What's Happened to Canon

Lisetta · Mar 10, 2014

I don't know how representative I am...maybe I am.

I started out with a Canon SLR and have had Canons ever since, finally transitioning to digital with Canon SX40. When I felt like getting a new bridge cam, the SX50 just wasn't "different" enough, or rather, its improvements just didn't draw me in much.

I waited for the SX60 and was told by someone who works for Canon that they were not going to have one--and were pretty much fazing out a lot of point and shoots due to competition from cell phones. It was going to be dslrs and 4/3, very little in the area I was looking at.

So I started looking at the other bridge cameras from other companies. Finally settled on a FUJI X-S1, which I like a great deal. I just still peek in here to see photos or get some general tips/ideas.

But as for Canon? I feel they have no interest in consumers like me, I'm enjoying my x-S1 and am kind of done with them.

panamforeman · Mar 10, 2014

Miss tilly said:
I know this has been discussed before but I honestly feel a G series forum would revive the Canon forums. This is by no means a slight on the SX series which are clearly excellent cameras. I just feel, as a G series enthusiast more posts specific to my interest would generate more discussion.

Couldn't agree more.

I posted this earlier on Feedback & Suggestions. Didn't get much of a response from the "powers- that-be" though.

There should be a separate Forum for the "G" (11,12,15,16, G1X, G1X II) & "S" (90,95,100,110,120) series cameras. Instead of being lumped in with all cameras designated as "Powershots", of which there are over 20, besides the "S" & "G" series, if I counted correctly. On any given day on the Forum labeled Powershot, half or more are taken up by SX40 & 50s and all the other lesser cameras that make-up the Powershot forum. I'm sure the SX40 & 50 etc. are all good cameras for what they were designed for, but they are definitely outclassed by the S & G series cameras, if for no other reason than they have added features for the Pro or advanced amateur; and usually they cost more.

Now, if I have offended the SX40/50s and other Powershot people etc., I apologize. But holy yawn, you guys are blabby to a fault, and posting strings of your nature/birds photos. And there are Forums at Dprerview for Nature, Landscapes, Wildlife and Travel, etc. Which seems to be your main topic of interest.

As for the G & S series: The posts for those cameras on the Powershot forum seem to be much more technically oriented. Even most of the photos that are posted for the G & S cameras are usually used to prove a technical point, whether good or faulty about the camera, and spark spirited debate about this or that technical plus or minus.

So, yes indeed! A separate Forum for all the G & S series cameras is sorely needed. At least the Powershot Forum would be less cluttered. Again, nothing against the Bird & Nature lovers, but "Techies" are of a different mindset.

Well that elicited some negative comments. Namely, that I hate bird-lovers, which is not true.

I responded:

On the contrary I love birds, and have spent hours photographing them. My favorites are Humming Birds. But people who spend most of their time on birds and wildlife need to post in the Forum dedicated to Nature and Wildlife. I think they would find it edifying and certainly more satisfying.

I'm also a amateur photographer. I love all the technical aspects of cameras and like discussing them on the forums, even with the nay-sayers, trollers and negative types. It's bad enough having to wade thru all of those guys and, in addition, all the nature lovers with their SX 40s/50s bird and landscape shots etc. On any given day they take up half or more of the forum.

I'm just saying that for the more technical aspects of certain cameras, such as the S110 etc. & G15/16 series, G1X(II) etc., they would be better served with their own forum.

Such a request or idea isn't unreasonably for the birds!

justmeMN · Mar 10, 2014

RedFox88 said:
The P&S camera market is near dead. All that is "really" left is high end models and ones with 10x or more, and a waterproof model. Everything else will be gone within 2 years.

"Canon expects to sell 7.6 million single-lens reflex cameras in 2014, which is 50,000 fewer than last year, while sales of compact models are forecast to drop 20 percent to 10.5 million units, the company said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...-below-analyst-estimates-on-camera-slump.html

In spite of significantly declining sales, 10.5 million is still a lot of compact cameras.

