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How much weight do you give DXOMark reviews?

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javiair

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Just asking how much do you give the reviews from a site like DXO and photozone? I know that the final decision is mine however I do like an unbiased opinion on camera equipment that Im looking to buy.

I have noticed that when a score is low for a camera that one likes the numbers are biased or scewed or didnt factor in all the numbers. An Example would be the Canon 6d or the 5d m3 vs the Nikon D610. The scores are not even close. But Im sure one could argue that the Canons are still far better despite the stats or say that DXOmark has to be taken with a grain of salt.

What do you guys think about sites like DXO or photozone that gives stats and graphs.. Are they legit scores or still very subjective?
 
javiair said:
Just asking how much do you give the reviews from a site like DXO and photozone? I know that the final decision is mine however I do like an unbiased opinion on camera equipment that Im looking to buy.

I have noticed that when a score is low for a camera that one likes the numbers are biased or scewed or didnt factor in all the numbers. An Example would be the Canon 6d or the 5d m3 vs the Nikon D610. The scores are not even close. But Im sure one could argue that the Canons are still far better despite the stats or say that DXOmark has to be taken with a grain of salt.

What do you guys think about sites like DXO or photozone that gives stats and graphs.. Are they legit scores or still very subjective?
Click to expand...
IMHO the "main" test sites are very objective but limited, and different, in what and how they test.

For example, DxOMark mainly test sensor performance for cameras. They do not look at for example, LV performance, AF accuracy, control layout, etc, etc, etc. Other sites do it differently.

The same for lenses; not all sites test for everything or exactly the same way. A previous post may be of use: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53457104

My suggestion is to read all the main test sites, understand what you are looking for in a camera / lens combination, and then, if you have questions, ask specific ones on this forum. There are some very, very knowledgeable and experienced members who can give very accurate specific advice. They have certainly helped me a lot in the past and I am very grateful for their insights. :-)

Good luck with your endeavours!
 
I've found photozone's lens tests to equal my own personal experiences. DXO much less so. I really put no weight into what DXO has to say about a camera or a lens. I still do some research before buying but that said, so far photozone has been spot on with their assessment of lenses I have owned.
 
Stacey_K said:
I've found photozone's lens tests to equal my own personal experiences. DXO much less so. I really put no weight into what DXO has to say about a camera or a lens. I still do some research before buying but that said, so far photozone has been spot on with their assessment of lenses I have owned.

--
Stacey
Click to expand...
+ 1.

I also like Photozone DE but I find that they can be very, very slow to test the "latest" Nikon lenses so they are often of any value to me.

Test sites that I usually visit, in no particular order, are:

DP Review

Photography Life

Camera Labs

bythom.com (Thom Hogan for Nikon)

Camera Labs

DxOMark

Lens Tip

ephotozine

Ming Thien

Plus, any group/forum that specialises in areas of interest for a particular piece of equipment, eg. birding, wildlife, strobe photography, etc

After I read through these (usually ignoring "sharpness" scores a get a pretty good picture about the strengths and weaknesses of a particular piece of equipment for my intend use.
 
javiair said:
Just asking how much do you give the reviews from a site like DXO and photozone? I know that the final decision is mine however I do like an unbiased opinion on camera equipment that Im looking to buy.

I have noticed that when a score is low for a camera that one likes the numbers are biased or scewed or didnt factor in all the numbers. An Example would be the Canon 6d or the 5d m3 vs the Nikon D610. The scores are not even close. But Im sure one could argue that the Canons are still far better despite the stats or say that DXOmark has to be taken with a grain of salt.

What do you guys think about sites like DXO or photozone that gives stats and graphs.. Are they legit scores or still very subjective?
Click to expand...
I believe the DxO scores for cameras. But they are testing sensor performance. Sensor performance is not the whole camera. I have no problem believing that the sensor in the D610 is better than the 5D MkIII. I also have no problem believing that the AF in the 5D beats the D610 or that the build quality is far better.

So don't be ruled by numbers alone.
 
