sony IBIS with manual lenses (lens without the chip)?

Ari Aikomus · Feb 28, 2014

Hi,

How Sony's image stabilization (steady shot) works with fully manual lenses without any electronics?

For example I have samyang 8mm fisheye, should I turn the stabilizer completely off with that (fully manual) wide angle lens?

I remember that I have read that the Sony stabilizer operates at 50mm value (as default), when manual lens mounted...

regards,

Ari

kartikjayaraman · Feb 28, 2014

Ari Aikomus said:
Hi,

How Sony's image stabilization (steady shot) works with fully manual lenses without any electronics?

For example I have samyang 8mm fisheye, should I turn the stabilizer completely off with that (fully manual) wide angle lens?

I remember that I have read that the Sony stabilizer operates at 50mm value (as default), when manual lens mounted...

regards,

Ari

--
- Ari Aikomus -
'Why should I feel lonely ? is not our planet in the Milky way?'

I think IBIS (body stabilization) has nothing to do with lenses (OSS is for lenses like Sigma). As long as you are shooting 1/f or faster shutter speed, IS of any kind most likely won't come into play with any lens. Sony recommends turning IBIS (SteadyShot) off when using a tripod. Other than that there are no lens specific IBIS instructions to be followed, IMO.

For an 8mm lens, your minimum hand held shutter speed will be faster of 1/8 OR 1/80 (which is what most humans can hand hold without shake). As long as you are above those speeds, IS is irrelevant.

I hope my understanding is correct, would like to hear from other users as well.

--
My most interesting photos on FlickRiver: http://www.flickriver.com/photos/djkj/popular-interesting
My Flickr page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/djkj

sknippen · Feb 28, 2014

As far as i know steadyshot doesn't work with lenses with no chip.

I have a bunch of M42 lenses and i have no stabilization with them. In my case i can solve this by buying a chipped M42/A mount adapter. In this case steadyshot will work.

Michel J · Mar 1, 2014

sknippen said:
As far as i know steadyshot doesn't work with lenses with no chip.

I have a bunch of M42 lenses and i have no stabilization with them. In my case i can solve this by buying a chipped M42/A mount adapter. In this case steadyshot will work.

It was right early and for KM cameras, but I don't know now! Anyway, it's easy to check this point by the O.P. If he can see from the Exif, which aperture was used (F/?) means the IBIS is still working (if not turning "OFF") . Only posting a shot here should confirm this to us.

--
Cordialement,
Michel J
« Shoot RAW+ ...think JPEG »

nandbytes · Mar 1, 2014

Michel J said:
sknippen said:

As far as i know steadyshot doesn't work with lenses with no chip.

I have a bunch of M42 lenses and i have no stabilization with them. In my case i can solve this by buying a chipped M42/A mount adapter. In this case steadyshot will work.

Click to expand...

It was right early and for KM cameras, but I don't know now! Anyway, it's easy to check this point by the O.P. If he can see from the Exif, which aperture was used (F/?) means the IBIS is still working (if not turning "OFF") . Only posting a shot here should confirm this to us.

Michel J · Mar 1, 2014

kartikjayaraman said:
Ari Aikomus said:

Hi,

How Sony's image stabilization (steady shot) works with fully manual lenses without any electronics?

For example I have samyang 8mm fisheye, should I turn the stabilizer completely off with that (fully manual) wide angle lens?

I remember that I have read that the Sony stabilizer operates at 50mm value (as default), when manual lens mounted...

regards,

Ari

--
- Ari Aikomus -
'Why should I feel lonely ? is not our planet in the Milky way?'

Click to expand...

I think IBIS (body stabilization) has nothing to do with lenses (OSS is for lenses like Sigma). As long as you are shooting 1/f or faster shutter speed, IS of any kind most likely won't come into play with any lens. Sony recommends turning IBIS (SteadyShot) off when using a tripod. Other than that there are no lens specific IBIS instructions to be followed, IMO.

For an 8mm lens, your minimum hand held shutter speed will be faster of 1/8 OR 1/80 (which is what most humans can hand hold without shake). As long as you are above those speeds, IS is irrelevant.

I hope my understanding is correct, would like to hear from other users as well.

--

If you speak about "Security shutter speed" is usually considered to be 1/focal length (for photographers with skills and/or short focal length, if not it should be 1,5x the focal length). So for a 8mm lens it should be 1/8 sec (not 1/80, what is for a 50 or a 80mm imho). But for a 200mm I will use 1/300th sec. without IBIS if I'm not so stable.

