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My views on the D4s, somewhat dissappointing

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mainframedc

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My views on the D4s

I like THE D4 and D4s but, D4S IS VERY DISAPPOINTING; 30% exspeed processor performance increase is a poor and inadequate; better processors are available. No USB3 is also unacceptable. 16 megapixel should be 28MP or no lower than 24MP.

The greatest feature they added to the D4s is 1000 gigabit LAN; long overdue! The higher ISO range useless because the noise issues have not yet been conquered in consumer cmos sensors; we are about 3 years away.

I will will keep my eleven D4 and d800E cameras until the D5 or D7 is here with really advanced features.

I do commend Nikon for the faster auto focus, improved video resolution and D4s remains the Nikon best Nikon camera for sports/high-action shooters. Nikon video is still behind that of Sony and Panasonic but, I believe that is by Nikon's choice.

For my serious video work, I still shot with Sony f-series XDCAM cameras.

However, if Nikon's sports camera can not reach 15 frames per second and 3 stops of improved noise reduction (especially luminous noise reduction), then I will not replace my 11 D4 cameras.

After loving the UsB3 performance of the 800e cameras, I will not buy any DSLR camera with usb 2 any more!
 
Eleven D4 and D800? wow, you must run one heck of a business... I thought from the title this post would be more mindless palaver from morons, but hey, if you've got that much invested in Nikon wares, you definitely have something to add to the discussion.

personally, I'm in awe of the Df's sensor in a way i wouldn't have expected, so if they've managed to improve the performance in the D4s, that's saying something to me -- but i won't ever buy one.

i'm with you on the USB 3.0, however. once you've used it, you never want to go back!

by the way, gigabit ethernet doesn't have 1000 in front of it. what would that be? terabit eithernet? not sure that's coming even in 3 years (but i could be totally wrong).
 
mainframedc said:
My views on the D4s

I like THE D4 and D4s but, D4S IS VERY DISAPPOINTING; 30% exspeed processor performance increase is a poor and inadequate; better processors are available. No USB3 is also unacceptable. 16 megapixel should be 28MP or no lower than 24MP.

The greatest feature they added to the D4s is 1000 gigabit LAN; long overdue! The higher ISO range useless because the noise issues have not yet been conquered in consumer cmos sensors; we are about 3 years away.

I will will keep my eleven D4 and d800E cameras until the D5 or D7 is here with really advanced features.

I do commend Nikon for the faster auto focus, improved video resolution and D4s remains the Nikon best Nikon camera for sports/high-action shooters. Nikon video is still behind that of Sony and Panasonic but, I believe that is by Nikon's choice.

For my serious video work, I still shot with Sony f-series XDCAM cameras.

However, if Nikon's sports camera can not reach 15 frames per second and 3 stops of improved noise reduction (especially luminous noise reduction), then I will not replace my 11 D4 cameras.

After loving the UsB3 performance of the 800e cameras, I will not buy any DSLR camera with usb 2 any more!
Click to expand...
Always nice to see such in-depth (and yet so inept) analysis of the new Nikon Pro camera from a poster with 3 previous posts about Coolpix, Fujifilm X100 and Panasonic compacts ... :-)
 
Once upon a time an awful lot of iconic sports images were made by photographers who understood the sport, timing of action, were limited by 2fps drives and had to focus themselves.

But for you, there's a better solution -- 4k video. The Panasonic GH4 will allow you to shoot 4k video of a play, pull an 8mp still and be happy.
 
+1
 
11 of 'em huh? Might be a good idea to post something to keep the folks with suspicious natures at bay :) I'm just sayin' .

--
http://www.nightstreets.com
-
"Sick cultures show a complex of symptoms such as you have named...but a dying culture invariable exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners is more significant than a riot."
This symptom is especially serious in that an individual displaying it never thinks of it as a sign of ill health but as proof of his/her strength. ...Friday, it is too late to save this culture--this worldwide culture... Therefore we must now prepare the monasteries for the coming Dark Age. Electronic records are too fragile..."
--Robert A. Heinlein in "Friday"
 
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Grevture said:
mainframedc said:
My views on the D4s

I like THE D4 and D4s but, D4S IS VERY DISAPPOINTING; 30% exspeed processor performance increase ifrs a poor and inadequate; better processors are available. No USB3 is also unacceptable. 16 megapixel should be 28MP or no lower than 24MP.

The greatest feature they added to the D4s is 1000 gigabit LAN; long overdue! The higher ISO range useless because the noise issues have not yet been conquered in consumer cmos sensors; we are about 3 years away.

I will will keep my eleven D4 and d800E cameras until the D5 or D7 is here with really advanced features.

I do commend Nikon for the faster auto focus, improved video resolution and D4s remains the Nikon best Nikon camera for sports/high-action shooters. Nikon video is still behind that of Sony and Panasonic but, I believe that is by Nikon's choice.