I tend to place far more weight and value on DXOmarks body scores than I do their lens scores. Lens testing is vastly more complex and problematic because the test charts used live in the closer distance ranges and are two dimensional, shot in nice, even light. Lenses are an inherent set of tradeoffs (none are perfect - there is no perfect lens - it is impossible), and some perform better at distance than others, some have field curvature that affects how they score on a lens test site and so forth - so I strongly caution people from looking at one test sites "numbers" to judge lens purchases - it could be seriously misleading in terms of someone making an incorrect lens decision/purchase.

Body wise, one has to dig into the scores a bit and then think how much what they shoot personally might be affected. The reality that many fan boys won't like is that pretty much ANY modern DSLR, full frame or APS-C/DX crop, at base ISO and a few stops above it, is capable of seriously good results and unless one personally is within the top tier of people in terms of both their own skill level, and NEED (not want, but need), one is likely better buying the body that simply feels better to them as the CREATION PROCESS of taking images is more important than if one body scores an 80 and the other a 77 on some graph. At the same time, however, if one has particular needs - such as if someone wants to photograph their daughter in dance recitals in dim theater light at high ISO, then, yes, equipment might VERY MUCH matter, and a different set of decisions have to be made. There really isn't a simple answer. How one interacts with a camera and system is probably, for most people, more important than how the camera scores at DXO or elsewhere...

-m
 
It's nice to get a general positive concensus from several reputable reviewers, to begin my understanding how others percieve their particular copy. Especially for the few much higher priced pieces of photography gear.

Remember, some are impartial, while others are getting freebies and kick backs to show a positive referral.

I like an actual hands on test too, not a simple rewording of the ABC company webpage blurb.

Talking to other knowledgable photographers is a nice way to learn about new equipment and technique too...

Chas
 
anotherMike said:
I tend to place far more weight and value on DXOmarks body scores than I do their lens scores. Lens testing is vastly more complex and problematic because the test charts used live in the closer distance ranges and are two dimensional, shot in nice, even light. Lenses are an inherent set of tradeoffs (none are perfect - there is no perfect lens - it is impossible), and some perform better at distance than others, some have field curvature that affects how they score on a lens test site and so forth - so I strongly caution people from looking at one test sites "numbers" to judge lens purchases - it could be seriously misleading in terms of someone making an incorrect lens decision/purchase.

Body wise, one has to dig into the scores a bit and then think how much what they shoot personally might be affected. The reality that many fan boys won't like is that pretty much ANY modern DSLR, full frame or APS-C/DX crop, at base ISO and a few stops above it, is capable of seriously good results and unless one personally is within the top tier of people in terms of both their own skill level, and NEED (not want, but need), one is likely better buying the body that simply feels better to them as the CREATION PROCESS of taking images is more important than if one body scores an 80 and the other a 77 on some graph. At the same time, however, if one has particular needs - such as if someone wants to photograph their daughter in dance recitals in dim theater light at high ISO, then, yes, equipment might VERY MUCH matter, and a different set of decisions have to be made. There really isn't a simple answer. How one interacts with a camera and system is probably, for most people, more important than how the camera scores at DXO or elsewhere...

-m
Click to expand...
+ 1
 
TQGroup said:
anotherMike said:
I tend to place far more weight and value on DXOmarks body scores than I do their lens scores. Lens testing is vastly more complex and problematic because the test charts used live in the closer distance ranges and are two dimensional, shot in nice, even light. Lenses are an inherent set of tradeoffs (none are perfect - there is no perfect lens - it is impossible), and some perform better at distance than others, some have field curvature that affects how they score on a lens test site and so forth - so I strongly caution people from looking at one test sites "numbers" to judge lens purchases - it could be seriously misleading in terms of someone making an incorrect lens decision/purchase.

Body wise, one has to dig into the scores a bit and then think how much what they shoot personally might be affected. The reality that many fan boys won't like is that pretty much ANY modern DSLR, full frame or APS-C/DX crop, at base ISO and a few stops above it, is capable of seriously good results and unless one personally is within the top tier of people in terms of both their own skill level, and NEED (not want, but need), one is likely better buying the body that simply feels better to them as the CREATION PROCESS of taking images is more important than if one body scores an 80 and the other a 77 on some graph. At the same time, however, if one has particular needs - such as if someone wants to photograph their daughter in dance recitals in dim theater light at high ISO, then, yes, equipment might VERY MUCH matter, and a different set of decisions have to be made. There really isn't a simple answer. How one interacts with a camera and system is probably, for most people, more important than how the camera scores at DXO or elsewhere...

