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Marketing Dance Tour Pictures

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Wilbur T

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I am photographing 6 dance competitions over the next 8 weeks at various locations in Eastern US. I did my first one 2 weeks ago and posted over 1500 images using my zenfolio website. Pictures are just fine, pro gear and all that. I expected online orders of at least a few thousand dollars. Prices for high rez downloads and prints are very fair and competitively priced. Audience was packed and there were hundreds of dancers entered. Everyone had ordering info for my site etc. So whats my problem? Total orders so far 61.00. Damn. This is my first venture outside of my studio for an event like this sold over the web. I understand that people now record their life events in real time with mobile devices (everyone in the audience was packing) but is this the way it is? Is there a market for this kind of selling? 12 hours of continuous backbreaking shooting pretty much for nothing. What the ___ am I missing?
 
I have no experience in this part of the industry so I'm speaking more as a consumer with children that has general industry knowledge.
  • People forget and misplace information all the time. Did you get a registration list with e-mail addresses? Did you consider sending them a link to your site to remind them? Did you make arrangements with the event organizer to include a link to your site on their event site?
  • Your pricing may not be as attractive as you believe. What metrics did you use. These people compete regularly so pictures either have to be very low priced or exceptional to justify the purchase.
  • People have nice cameras these days so many take their own photos and think they are good enough for their needs.
Next event talk to people, find out what would motivate them to make a purchase, your customers will tell you what they like and don't like.
 
Joe Pa said:
  • Your pricing may not be as attractive as you believe. What metrics did you use. These people compete regularly so pictures either have to be very low priced or exceptional to justify the purchase.
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Here's a large part of your answer. Many of these competitions are just one of many throughout the year. As a youth I played AAU baseball at a highly competitive level. We traveled throughout the US playing and at nearly every even there was a photographer or team of photographers floating around taking photos. However, it was just a tournament, nothing special, so why spend money on photos, especially photos that aren't immediate gratification? The few times that we did purchase photos were always for two reasons: 1) the photo was truly exceptional AND 2) we received the print immediately, on site. View now and receive later? Never!

The other aspect is that many parents just don't care about action shots. Can't see little Susie's face big and smiling? No thanks. To have a better chance of selling anything, worry less about any action that may be occurring and focus on faces!
 
Wilbur T said:
This is my first venture outside of my studio for an event like this sold over the web. I understand that people now record their life events in real time with mobile devices (everyone in the audience was packing) but is this the way it is? Is there a market for this kind of selling? 12 hours of continuous backbreaking shooting pretty much for nothing. What the ___ am I missing?
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I think you might have missed what you stated in the above paragraph. People just seem to be happy with cell phone and P&S camera images. Or they have a DSLR with a Program setting and they shoot enough pics to get a few good ones, or they do not know what good is so they are happy with worse.

That could be the nature of the market you are in when it comes to dance competitions. Maybe it is not. If it is not then there a functional reasons you are not reaching revenue goals. Among the multiple possibilities for low volume of orders are these:

1. Inadequate promotion – just giving people ordering information is not adequate marketing.

Were the great sample images in the ordering material?

Were there sample images set up near the contestants entrances to the event?

Have you followed up with emails to the contestants parents?

2. Ease or lack thereof in locating photos at Zenfolio.

Do viewers have to browse through 1500 photos to find (on not find) one of their child?

Are the photos sorted by the competition’s categories whether it be ages, types of dance, etc?

Can the images be searched by competitor’s name?

3. Price point – what you think of as fair and competitive might not be.

Have you researched the price points for prints at competitors’ sites?

Is that research consistent with the demographics, that is, are you using major metropolitan prices for events in places like Brownsville, PA?

Do the prices give a good reason to buy, that is, are they low enough to overcome resistance because the contestants are photographed many times every year?

Perhaps this first experience is not indicative of the results you will get in future efforts. There are aberrations in such things. I once owned as an investor a ⅓ interest in a school photography business. I learned one thing well. When you are dealing with volume shooting the price and ease of ordering are critical.

--

Richard Weisgrau
www.drawnwithlight.com
www.show-my-house.com
Author of:
The Real Business of Photography
The Photographers Guide to Negotiating
Licensing Photography
Selling Your Photography
 
I'm a runner. I enter many races throughout the year. Most of those races have a photographer at the finish line for 5k - 10k races and and multiple places for half/full marathons.

