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Here's Why Microsoft 'Forced' Windows 8 On People

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dwalby said:
Jim Cockfield said:
dwalby said:
If I could gradually replace my windows s/w like Sony Vegas Movie Studio and a few others, with a paid linux version that worked exactly the same as the windows version, then I'd seriously consider going linux on the next upgrade. I don't expect that option to really show up any time soon, but if enough people start jumping ship on MSFT it may eventually happen.
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What have you tried? Kdenlive and OpenShot are popular for easy to use editors.
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I've got OpenShot installed on a USB Ubuntu. Seems like a pretty nice editor for what it is, but it seems like a very basic editor. Short on features, but what's there is nicely done.

Tried Kdenlive and Pitivi about a year or two ago, kept crashing on me as I tried various operations. I think Kdenlive had some more advanced features, but they didn't work for me at the time without crashing.
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The latest version of Kdenlive is 0.9.6 now (released in April 2013). If you were not using that one, you may want to give it another try. Not a lot of work on it has taken place in a while. But, it seems to be very popular with some of the people doing youtube videos, etc. It also has a default crash recovery mode built in (so it automatically backs up your work and if it does crash, lets you recover so you can start from where you left off). That's one of it's settings preferences (and should default to using crash recovery).

You may also want to give Flowblade a try. It looks like it's been under far more active development, and tends to take the best features from Kdelive, Openshot and Avidemux and incorporate them into a single app from what I've seen others say about it. You'll want to have MLT 0.8.8 and FreiOr 1.4 installed to get all of the latest features and video effects plugins for it from what I can see of the release notes for the newer versions. You'll find the Flowblade project site here (and you can get a .deb file for your Ubuntu install).

http://code.google.com/p/flowblade/

Of course, it's not free if you want more features and output formats (the free version is limited to 720p MP4 files from what I understand). But, Lightworks is available for Linux now, too:

http://www.lwks.com/

The Pro version will run you $7.99/month (or $79.99 per year discounted for buying a year up front), or you can buy it outright for $279.99 (which includes all future updates within the 11.5 release cycle).

From what I understand, it can have a bit of a learning curve. If you want to test drive it, I'd probably go through the basic tutorials available here:

http://www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107&Itemid=216

IOW, look under the Basic Section on the left side of the page, and start with the tutorial on "New Project", then move to the next one on "Importing", etc.

That page defaults to showing you videos about new features, versus anything to do with using it. So, look at the video links on the left side of that page and you'll see the section I'm referring to. I went through all of the Tutorials in that section after it was released, and it doesn't look like it would be too hard to use. You'll find *many* more advanced tutorials online about it, too.

--
JimC
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Cigarguy said:
Austinian said:
I bought a cheap Win 8 laptop from Best Buy last year. It works just fine...after I installed a good "Start Menu" program. ;-) Underneath the worthless-to-me Metro stuff lurks a slightly improved Windows 7.

The sad thing is, I suspect the less aware the consumer is of these "Start Menu" programs, the more likely they are to need them. I spread info where I can, but if MS hadn't goofed so badly we wouldn't need them. Dumb.
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An that is my contention. I bought and paid for Win 8 from MS. It should not be up to a third party vendor, who do not make a dime from the Win 8 that I bought, to make Win 8 work as I want. It's like buying a camera from brand X and relying on software from another vendor to make it work properly. I would never tolerate it in my camera, smartphone or tablet.
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"Should not" is one thing. The current reality is another. The worst of Win 8.x's problems can be fixed easily. Not everyone needs to or can afford to buy a business-class PC with Win 7; if they can get an adequate Win 8 machine for less, why not?

And what is wrong if someone is willing to give their software away for free? If it wasn't for that, we wouldn't have any of the wonderful free software we do.

No Linux! No open-source GPL software at all! That would be terrible. Count me out of that notion.

Even many commercial software vendors give away free versions of their products for individual use.

If you insist on paying, you can get Start8 from Stardock for $4.99 and have a clear conscience. I've heard it's excellent.
 
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iOS and Android tablets are still only a semi-disruption at the moment. The disruption over a PC is the content side. When have we ever been able to have this much content available on the web, more more, pls?!? A tablet is a great device for this content consumption, small, light, 10hr battery, etc. Better to watch that cat video sitting anywhere there is WiFi instead of stuck wherever your PC sits. Tablets are great to view content and do small communication stuff - FB, email, etc... Tablet creation work still is a bit painful.

What MS "gets" is for almost all people there is still a creation side mostly for job related work and personal editing work like, er, -> pictures (us !?!), etc. Today most still have a 2nd machine for creating content, a laptop/desktop.

I get MS also owns Office that buys them runway (lock-in). Yes I get there is Open Office, etc. Get real, the business world runs on MS Office, period. Office is one of two MS family jewels with Windoz.

There is now a device that can do BOTH tasks...

I got a Surface Pro 8.1 (Original device) from work to test last Monday. I is v-cool, click into docking station with a full keyboard, mouse, big monitor, fire up Office and create away. Just like my existing laptop, just faster since there is no disk. The damn thing has a Core i5, it is faster than my personal Pentium D desktop !?! I am running Solaris 10 & CentOS in VMWare Workstation on this "tablet".

To go roam, here is a magnetic KB cover to be able to do light content creation, yank it & I have my content viewing tablet again using the Metro side.