-m
Click to expand...
+ 1
Click to expand...
+2. Right on the money, IMO.
 
javiair said:
Just asking how much do you give the reviews from a site like DXO and photozone? I know that the final decision is mine however I do like an unbiased opinion on camera equipment that Im looking to buy.

I have noticed that when a score is low for a camera that one likes the numbers are biased or scewed or didnt factor in all the numbers. An Example would be the Canon 6d or the 5d m3 vs the Nikon D610. The scores are not even close. But Im sure one could argue that the Canons are still far better despite the stats or say that DXOmark has to be taken with a grain of salt.

What do you guys think about sites like DXO or photozone that gives stats and graphs.. Are they legit scores or still very subjective?
Click to expand...
Having had many of the current FF cameras from Nikon, Canon and Sony, I would say their sensor mark matches very closely to the real life image quality. DxO Mark has never pretended they are testing the camera as a whole so reading reviews from DPReview can be helpful as well.

However, their lens score really sucks. The IQ of a lens simplified into a single pmx score instead of a more comparable MTF at various aperture and various focal lengths. Any review of lenses from DPReview, SLRgear, Photodo, Photozone etc etc are much better.
 
TQGroup said:
javiair said:
Just asking how much do you give the reviews from a site like DXO and photozone? I know that the final decision is mine however I do like an unbiased opinion on camera equipment that Im looking to buy.

I have noticed that when a score is low for a camera that one likes the numbers are biased or scewed or didnt factor in all the numbers. An Example would be the Canon 6d or the 5d m3 vs the Nikon D610. The scores are not even close. But Im sure one could argue that the Canons are still far better despite the stats or say that DXOmark has to be taken with a grain of salt.

What do you guys think about sites like DXO or photozone that gives stats and graphs.. Are they legit scores or still very subjective?
Click to expand...
IMHO the "main" test sites are very objective but limited, and different, in what and how they test.

For example, DxOMark mainly test sensor performance for cameras. They do not look at for example, LV performance, AF accuracy, control layout, etc, etc, etc. Other sites do it differently.

The same for lenses; not all sites test for everything or exactly the same way. A previous post may be of use: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53457104

My suggestion is to read all the main test sites, understand what you are looking for in a camera / lens combination, and then, if you have questions, ask specific ones on this forum. There are some very, very knowledgeable and experienced members who can give very accurate specific advice. They have certainly helped me a lot in the past and I am very grateful for their insights. :-)

Good luck with your endeavours!
Click to expand...
Well....TQGroup I believe their lens reviews based on the combination of a body and a lens....Please check yourself the lens comparison using DxO Lens comparison chart. This sometimes help but for reality, their lens score does not help.
 
Never read the dxo site... and frankly don't give very much weight to reviews.

Much prefer actual users' experiences, if in doubt. Like here on dpreview.
 
Mark K said:
TQGroup said:
javiair said:
Just asking how much do you give the reviews from a site like DXO and photozone? I know that the final decision is mine however I do like an unbiased opinion on camera equipment that Im looking to buy.

I have noticed that when a score is low for a camera that one likes the numbers are biased or scewed or didnt factor in all the numbers. An Example would be the Canon 6d or the 5d m3 vs the Nikon D610. The scores are not even close. But Im sure one could argue that the Canons are still far better despite the stats or say that DXOmark has to be taken with a grain of salt.

What do you guys think about sites like DXO or photozone that gives stats and graphs.. Are they legit scores or still very subjective?
Click to expand...
IMHO the "main" test sites are very objective but limited, and different, in what and how they test.

For example, DxOMark mainly test sensor performance for cameras. They do not look at for example, LV performance, AF accuracy, control layout, etc, etc, etc. Other sites do it differently.