--
Cordialement,
Michel J
« Shoot RAW+ ...think JPEG »

Michel J · Mar 1, 2014

nandbytes said:
Michel J said:

sknippen said:

As far as i know steadyshot doesn't work with lenses with no chip.

I have a bunch of M42 lenses and i have no stabilization with them. In my case i can solve this by buying a chipped M42/A mount adapter. In this case steadyshot will work.

Click to expand...

It was right early and for KM cameras, but I don't know now! Anyway, it's easy to check this point by the O.P. If he can see from the Exif, which aperture was used (F/?) means the IBIS is still working (if not turning "OFF") . Only posting a shot here should confirm this to us.

Click to expand...

nandbytes · Mar 1, 2014

Michel J said:
nandbytes said:

Michel J said:

sknippen said:

As far as i know steadyshot doesn't work with lenses with no chip.

I have a bunch of M42 lenses and i have no stabilization with them. In my case i can solve this by buying a chipped M42/A mount adapter. In this case steadyshot will work.

Click to expand...

It was right early and for KM cameras, but I don't know now! Anyway, it's easy to check this point by the O.P. If he can see from the Exif, which aperture was used (F/?) means the IBIS is still working (if not turning "OFF") . Only posting a shot here should confirm this to us.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

IanML · Mar 1, 2014

My understanding is that it does not need the aperture, but it does need the focal length. It is frequently stated that it uses a value of 50mm if that is not available, but whether that is correct is open to doubt.

However, a photograph with an 8mm lens is not going to be susceptible to the camera-shake effects, the way a close-up or tele lens shot would be. I have not been able to see any difference with my 8mm Samyang, using about 1/60 shutter or faster, with IBIS on and off.

If it does set 50mm, it is not going to work very well at all, and probably would make things worse (as can happen with a tripod). I suggest it would best be switched off, which would save battery power and wear.

--
Ian

Michel J · Mar 1, 2014

IanML said:
My understanding is that it does not need the aperture, but it does need the focal length.

You right! Thanks for correcting me. I wrote too fast.

IanML said:
It is frequently stated that it uses a value of 50mm if that is not available, but whether that is correct is open to doubt.

However, a photograph with an 8mm lens is not going to be susceptible to the camera-shake effects, the way a close-up or tele lens shot would be. I have not been able to see any difference with my 8mm Samyang, using about 1/60 shutter or faster, with IBIS on and off.

If it does set 50mm, it is not going to work very well at all, and probably would make things worse (as can happen with a tripod). I suggest it would best be switched off, which would save battery power and wear.

--
Ian

Sure.

Anyway, when the aim is to get HQ images only, I use wire remote and tripod (and previously MLU)! So it's very rare if I use the IBIS now, with the today's sensors and their very demanding resolution power, nothing is superfluous!

--
Cordialement,
Michel J
« Shoot RAW+ ...think JPEG »

jeffcpix · Mar 1, 2014

I use a 500mm f8 Manual Focus Rokkor (adapted to A mount -- and yes, it does focus to infinity) on an a900. EXIF reads it as 50mm -- which doesn't add much stability. I have tried to find a 'chip' which will inform the camera -- with no success. I thought that Sony might have chips for the AF version as 'parts' -- no luck there. Maybe someday I'll find a broken AF version and cannibalize the mount. Until then, it's "1/800th and be there".

ps: I've tried contacting James Lao but get no response

Loading…

www.eadpt.com

and Leitax is under the impression that the 500MF can't be converted with infinity focus

Leica lens for Sony cameras

Leitax makes reversible Leica and Contax lenses conversion to Pentax SLR and DSLR mount

leitax.com

Allan Olesen · Mar 1, 2014

kartikjayaraman said:
I think IBIS (body stabilization) has nothing to do with lenses

OK. I rotate the camera 1 degreee about the vertical axis.

How many mm should I move the sensor to compensate for the rotation?

You can't answer that question without knowing the focal length of the lens.

So if you want IBIS to operate properly, the camera needs to know the focal length of the lens. Since there is no way of telling the camera manually (like on Pentax), the information will have to come from the lens.

If it is correct that the camera defaults to a value of 50 mm, using the IBIS with an 8 mm lens will cause so much overcompensation that the compensation causes more blur than the original shake did. Everytime you rotate the camera 1 degree, the sensor will be moved to compensate for a rotation of 6 degrees. So instead of 1 degreee of blur from the shake, you end up with 5 degrees of blur from shake+IBIS.