Grobb · Mar 10, 2014

justmeMN said:
justmeMN said:

The P&S camera market is near dead. All that is "really" left is high end models and ones with 10x or more, and a waterproof model. Everything else will be gone within 2 years.

Click to expand...

"Canon expects to sell 7.6 million single-lens reflex cameras in 2014, which is 50,000 fewer than last year, while sales of compact models are forecast to drop 20 percent to 10.5 million units, the company said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...-below-analyst-estimates-on-camera-slump.html

In spite of significantly declining sales, 10.5 million is still a lot of compact cameras.

"Worldwide smartphone sales to end users reached 250.2 million units, up 45.8 percent from the third quarter of 2012". http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2623415

It seems like cell phone sales are growing much more than pinhead sensor P&S's AND the cameras in them are getting much better every year. My HTC One takes very similar images as most P&S's for Internet and email sharing, and, it is always with me. If P&S's do not go away from 1/2.3"-1/1.7" sensors and make 1" sensors the standard, they will significantly decline much worse in the next few years. Sony (and now Nikon) is going to force not only Canon, but all other manufacturers to fall even father behind and loose even more money. It's time to either get with the times or get out of the business. Good enough IQ is no longer good enough, for some people, it's time to take fixed lens cameras to the next level, IMHO!

--
Growing old is inevitable, Growing up is optional!

KJaay · Mar 10, 2014

Well said.

coody · Mar 10, 2014

[No message]

Britney Elvis · Mar 11, 2014

panamforeman said:
Miss tilly said:

I know this has been discussed before but I honestly feel a G series forum would revive the Canon forums. This is by no means a slight on the SX series which are clearly excellent cameras. I just feel, as a G series enthusiast more posts specific to my interest would generate more discussion.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.

I posted this earlier on Feedback & Suggestions. Didn't get much of a response from the "powers- that-be" though.

There should be a separate Forum for the "G" (11,12,15,16, G1X, G1X II) & "S" (90,95,100,110,120) series cameras. Instead of being lumped in with all cameras designated as "Powershots", of which there are over 20, besides the "S" & "G" series, if I counted correctly. On any given day on the Forum labeled Powershot, half or more are taken up by SX40 & 50s and all the other lesser cameras that make-up the Powershot forum. I'm sure the SX40 & 50 etc. are all good cameras for what they were designed for, but they are definitely outclassed by the S & G series cameras, if for no other reason than they have added features for the Pro or advanced amateur; and usually they cost more.

Now, if I have offended the SX40/50s and other Powershot people etc., I apologize. But holy yawn, you guys are blabby to a fault, and posting strings of your nature/birds photos. And there are Forums at Dprerview for Nature, Landscapes, Wildlife and Travel, etc. Which seems to be your main topic of interest.

As for the G & S series: The posts for those cameras on the Powershot forum seem to be much more technically oriented. Even most of the photos that are posted for the G & S cameras are usually used to prove a technical point, whether good or faulty about the camera, and spark spirited debate about this or that technical plus or minus.

So, yes indeed! A separate Forum for all the G & S series cameras is sorely needed. At least the Powershot Forum would be less cluttered. Again, nothing against the Bird & Nature lovers, but "Techies" are of a different mindset.

Well that elicited some negative comments. Namely, that I hate bird-lovers, which is not true.

I responded:

On the contrary I love birds, and have spent hours photographing them. My favorites are Humming Birds. But people who spend most of their time on birds and wildlife need to post in the Forum dedicated to Nature and Wildlife. I think they would find it edifying and certainly more satisfying.

I'm also a amateur photographer. I love all the technical aspects of cameras and like discussing them on the forums, even with the nay-sayers, trollers and negative types. It's bad enough having to wade thru all of those guys and, in addition, all the nature lovers with their SX 40s/50s bird and landscape shots etc. On any given day they take up half or more of the forum.

I'm just saying that for the more technical aspects of certain cameras, such as the S110 etc. & G15/16 series, G1X(II) etc., they would be better served with their own forum.

