Saving the compact camera

itsastickup said:

To contradict Canon, I think smartphones are the enemy.

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Canon is nonchalant about cellphone as enemy since Canon generate majority of its profit from high end professional DSLR. Smartphone will never replaced the professional DSLR, so Canon has little to worry about.

But Compact are toast, without or without canon. I for one, don't think its worth any INVESTMENT to salvalge what is already DEAD. Ask yourself,

Why would anyone buy a dedicated $120 iPOD for MP3 when a smartphone that play + stream music go as low as $59 (Nokia 520)?

Why would anyone want to buy a dedicated Alarm Clock, dedicated Radio, dedicated PDA, dedicated camera/

Its time to move on. Just watch this Apple's commercial, and you're understand its a cause that was already lost a while ago:

Save photography, not certain cameras or brands. I wonder if polaroid instant film cameras owners railed against compact digital cameras like this. Rejoice in the explosion of pictures taken and available instead of lamenting technology that has passed by.



Right now I think the rugged and waterproof cameras that can go where our expensive cell phones can't, is the way to go. I had great fun using my compact camera at the Atlantis water park, on waterslides, and while kayaking. I kept it in my swim trunk's side pockets the whole time. Would be nice to be able to take them diving 100 feet down without external cases.



Here is a picture of Atlantis' pro photographer with his compact waterproof camera. Guy standing in center. He was selling pictures of people on the Lazy River rapids. But, no sale to me since I had my own I didn't see anyone with a $500 smart phone in the water.

MysteryLemon said:

Seriously. The compact camera as a consumer tool doesn't need saving. It's already dead, and no fancy marketing or gimmicky functions is going to draw the consumer away from their smartphones.

For the consumer, it's all about ease of use and convenience. Carrying a dedicated camera and a phone around with you isn't convenient. Nor is it to have to remove the SD card to plug into a PC to then upload to facebook. Yes, there are wifi cameras these days but they are cumbersome and slow to use. The smartphone can so all this without even leaving the camera app, and the difference in image quality really isn't that far off, especially when all you do is upload them to facebook where they are resized and compressed anyway.

Camera manufacturers took FAR too long to get with the times. Facebook has been around for 10 years, the smartphone almost the same. Why are we only JUST seeing wifi enabled cameras?

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Perhaps because they didn't have you working for them?

MysteryLemon said:

People who want or need a good camera for image quality these days buy a DSLR or Mirrorless. Everyone else just uses their phone. The consumer compact doesn't even get a second thought. Let it die. No one wants them any more.

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meland said:

MysteryLemon said:

Seriously. The compact camera as a consumer tool doesn't need saving. It's already dead, and no fancy marketing or gimmicky functions is going to draw the consumer away from their smartphones.

For the consumer, it's all about ease of use and convenience. Carrying a dedicated camera and a phone around with you isn't convenient. Nor is it to have to remove the SD card to plug into a PC to then upload to facebook. Yes, there are wifi cameras these days but they are cumbersome and slow to use. The smartphone can so all this without even leaving the camera app, and the difference in image quality really isn't that far off, especially when all you do is upload them to facebook where they are resized and compressed anyway.

Camera manufacturers took FAR too long to get with the times. Facebook has been around for 10 years, the smartphone almost the same. Why are we only JUST seeing wifi enabled cameras?

Click to expand...

Perhaps because they didn't have you working for them?

Member said:

People who want or need a good camera for image quality these days buy a DSLR or Mirrorless. Everyone else just uses their phone. The consumer compact doesn't even get a second thought. Let it die. No one wants them any more.

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I don't get your point?

Cameras have only just started coming out with tech that phones have had for a decade. Maybe if they had kept up with the game instead of chasing mega pixels, they wouldnt be in the situation they are today with a whole range of cameras that no one wants.

007peter said:

itsastickup said:

To contradict Canon, I think smartphones are the enemy.

Click to expand...

Canon is nonchalant about cellphone as enemy since Canon generate majority of its profit from high end professional DSLR. Smartphone will never replaced the professional DSLR, so Canon has little to worry about.

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Actually, and whatever might have been said in an interview, I don't think they are quite as nonchalant as you think. Back in 2002/2003 Canon had a task force to evaluate the viability of a partnership with Ericsson. Unfortunately perhaps (with hindsight) it came to nothing and as we know Ericsson went to Sony instead, but even at that time Canon were aware of the threat of the phone manufacturers.

However I do need to correct part of your statement. Cameraphones may not replace the professional DSLR however they do take away a large segment of a feeder segment of people who might eventually progress to DSLRs. If cameraphones are 'good enough' for the majority of their users then there could be less incentive for most to wish for something better. Therefore people who might have had their interest sparked by trying to get better results may not progress to DSLRs (or CSCs).

Secondly Canon generates most of its profits not from high end DSLRs but from the lower priced models which is where the volume is. The rule of thumb is that the XXX series sell roughly 10x the number of the XX series, which in turn sell 10X the number of X series. The profit per unit of the higher end models is greater of course and the ratio of lenses per body is also higher at the top end, but volume is really what generates the profits.

MysteryLemon said:

meland said:

MysteryLemon said:

Seriously. The compact camera as a consumer tool doesn't need saving. It's already dead, and no fancy marketing or gimmicky functions is going to draw the consumer away from their smartphones.

For the consumer, it's all about ease of use and convenience. Carrying a dedicated camera and a phone around with you isn't convenient. Nor is it to have to remove the SD card to plug into a PC to then upload to facebook. Yes, there are wifi cameras these days but they are cumbersome and slow to use. The smartphone can so all this without even leaving the camera app, and the difference in image quality really isn't that far off, especially when all you do is upload them to facebook where they are resized and compressed anyway.

