses one has? I do not think that anyone in this forum has ever projected such an image, so I find it strange that it is mentioned so often for no good reason... None of us like the high Leica prices, but we have accepted them or bought in the second hand market. Also, the OP never mentioned such a consideration, he just wants to offer his daughter the best he can....

Click to expand...

D ...... you just can not shot a Leica without a Rolex , it's a an old rule ........ but a Lexus , nahh , it's not needed at all

To the OP ..... yes an M7 is forever , but inform you how the program school is , if it's based on digital then buy an M7 and a very very cheap digital point&shot

Best , Gianluca

--
Nothing to explain.....

janlu said:

Daedalus2000 said:

drpix said:

Why must she have a Leica of all cameras??? Especially one of the "rangefinder-type", difficult to focus in action! Or maybe it is only a "status symbol"? Then she´ll also need a Rolex and a Lexus
Andrzej
http://andrzejponiatowski.zenfolio.com/

Click to expand...

Can we please stop having all these comments about status symbols, how much money or cameras or lenses one has? I do not think that anyone in this forum has ever projected such an image, so I find it strange that it is mentioned so often for no good reason... None of us like the high Leica prices, but we have accepted them or bought in the second hand market. Also, the OP never mentioned such a consideration, he just wants to offer his daughter the best he can....

Click to expand...

D ...... you just can not shot a Leica without a Rolex , it's a an old rule ........ but a Lexus , nahh , it's not needed at all

Click to expand...

I just realised that my camera is more expensive than my car and my watch!!! I am disqualified from using a Leica!

Daedalus2000 said:

janlu said:

Daedalus2000 said:

drpix said:

Why must she have a Leica of all cameras??? Especially one of the "rangefinder-type", difficult to focus in action! Or maybe it is only a "status symbol"? Then she´ll also need a Rolex and a Lexus
Andrzej
http://andrzejponiatowski.zenfolio.com/

Click to expand...

Can we please stop having all these comments about status symbols, how much money or cameras or lenses one has? I do not think that anyone in this forum has ever projected such an image, so I find it strange that it is mentioned so often for no good reason... None of us like the high Leica prices, but we have accepted them or bought in the second hand market. Also, the OP never mentioned such a consideration, he just wants to offer his daughter the best he can....

Click to expand...

D ...... you just can not shot a Leica without a Rolex , it's a an old rule ........ but a Lexus , nahh , it's not needed at all

Click to expand...

I just realised that my camera is more expensive than my car and my watch!!! I am disqualified from using a Leica!

Click to expand...

...

janlu said:

Daedalus2000 said:

janlu said:

Daedalus2000 said:

drpix said:

Why must she have a Leica of all cameras??? Especially one of the "rangefinder-type", difficult to focus in action! Or maybe it is only a "status symbol"? Then she´ll also need a Rolex and a Lexus
Andrzej
http://andrzejponiatowski.zenfolio.com/

Click to expand...

Can we please stop having all these comments about status symbols, how much money or cameras or lenses one has? I do not think that anyone in this forum has ever projected such an image, so I find it strange that it is mentioned so often for no good reason... None of us like the high Leica prices, but we have accepted them or bought in the second hand market. Also, the OP never mentioned such a consideration, he just wants to offer his daughter the best he can....

Click to expand...

D ...... you just can not shot a Leica without a Rolex , it's a an old rule ........ but a Lexus , nahh , it's not needed at all

Click to expand...

I just realised that my camera is more expensive than my car and my watch!!! I am disqualified from using a Leica!

Click to expand...

...

Click to expand...

Also remember that the mother of the stupid comments is always pregnant .....

Gianluca

finally someone agrees with me ask your daughter what she needs for a camera

Might I suggest a Leica ME?

It would be new, with a full warranty, full frame and take quite a few lenses.

Some of the less expensive lenses from Voigtlander and Zeiss work very well and are not such a major investment until she learns what she wants exactly.

Photojournalism isn't so much the action stuff like sports so,the focus is quickly learned.

JDLaing said:

Might I suggest a Leica ME?

It would be new, with a full warranty, full frame and take quite a few lenses.

Some of the less expensive lenses from Voigtlander and Zeiss work very well and are not such a major investment until she learns what she wants exactly.

Photojournalism isn't so much the action stuff like sports so,the focus is quickly learned.

Click to expand...

Then get an A7s, as it can use both Leica M lenses, and autofocus Sony FE enses