For my serious video work, I still shot with Sony f-series XDCAM cameras.

However, if Nikon's sports camera can not reach 15 frames per second and 3 stops of improved noise reduction (especially luminous noise reduction), then I will not replace my 11 D4 cameras.

After loving the UsB3 performance of the 800e cameras, I will not buy any DSLR camera with usb 2 any more!
Click to expand...
Always nice to see such in-depth (and yet so inept) analysis of the new Nikon Pro camera from a poster with 3 previous posts about Coolpix, Fujifilm X100 and Panasonic compacts ... :-)
Click to expand...
 
And unlike all of these type posts he won't be back to defend his absurd conclusions based solely on reading specs.. Myself I plan on buying 25 of these new cameras to replace my 15 D4, 18 D800E, 12 D800, 7 D610 cameras that I presently use.

Sony and Panasonic PLEEEASE.. I own 15 of each of those and they just don't hack it. My 45 5D Mark III cameras run circles around them in video..
 
While it's a nice standard the limitations to "industrial" use like non-locking plugs and very restrictive cable lengths make it useless for pro use.

Here's some insight on what complexity industrial cameras that use USB3 feature:

Loading…

www.ptgrey.com
 
The D4s is a perfectly good and expected evolution, just like the D3 to D3s was at the time. And for D3s users like myself, it may now be the time to bump up to the D4s as a replacement. And 16MP is ideal for a camera that is designed for what it's actually to be used for (and not for what a hobbyist might wish for.) 16MP is appreciated by users of these particular camera models; for other applications there is the D800/D800E. This is the way it should be.
 
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inasir1971 said:
bgbs said:
30% performance increase is no small potatoes.
Click to expand...
It is actually. So miniscule that I wonder whether it is a typo.

As a comparison, here's what Canon has to say about their Digic IV, V, V+:

"A DIGIC 5 processor is approximately six times faster than DIGIC 4. A DIGIC 5+ is approximately three times faster than DIGIC 5, and 17 times faster than DIGIC 4."

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/digic_processors.htmlp
Click to expand...
Which makes one wonder why Canon needed two of them in the 1D X to move just 18MP at 12 FPS. The 1D IV moved 16 MP at 10 FPS, which is 160 MP/s or 80 MP/s per processor. So, if the DIGIC 5 is six times fast it should have been able to move 480MP/s, more than enough for the 216 MP/s of the 1D X, yet they needed two, plus another for the AF.

Alternatively, this might be Canon marketing hype. They are very good at it.
 
bobn2 said:
inasir1971 said:
bgbs said:
30% performance increase is no small potatoes.
Click to expand...
It is actually. So miniscule that I wonder whether it is a typo.

As a comparison, here's what Canon has to say about their Digic IV, V, V+:

"A DIGIC 5 processor is approximately six times faster than DIGIC 4. A DIGIC 5+ is approximately three times faster than DIGIC 5, and 17 times faster than DIGIC 4."

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/digic_processors.htmlp
Click to expand...
Which makes one wonder why Canon needed two of them in the 1D X to move just 18MP at 12 FPS. The 1D IV moved 16 MP at 10 FPS, which is 160 MP/s or 80 MP/s per processor. So, if the DIGIC 5 is six times fast it should have been able to move 480MP/s, more than enough for the 216 MP/s of the 1D X, yet they needed two, plus another for the AF.
Click to expand...
While moving data off the sensor is a major undertaking for the cameras processor(s), they do after all deal with a lot of other stuff too - like AF. Some of the comments I have heard from Canon about the dual processor design of 1D X have indicated it is a lot about AF (and the AF in 1D X is fast). And I have heard more or less the same message from Nikon. One comment was that for each extra frame/second you add to the framerate, you will roughly need to double the amount of processing used for AF. When shooting at 11 fps, a lot of seemingly small things start to add up pretty quickly.

A couple of weeks ago when Nikon released the new batch of Coolpixes, we had a lengthy discussion about what increased processing power mean in general terms. As for those Coolpixes, one of the most apparent updates in them were things like less shutter lag, faster framerate, much faster and less hesitant AF while having a lot less delays in displaying images on the screen and so on. In short, they are a lot faster then their predecessors, and the product specialist claimed this was largely due to a rather dramatic increase in processing capacity.
bobn2 said:
Alternatively, this might be Canon marketing hype. They are very good at it.
Click to expand...
Aren't they all :-)
 
Fogsville said:
The D4s is a perfectly good and expected evolution, just like the D3 to D3s was at the time. And for D3s users like myself, it may now be the time to bump up to the D4s as a replacement. And 16MP is ideal for a camera that is designed for what it's actually to be used for (and not for what a hobbyist might wish for.) 16MP is appreciated by users of these particular camera models; for other applications there is the D800/D800E. This is the way it should be.
Click to expand...
Bingo!