Camera manufacturers took FAR too long to get with the times. Facebook has been around for 10 years, the smartphone almost the same. Why are we only JUST seeing wifi enabled cameras?

Click to expand...

Perhaps because they didn't have you working for them?

MysteryLemon said:

People who want or need a good camera for image quality these days buy a DSLR or Mirrorless. Everyone else just uses their phone. The consumer compact doesn't even get a second thought. Let it die. No one wants them any more.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I don't get your point?

Cameras have only just started coming out with tech that phones have had for a decade. Maybe if they had kept up with the game instead of chasing mega pixels, they wouldnt be in the situation they are today with a whole range of cameras that no one wants.

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I was referring to your PhD in hindsight. ;-)

ZX11 said:

Save photography, not certain cameras or brands. I wonder if polaroid instant film cameras owners railed against compact digital cameras like this. Rejoice in the explosion of pictures taken and available instead of lamenting technology that has passed by.

Right now I think the rugged and waterproof cameras that can go where our expensive cell phones can't, is the way to go. I had great fun using my compact camera at the Atlantis water park, on waterslides, and while kayaking. I kept it in my swim trunk's side pockets the whole time. Would be nice to be able to take them diving 100 feet down without external cases.

Here is a picture of Atlantis' pro photographer with his compact waterproof camera. Guy standing in center. He was selling pictures of people on the Lazy River rapids. But, no sale to me since I had my own I didn't see anyone with a $500 smart phone in the water.

Click to expand...

Perhaps because the phone companies haven't really started making waterproof camerphones yet?

MoreorLess said:

meland said:

Well the minute we start using terms like 'hipsters' we are probably years out of date already.

In my opinion the cheaper end of the compact camera market is already gone and there is no point in trying to protect it.

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Realistically I think that the cheaper end of the compact market was already dying when it became cheap. You look back 10-15 years and low end compacts where being sold for sub $150 that they have been for recent years.

MoreorLess said:

Smartphone users are already happy with what they offer, other than perhaps zoom range, so the only people to whom you are going to be able to sell a low MP APS-C sensor with a quality f2.8 35mm lens, for some DOF control and ultra high ISO and DR, are a few enthusiasts and that's a tiny market. Not saying it's not a good niche idea but it isn't going to rescue the compact market.

No, I suspect the battle ground will move to relatively large sensored, fixed zoom cameras. And when I say relatively large, I mean probably about 1". Such cameras can offer impressive zoom ranges, be reasonably sized and offer an appreciable advantage to a smartphone user who wants more - but without going to the expense or fuss of either a DSLR or mirrorless CSC.

Nikon got lambasted for their 1 Series but I suspect they were probably just a bit early for their intended market and history may well prove them to be right.

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The problem with the Nikon 1 series for me is that it doesn't really exploit its smaller sensor offering no size or cost saving relative to m43 options.

Nikon need to be saving a lot more size than they have thus far, especially in the lenses.

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Yes the current Nikon is by no means perfect. It falls between two stools in that it doesn't really appeal to enthusiasts and it's not small enough to gain mass appeal. But with its relatively small sensor (but large compared with cameraphones) it does have the potential to have smaller bodies and certainly smaller lenses. And remember the market for such a device is not really enthusiasts like you who will look for the very best IQ, but the non-enthusiast segment who place as much value on convenience.

Because the lens would be too large for the phone to maintain what we think of now as a typical phone form factor. Phones stay thin by using tiny lenses on tiny sensors, at least with current technology.

Of course everyone can look back and say what someone should have done, but the fact is, the smart phone hasn't just taken over in the last week or two. It's been a good 3-4 years since people started seriously ditching their compacts and going for a better smart phone as an all in one device...

Camera manufacturers have been very slow to react. Only Samsung seem to be on the ball with their android based compact cameras. All they need to do now is included a sim card slot and let them make calls via 3g and a bluetooth headset.

Just look at the Samsung S4 Zoom.. Not that great a phone or camera but a step in the right direction I think.

MysteryLemon said:

Of course everyone can look back and say what someone should have done, but the fact is, the smart phone hasn't just taken over in the last week or two. It's been a good 3-4 years since people started seriously ditching their compacts and going for a better smart phone as an all in one device...

Camera manufacturers have been very slow to react. Only Samsung seem to be on the ball with their android based compact cameras. All they need to do now is included a sim card slot and let them make calls via 3g and a bluetooth headset.

Just look at the Samsung S4 Zoom.. Not that great a phone or camera but a step in the right direction I think.

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Perhaps the fact that Samsung is also a mobile phone manufacturer has something to do with all of that?

Member said:

Perhaps because the phone companies haven't really started making waterproof camerphones yet?

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And won't for a while because people want sleek and small smart phones that are easy to carry. How many people will ever give up the iPhone for a bulky waterproof version? Those people are open to gear that can go where the camera phone can't. A waterproof camera fills the need to photograph and post everything they do.



I picked up the a waterproof compact camera when I had no interest in photography other than snaps for the family. First camera I bought in 5 years. I had just got a couple kayaks and wanted something that wouldn't be destroyed the first time it was dropped in the water.

Smartphone innovation is heading to eliminate the compact camera. Innovation at the sensor and chip level. Recently Samsung introduced the S5 with a 13 meg camera but recommends shooting 5mg for storage reqts. This is the start for companies to develop a sensor, chip, storage solution in compression technology. I am a senior still happy with my flip phone but have implemented Oracle software in a major steel company back in 2005 and set up massive training for 20000 employees nationwide. I have witnessed an incredible technological advances in automotive wizardy and the over 500hp cars are more than anytime in history of muscle cars. Technology is driving this amazing evolution. The compact camera will die and a new and innovated smartphone will evolve. 80% on smartphones today and what about tomorrow?