Such a request or idea isn't unreasonably for the birds!

--Oh, but the G folks are so boring and snoody... who would visit that forum?

Actually, it might be a good idea to give them their own forum, that way they could look down their noses at each other and post their b&w street scenes till their little dark hearts content

kidding of course...

gus

"It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them."
~~ Pierre Beaumarchais~~

toomanycanons · Mar 11, 2014

Ed B said:
I don't post much in this forum anymore because I don't own a Canon compact camera but I've always liked Canon and do like to read some of the comments about their latest cameras.

I'm surprised this forum has become one of the least popular (used) on DPR with a weeks worth of comments on the first page. There was a time when page one, of this forum, only covered a few hours of comments and new posts.

Maybe people just don't have much to say anymore.

Give us the reasons why you don't post in this forum much anymore then apply the same reasons to everyone else--result? Forum inactivity.

howardroark · Mar 11, 2014

tron555 said:
justmeMN said:

Grobb said:

The P&S camera market is near dead. All that is "really" left is high end models and ones with 10x or more, and a waterproof model. Everything else will be gone within 2 years.

Click to expand...

"Canon expects to sell 7.6 million single-lens reflex cameras in 2014, which is 50,000 fewer than last year, while sales of compact models are forecast to drop 20 percent to 10.5 million units, the company said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...-below-analyst-estimates-on-camera-slump.html

In spite of significantly declining sales, 10.5 million is still a lot of compact cameras.

Click to expand...

"Worldwide smartphone sales to end users reached 250.2 million units, up 45.8 percent from the third quarter of 2012". http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2623415

The first semi-useful smartphone with a decent camera on it was the iPhone released in 2007 and cost $500 with 4GB of memory....and you HAD to sign a two year contract with data to get it. A subsidized phone for $500 is bonkers, but even today a decent phone without a contract is around $400-$500, so seven years ago it made sense for a phone to really cost over a grand. Anyway, the point is it has only been the last few years that you could get a smartphone that wasn't awful for no down payment if you signed a contract.

Grobb said:
It seems like cell phone sales are growing much more than pinhead sensor P&S's AND the cameras in them are getting much better every year.

Indeed, but they also do things like make phone calls, send texts, play games, and hit unsaturated markets constantly....heck, the iPhone just made it to China like two days ago. Just wait, smartphone sales will slack off once people get sick of feeling like dirt with every Facebook post they read. A good flip phone with a great camera will take over the world in a few years when people don't want to numb their brains with constant input that won't allow them to feel emotions any longer. Without lows you can't have highs, and phones are keeping us at a constant state of neutrality and cause more conflicts than they solve (not returning a text right away is an unforgivable sin and people give you five minutes notice to meet somewhere because instant gratification is the norm rather than making plans a day ahead of time and actually thinking about it for a few minutes).

Grobb said:
My HTC One takes very similar images as most P&S's for Internet and email sharing, and, it is always with me.

Handy, but no soul. I dig my iPhone camera, but it takes pictures that wouldn't exist otherwise rather than replacing other cameras.

Grobb said:
If P&S's do not go away from 1/2.3"-1/1.7" sensors and make 1" sensors the standard, they will significantly decline much worse in the next few years.

Of course they will. Technology has plateaued and without great leaps and bounds markets saturate and it becomes a commodity item with very slim profit margins rather than the new big thing like they were ten years ago.

Grobb said:
Sony (and now Nikon) is going to force not only Canon

They've had ten years to do it and still have to settle for table scraps from Canon. And Canon's sensors are still pretty amazing considering they impliment technology nobody else has. Once a fast processor is cheap enough their DP PDAF will also be a mature technology and will blow people away.

Grobb said:
, but all other manufacturers to fall even father behind and loose even more money.

When did Canon start losing money?

Grobb said:
It's time to either get with the times or get out of the business. Good enough IQ is no longer good enough, for some people, it's time to take fixed lens cameras to the next level, IMHO!