Honestly a lot of the initial comments on the D4s left me a with a mix of near laughter and despair. So few commenters seem to stop for one moment and actually think a moment about for whom and what this camera is built. Its main feature is to be fast and reliable to be used in a fast and predictable workflow.

A lot of the naive "it should have been at least 24 MP" cries missed that Nikon, probably on the urging from a large portion of the target group for this camera, actually in a sense did exactly the opposite - they instead introduced a Canon-style s-RAW option. Why - because the users at time need a very fast workflow, and nothing, absolutely nothing is to get in the way of that.
 
John said:
And unlike all of these type posts he won't be back to defend his absurd conclusions based solely on reading specs.. Myself I plan on buying 25 of these new cameras to replace my 15 D4, 18 D800E, 12 D800, 7 D610 cameras that I presently use.

Sony and Panasonic PLEEEASE.. I own 15 of each of those and they just don't hack it. My 45 5D Mark III cameras run circles around them in video..
Click to expand...
Pah!

I have 100 Hasselblad Lunars with twice as many Stellars on order and, to quote Monty Python, I fart in your general direction!
 
Fogsville said:
The D4s is a perfectly good and expected evolution, just like the D3 to D3s was at the time. And for D3s users like myself, it may now be the time to bump up to the D4s as a replacement. And 16MP is ideal for a camera that is designed for what it's actually to be used for (and not for what a hobbyist might wish for.) 16MP is appreciated by users of these particular camera models; for other applications there is the D800/D800E. This is the way it should be.
Click to expand...
I am leaving it until the D5. I doubt I will wear out my D3s or my D3x in the interim 12-18 months.
 
Grevture said:
bobn2 said:
inasir1971 said:
bgbs said:
30% performance increase is no small potatoes.
Click to expand...
It is actually. So miniscule that I wonder whether it is a typo.

As a comparison, here's what Canon has to say about their Digic IV, V, V+:

"A DIGIC 5 processor is approximately six times faster than DIGIC 4. A DIGIC 5+ is approximately three times faster than DIGIC 5, and 17 times faster than DIGIC 4."

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/digic_processors.htmlp
Click to expand...
Which makes one wonder why Canon needed two of them in the 1D X to move just 18MP at 12 FPS. The 1D IV moved 16 MP at 10 FPS, which is 160 MP/s or 80 MP/s per processor. So, if the DIGIC 5 is six times fast it should have been able to move 480MP/s, more than enough for the 216 MP/s of the 1D X, yet they needed two, plus another for the AF.
Click to expand...
While moving data off the sensor is a major undertaking for the cameras processor(s), they do after all deal with a lot of other stuff too - like AF. Some of the comments I have heard from Canon about the dual processor design of 1D X have indicated it is a lot about AF (and the AF in 1D X is fast). And I have heard more or less the same message from Nikon. One comment was that for each extra frame/second you add to the framerate, you will roughly need to double the amount of processing used for AF. When shooting at 11 fps, a lot of seemingly small things start to add up pretty quickly.
Click to expand...
The question is, what is it they actually talk about. These are complex chips. In general they have many 'processors' integrated. Maybe a one, two or four core general purpose processor (seems nowadays to generally be an ARM, except for the Sonys, where it's a power PC, an IO processor, often also an arm, and a string of special purpose processors and pipelines for graphics and image processing. So, imagine the DIGIC went from a single core 600MHz to a four core 1200MHz, that's 8 times the power, isn't it? Well, only if the critical tasks can be evenly shared between the cores, and the memory bandwidth is enough to feed all the cores running full tilt. Then again, if the operation that dictates the speed is the graphics pipeline, those four cores won't help at all. And even it the four cores would have been faster than the pipeline, unless the programmers have moved that task to the pipeline, it won't be faster. It looks to me as if the 1D X is memory bandwidth limited, because it runs 14FPS in JPEG, which requires all the same processing, the difference is how much data there is to get off chip.
Grevture said:
A couple of weeks ago when Nikon released the new batch of Coolpixes, we had a lengthy discussion about what increased processing power mean in general terms. As for those Coolpixes, one of the most apparent updates in them were things like less shutter lag, faster framerate, much faster and less hesitant AF while having a lot less delays in displaying images on the screen and so on. In short, they are a lot faster then their predecessors, and the product specialist claimed this was largely due to a rather dramatic increase in processing capacity.
Click to expand...
A simple clock speed hike quite reliably makes things faster, parallelism, whether through multiple cores, multiple processors or pipelining, requires ingenuity to utilise.
Grevture said:
Grevture said:
Alternatively, this might be Canon marketing hype. They are very good at it.
Click to expand...
Aren't they all :-)
Click to expand...
I find Nikon to be pretty poor at it. Probably a good thing.
 
mainframedc said:
I will will keep my eleven D4 and d800E cameras until the D5 or D7 is here with really advanced features.
Click to expand...
You own 11 D4 and D800E cameras?

I've got to ask for you to please post a photo of your Nikon horde. This would be an incredible sight to see.

.
 
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