The same for lenses; not all sites test for everything or exactly the same way. A previous post may be of use: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53457104

My suggestion is to read all the main test sites, understand what you are looking for in a camera / lens combination, and then, if you have questions, ask specific ones on this forum. There are some very, very knowledgeable and experienced members who can give very accurate specific advice. They have certainly helped me a lot in the past and I am very grateful for their insights. :-)

Good luck with your endeavours!
Click to expand...
Well....TQGroup I believe their lens reviews based on the combination of a body and a lens....Please check yourself the lens comparison using DxO Lens comparison chart. This sometimes help but for reality, their lens score does not help.

--
Mark K
Click to expand...
Thanks for making that point Mark. I missed that point trying to be brief as I do use that lens / sensor comparison to understand the performance differences of a particular lens on different camera sensors. To my knowledge, DxOMark are the only ones doing this type of analysis.

Cheers Andrew
 
I personally would go with what you feel happy with. I know this is rather vague, but you need to test and see what you like. Real world experience cannot compare to a lab test.



I was out yesterday in France on my way to a shoot with a D4s 70-200mm.. I saw a scene I wanted to capture. The nearest thing I had to a wide angle was my iphone! Now, the D4s lab test against the iPhone??.......



Real world testing.. as long as you get the photo you want, it doesn't matter what you take it with. I know this doesn't directly answer your question but might give you food for thought. Here is the image from the iPhone..



d2c5083eb1ae4011b702a084df76e43c.jpg



--

Loading…

www.garethsquance.com
 
Let me explain. While the numbers often do not reflect exact real world performance of the cameras, they ARE extremely consistent as a baseline comparison between brands.

Its a lot like looking at two prints of the same shot, but processed from different people. Look at one......then later look at the other, both might seem very close and you would see little difference. But...put both side by side and you will see a WORLD of difference.

DXO is a great side by side reference. Because the numbers they DO get mean something, and they are rather consistent in their testing methods....despite the fact the clinicality of the methods don't often pan out to real world results when you take the human element into account for how to extract the most from each cameras files.

So I pay VERY close attention to the stats posted....then I look at reviews for supplemental information......like how the files perform during shadow recovery, or....the ergonomics of the hardware, feature sets...etc.

But because of DXO...I know I can buy say....a D7100 and a D3200 and get fairly similar results and quality from the files.

Hope this helps...

Roman
 
Bodies yes, lenses not at all. DXO does a composite voodoo score for lenses which is not useful to me. Cameralabs is far better for lenses, testing using real world subjects at different distances.
 
Very little. There are limited number of lens for your particular application. You know best, and other considerations, like cost, come into play in selecting lens. I go with the pros. If it is good enough for them, it's good enough for me. End of selection criteria.

BTW, is there a substitute for a AF-S 400mm f2.8? Not. :)
 
javiair said:
Just asking how much do you give the reviews from a site like DXO and photozone? I know that the final decision is mine however I do like an unbiased opinion on camera equipment that Im looking to buy.

I have noticed that when a score is low for a camera that one likes the numbers are biased or scewed or didnt factor in all the numbers. An Example would be the Canon 6d or the 5d m3 vs the Nikon D610. The scores are not even close. But Im sure one could argue that the Canons are still far better despite the stats or say that DXOmark has to be taken with a grain of salt.

What do you guys think about sites like DXO or photozone that gives stats and graphs.. Are they legit scores or still very subjective?
Click to expand...
what DXO provide is very good

The values the Nikons are better on, they indeed are better. Canon has lagged with sensors the last few years

however the big caveat is to look along the curve, and not the summary scores. As a sensor's DR might be excellent at base iso and terrible later on, whereas you might require a flatter curve

Also DXO does not cover draw and relative colours, which is big for character and very subjective
 
wasserball said:
Very little. There are limited number of lens for your particular application. You know best, and other considerations, like cost, come into play in selecting lens. I go with the pros. If it is good enough for them, it's good enough for me. End of selection criteria.

BTW, is there a substitute for a AF-S 400mm f2.8? Not. :)
Click to expand...
With a 4 KG weight, lens only... :-(
 
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