Within a couple days after the race I get an email from the photographer with a link to my photos. They average is 15 bucks for a high res download. I rarely purchase a photo unless it's a big race like my first half marathon.

Usually every few months after the race I get another email linking to my photos and after a year I get a final email telling me it's my last chance to order.

The races that don't link to my photo I rarely take the time to look through all the photos looking for me or my family members who also run.

The point being I would never seek out the photos myself after a race unless it was a milestone for me. I may purchase if it is made extremely easy to see and order.

As others have said you need to market to the parents more than just passing out your info at the event and then you have to make it easy to find their kid and then it needs to be reasonably priced and easy to purchase.

As a parent I would not buy every photo from every event. In my opinion these dance studios are a racket and milk the parents for every penny as it is.
 
Wilbur T said:
I am photographing 6 dance competitions over the next 8 weeks at various locations in Eastern US. I did my first one 2 weeks ago and posted over 1500 images using my zenfolio website. Pictures are just fine, pro gear and all that. I expected online orders of at least a few thousand dollars. Prices for high rez downloads and prints are very fair and competitively priced. Audience was packed and there were hundreds of dancers entered. Everyone had ordering info for my site etc. So whats my problem? Total orders so far 61.00. Damn. This is my first venture outside of my studio for an event like this sold over the web. I understand that people now record their life events in real time with mobile devices (everyone in the audience was packing) but is this the way it is? Is there a market for this kind of selling? 12 hours of continuous backbreaking shooting pretty much for nothing. What the ___ am I missing?
Click to expand...
 
Two of my children are very involved in this activity, and attend 6-8 competitions a year. The #1 thing you absolutely need to offer is on-site ordering and printing. The parents at these events are there all day, and often all weekend. There is a lot of down-time for looking at photos and ordering. They want (and will pay for) that immediate gratification.

You simply cannot expect me to carve-out 30 minutes of my time 2 weeks later to look at photos. 2 weeks later, I am already packing for my next event, and who knows, will find better prints there.

I'd hazard to guess we are talking a huge investment in H/W & S/W to do this right, not to mention hiring an assistant to upload the images and take orders, and print the photos.

A slightly cheaper alternative would be a server and several iPads where parents can see the photos and order a CD of all the images.

As someone in this Pro forum once said, Photography is an expensive undertaking. Either pay the price, or find a cheaper hobby.

p.s. For those not acquainted with competitive dance, they almost always prohibit audience members from photographing the dances. This at least gives the OP exclusive access to the action.
 
dad_of_four said:
p.s. For those not acquainted with competitive dance, they almost always prohibit audience members from photographing the dances. This at least gives the OP exclusive access to the action.
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That's great for OP, my son is a wrestler and they allow anyone at the tournament to take pictures, even though they have "pro's" on-site that provide the service.

I wonder how strictly they enforce the rule since it's hard to know if someone is texting or taking a picture with their cell phone.
 
Online sales tanked about 3 years ago - I want from thousands to hundreds a year and it's not come back.

The only way to make a buck is to sell and print and deliver on site the day of the event. NOTHING goes online.

Immediate gratification and impulse purchases is what will cause them to buy - that and the pics are available Today Only!

There is a whole industry built on shoot/print/sell now. The bigger (more rare) the event the better the sales - think baseball game vs playoffs vs state championship. There are 15-20 games a year, no big deal. Playoffs happen once, but every year. Getting into the state championship is once in a lifetime perhaps.

So you have to pick the right events.

I've know a few photogs to sell AT THE GAME a cd for $25 - all the images of that kid, min 3 images. they pay at the game - you get the impulse buy and the 'today only' thing but don't have to print onsite which requires some capital investment and extra labor.
 
Joe Pa said:
dad_of_four said:
p.s. For those not acquainted with competitive dance, they almost always prohibit audience members from photographing the dances. This at least gives the OP exclusive access to the action.
Click to expand...
That's great for OP, my son is a wrestler and they allow anyone at the tournament to take pictures, even though they have "pro's" on-site that provide the service.

I wonder how strictly they enforce the rule since it's hard to know if someone is texting or taking a picture with their cell phone.
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The OP is not trying to compete with a cell-phone camera, he is trying to compete with the Dance Mom and her Digital Rebel and 70-300 lens. She spent $1000, and has to justify that money to her husband ;)

And yes, they try and strictly enforce this rule. Sometime the Photographer is a sister company to the Competition, sometimes they are getting a percentage of the sales.
 