Ari Aikomus · Mar 1, 2014

jeffcpix said:
I use a 500mm f8 Manual Focus Rokkor (adapted to A mount -- and yes, it does focus to infinity) on an a900. EXIF reads it as 50mm -- which doesn't add much stability. I have tried to find a 'chip' which will inform the camera -- with no success.

programmable CHIPS for Sony

indeed exist.

jeffcpix said:
I thought that Sony might have chips for the AF version as 'parts' -- no luck there. Maybe someday I'll find a broken AF version and cannibalize the mount. Until then, it's "1/800th and be there".

ps: I've tried contacting James Lao but get no response

http://www.eadpt.com/eadpen.htm

and Leitax is under the impression that the 500MF can't be converted with infinity focus

http://leitax.com/Leica-lens-for-Sony-cameras.html

Ari Aikomus · Mar 1, 2014

IanML said:
My understanding is that it does not need the aperture, but it does need the focal length.

Yes, I agree. focal lenght data needed for a well-functioning stabilization.

IanML said:
It is frequently stated that it uses a value of 50mm if that is not available,

I do remember this from my Konica-Minolta 5D time...

IanML said:
but whether that is correct is open to doubt.

Indeed. maybe someone know this (?), or then maybe just have to try this out carefully.

IanML said:
However, a photograph with an 8mm lens is not going to be susceptible to the camera-shake effects,

Yep, but I am afraid that the image stabilization system (which works for 50mm focal lenght) messes up 8mm IQ performance (!)

IanML said:
the way a close-up or tele lens shot would be. I have not been able to see any difference with my 8mm Samyang, using about 1/60 shutter or faster, with IBIS on and off.

If it does set 50mm, it is not going to work very well at all, and probably would make things worse (as can happen with a tripod). I suggest it would best be switched off, which would save battery power and wear.

Allan Olesen · Mar 1, 2014

Ari Aikomus said:
Yep, but I am afraid that the image stabilization system (which works for 50mm focal lenght) messes up 8mm IQ performance (!)

Correct. As I wrote earlier, if the camera thinks that your 8 mm is a 50 mm, it will (negatively) amplify the shake 5 times instead of cancelling it.

moimoi · Mar 1, 2014

The Steady Shot does not work with lenses not equipped with chips. I have both the Rokinon 35 and 85 mm, and no steady shots.

With the chips, it will work though. I plan to get them soon.

Cheers,

moimoi

Ari Aikomus · Mar 1, 2014

Allan Olesen said:
Ari Aikomus said:

Yep, but I am afraid that the image stabilization system (which works for 50mm focal lenght) messes up 8mm IQ performance (!)

Click to expand...

Correct. As I wrote earlier, if the camera thinks that your 8 mm is a 50 mm, it will (negatively) amplify the shake 5 times instead of cancelling it.

Yes, and this is my fear when I use for example Samyang 8mm fisheye with Sony A65...

Stflbn · Mar 1, 2014

The small 'vibration monitor' will still show up in the Viewfinder and such with lenses with no Chips, but IBIS does 'NOT' function because the camera gets no info from the lens.

I always chip my Rokinon 85, Tair 11a 135, lenses, but I don't bother with 35mm or smaller manual lenses. I always use the James Lao custom ordered chips and install them onto the lenses using Liquid Nails adhesive. Always works great with a little planning for the correct placement.

Ari Aikomus · Mar 1, 2014

moimoi said:
The Steady Shot does not work with lenses not equipped with chips. I have both the Rokinon 35 and 85 mm, and no steady shots.

With the chips, it will work though. I plan to get them soon.

But, how can you be sure that IBIS does not work with lenses without chip?

There is the suspicion that it working at 50mm value "as default" with manual lenses...

Ari

moimoi said:
Cheers,

moimoi

Ari Aikomus · Mar 1, 2014

Stflbn said:
The small 'vibration monitor' will still show up in the Viewfinder and such with lenses with no Chips, but IBIS does 'NOT' function because the camera gets no info from the lens.

it can still work

As at 50mm "default" setting...

Stflbn said:
I always chip my Rokinon 85, Tair 11a 135, lenses, but I don't bother with 35mm or smaller manual lenses. I always use the James Lao custom ordered chips and install them onto the lenses using Liquid Nails adhesive. Always works great with a little planning for the correct placement.

sony IBIS with manual lenses (lens without the chip)?

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