Enter the G1 X Mark II.

Grobb said:
--
Growing old is inevitable, Growing up is optional!

Grobb · Mar 11, 2014

Ed B said:
I'm surprised this forum has become one of the least popular (used) on DPR with a weeks worth of comments on the first page. There was a time when page one, of this forum, only covered a few hours of comments and new posts.

Maybe people just don't have much to say anymore.

Besides the resent G1X upgrade, new revision (whatever), what else has Canon done that you would say was outstanding or extraordinary in any of it's fixed lens cameras in the past 2-3 years?

It seems like they add a few features and take a few away, give them new names and raise the price. Have they greatly improved their sensor technology or IQ? Have they increased the size of the sensors in their S or G series cameras? OK, they have increased the lens speed and AF a bit, but so has every other manufacturer. I sure hope Canon is not planning on putting the same old 2 year old sensor from the G1X into the new G1X2. I am considering upgrading my G12 to the G1X2, but not for older technology. I'm sure once the G1X2 is released, this forum will pickup again, for a month or so :-|

howardroark · Mar 11, 2014

tron555 said:
Ed B said:

I'm surprised this forum has become one of the least popular (used) on DPR with a weeks worth of comments on the first page. There was a time when page one, of this forum, only covered a few hours of comments and new posts.

Maybe people just don't have much to say anymore.

Click to expand...

Besides the resent G1X upgrade, new revision (whatever), what else has Canon done that you would say was outstanding or extraordinary in any of it's fixed lens cameras in the past 2-3 years?

Seriously? The first company to create a large-sensor compact with a zoom lens and for under a grand? The G1 X is the first of its kind, and not only that it is one of a kind since nobody else has had the guts to put a 1.5" sensor behind a zoom lens. Yeah, you can get Sony's large sensor compacts with a fixed focal length and for a couple of grand, but the G1 X is actually affordable and useful. And really the whole P&S market is boring as all get out in general. Who is doing anything really amazing here?

Grobb said:
It seems like they add a few features and take a few away, give them new names and raise the price.

We have such First World problems.

Grobb said:
Have they greatly improved their sensor technology or IQ?

Nobody else has DP PDAF. Doubt that will make it to compacts for a while at least. Still, are we greatly lacking in IQ?

Grobb said:
Have they increased the size of the sensors in their S or G series cameras?

Those models are defined by their sensor size and on commercial level they can't change. That's why Canon went with a new name for the G1 X....which is exactly the larger sensor you're talking about. Would rather they had called it the G16, increased the price, and quit making a camera that uses a sensor somewhere between 1.5" and the typical tiny P&S?

Grobb said:
OK, they have increased the lens speed and AF a bit, but so has every other manufacturer. I sure hope Canon is not planning on putting the same old 2 year old sensor from the G1X into the new G1X2.

Even if they do it will produce amazing images. Don't forget that the lens is pretty important when it comes to producing good levels of detail and accurate color.

Grobb said:
I am considering upgrading my G12 to the G1X2, but not for older technology. I'm sure once the G1X2 is released, this forum will pickup again, for a month or so :-|

Yep.

Grobb said:
--
Growing old is inevitable, Growing up is optional!

RedFox88 · Mar 11, 2014

justmeMN said:
justmeMN said:

The P&S camera market is near dead. All that is "really" left is high end models and ones with 10x or more, and a waterproof model. Everything else will be gone within 2 years.

Click to expand...

"Canon expects to sell 7.6 million single-lens reflex cameras in 2014, which is 50,000 fewer than last year, while sales of compact models are forecast to drop 20 percent to 10.5 million units, the company said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...-below-analyst-estimates-on-camera-slump.html

In spite of significantly declining sales, 10.5 million is still a lot of compact cameras.

But they used to sell about 18,000,000 to 20,000,000 P&S cameras! That's about half what they sold just in 2010! Imagine half of your business dropping by 50%!

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What's Happened to Canon

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