Well, I use to do this very thing for one season with a past associate of mine. This was about 5 years ago. We were the photographers for a dance competition that toured 25 cities all over the US.

Your problem? Posting online. I don't know how many times I have told people on here that posting shots like this online will net very very little orders/money. You HAVE TO sell at the competition.

If it is set up like ours was, the teach classes Fri, Sat morning and afternoon, have the competition Saturday night and then more classes Sunday morning.

We would photograph and video tape every routine. Take about 80 or so images of each one. Then Sunday morning we had about 10 computer stations set up so moms and dancers could view through the images, pick their favorites and buy photos that we would dye sub print out right then and there. Or sell them a copy of the video. The average net was about $4,000. Of course we had travel, food, printing material and other misc. expenses but at least we made a profit that was pretty good. Enough to pay 3 photographers (and their expenses) and still make a profit for the owner.

One of the associates told me they posted on line once just to see how they would do. Got $50 worth of orders. DO NOT post online. YOU WILL FAIL!
 
photolando said:
One of the associates told me they posted on line once just to see how they would do. Got $50 worth of orders. DO NOT post online. YOU WILL FAIL!
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+1

At one of the competitions (Starpower), as part of the Vendor's workstation, is a huge sign that says, "Photos will not be available online" It forces the Mom's to fish or cut bait. And I can tell you from first-hand experience, these Mom's definitelty look & order.
 
Yep. The only way to do this is to have about 8-10 "photo stations". That means 8-10 small computers like lap tops or small desk units with screens all wired into one main server that holds all the files. If you don't have that kind of set up forget it. There is no way all the parents and dancers can view the images. One or two won't cut it. We always had people waiting. But with 10 screens, the wait was never real long.

You can however skip the dye sub print and sell the file. We use to sell a 5x7 for about $10. These days they want files for their phones and FB and their own printing. But you have to sell it there wither during, right after or the next day (if there is one). That's the reality of it.
 
photolando said:
Yep. The only way to do this is to have about 8-10 "photo stations". That means 8-10 small computers like lap tops or small desk units with screens all wired into one main server that holds all the files.
Click to expand...
The last 2 years, I have seen Photographers with an Apple server and 8-10 iPads. The files are uploaded to the server, and then either pushed out to the iPads, or the iPad pulls the file from the server for each view.

Ordering is done on a simple order sheet with pencil & paper. The Mom writes down the image number, and the photos are printed and/or burned.
 
I shoot dance schools and don't make a cent from the concerts and competitions, but the end of year studio shoots I sell 800 images from 2 full days shooting . the parents including myself prefer the formal photos.

cheers don
 
What? You didn't notice all the cellphone shooters there? I'm afraid you've come up against the bain of commercial photography in the early 21st Century, everyone is a photographer and so your work is worth nothing. Get used to it. Low cost digital ruined the market.
 
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All the marathon, Xterra, mud run and triathlon events I shoot for would prove you to be entirely wrong and misinformed. All of them put images online for sale AFTER the event. They all do quite well.
 
M Charles Joseph said:
What? You didn't notice all the cellphone shooters there? I'm afraid you've come up against the bain of commercial photography in the early 21st Century, everyone is a photographer and so your work is worth nothing. Get used to it. Low cost digital ruined the market.
Click to expand...
Not really. That cell phone camera cannot catch the action any where near as good as a dslr with a lens like a 70-200 2.8. That's why this is still a viable business. Cell phones are just too slow when it comes to action.

I will mention though, the images that were the best sellers when I did this was the group shot of all the dancers on a backdrop. That and the name of studio, dance routine and location was added for a few extra $.
 
Who's buying?
Parents or participants?

The OP is shooting dance, sounds like the parents are the customers.

You are shooting motorsports so I would guess the customers are the participants themselves.

Different customers and buying for different reasons.

Mom can take a pic of little janey dancing, tommy trucker can't get a shot of himself crossing the finish line.

If janey is like my kids they're into 3 things this year and 3 different ones next year. A few shots for the scrapbook (or fb) is fine.

if tommy is like the guys I know that race motorcycles its very different - very ego, very 'justify this to the wife and friends' sorta thing, and some have sponsors that want pics.
 
In response to my post in this thread you claim to have the answer to the OP's problem.

You've overcome the cell phone shooters.

So please, for the benefit of all, share your process.
 
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