Could the Metro interface be better? Sure, but like anything once you know how to do the basics it works fine. Just a different way to do something. Because it is so different & MS decided they had the runway to force it on people, they did.

Hey can you blame them for trying to cause a disruption? Android and iOS7 are basically twins, Win8/Metro is a different idea.

Here is the real question, Office for iOS and Android, hummmmm, what would YOU do if you ran MS ? There are big bucks sitting on the table...
 
Weird, I replied to my own post shortly after submitting it, and that reply seems to have vanished. Well, I took a look at the user guide for OpenShot and that thing has more capability and features than I thought. I'm gonna play with it a bit more, but it seems to lack the ability to author a DVD, so I can't get rid of my Sony VMS just yet. I realize DVD is passe, but I put together a bunch of clips each year of my daughters various activities onto a menu-driven DVD, so its more a tradition than anything else. I'm gonna try using OpenShot for all the source HD clips that I edit, title, fade, etc. and just leave as individual clips that I then view on my WD media player on my HD TV off a USB harddrive.
 
jjoyce said:
There is now a device that can do BOTH tasks...
Could the Metro interface be better? Sure, but like anything once you know how to do the basics it works fine. Just a different way to do something. Because it is so different & MS decided they had the runway to force it on people, they did.

Hey can you blame them for trying to cause a disruption? Android and iOS7 are basically twins, Win8/Metro is a different idea.
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Even if Metro was hugely better implemented than it is... it's just a platform for supporting apps. And the selection/quality of Metro apps suck rocks when compared to iOS and Android.

Metro doesn't compare well with iOS/Android, the apps aren't close to being there, and the whole thing is encumbered with a Vista-like image and reputation.

This parrot is dead!
 
malch said:
Even if Metro was hugely better implemented than it is... it's just a platform for supporting apps. And the selection/quality of Metro apps suck rocks when compared to iOS and Android.
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Truer words are seldom written: "it's just a platform for supporting apps."

That's what operating systems are. In the heat of discussing our various OS opinions, it's easy to forget that. But it's really what matters most. OSs exist to run applications; the OS of choice is generally what does the best job of running the applications each user needs. Thanks for the reminder.
Member said:
Metro doesn't compare well with iOS/Android, the apps aren't close to being there, and the whole thing is encumbered with a Vista-like image and reputation.

This parrot is dead!
Click to expand...
No, no, 'e's just resting.

;-)
 
the only complain about windows 8 I can understand is that it is basically designed in the way that it forces you to sign in with an online ID. I can understand that some people don't want that. apart that it's nothing wrong with it. the UI is actually better, easier and more organized than what windows 7 had. you just click the start button and the programs menu opens for you and it's clear and easy to navigate and you can organize it the way you like it and want it. it's basically what we used to do with desktop shortucuts in windows 7 just much better. I mean even under windows 7 I wasn't like clicking on start then clicking on programs and navigating through all those programs and finally clicking the program I wanted but I had program shortcuts on the desktop. I really can't understand why anyone would prefer the old way of accessing programs because it was slower and less organized. I mean even with previous versions of windows people used shortcuts on desktop or taksbar to access their programs faster and easier so I don't see how getting rid of that useless start menu made things worse.

of course switching to windows 8 was a bit hard in the first days because you just had to get used to it but after two weeks I already forgot how windows used to work before.
 
".....windows 8 I can understand is that it is basically designed in the way that it forces you to sign in with an online ID."

No it does not require that. Neither does 8.1.

Read the "fine print", the print that is dulled down and not obvious. Shame, shame, on you MS!!!!

Tom
 
CAcreeks said:
Sean Nelson said:
CAcreeks said:
CAcreeks said:
Microsoft Barney. Microsoft iLoo.
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I wouldn't believe it if there were not a Wikipedia article. Still seems like a hoax.
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Looks like you didn't read the second paragraph of the article...
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This sentence of the 2nd paragraph, you mean?

"On May 13, another Microsoft press release stated that although the project had not been a hoax, it had been cancelled..."
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Looks like I didn't read the second paragraph of the article...
 
tom graham said:
".....windows 8 I can understand is that it is basically designed in the way that it forces you to sign in with an online ID."

No it does not require that. Neither does 8.1.

Read the "fine print", the print that is dulled down and not obvious. Shame, shame, on you MS!!!!

Tom
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well it does if you want to use all the features it offers otherwise you can of course use the "offline" version too.
 
If they say they had been hindered from implementing advanced desktop features like multiple desktops for fear of confusing a novice user then do they say that creating a whole new different dumbed-down UI is the only option? How about adding an item in the Control Panel at Control Panel -> Advanced Settings -> Turn on Multiple Desktops. Hey Microsoft, was that so hard to come up with something like this? A novice user would never even go there so how would it confuse him? Instead of providing obvious and simple solutions to problems MS is creating another even more confusing UI in order not to confuse people. I can't see how this can work. The Reddit article worries me a bit - not because the reasons presented there are bad but because it proves than people at MS really have some kind of screwed-up thinking processes that block them from implementing the most obvious and intuitive solutions. The tendency to complicate stuff seems to be ingrained in their minds so much that they themselves are not aware of it.

Another thing: MS say they created metro for the computer illiterate who just use computers for consumption. I don't know what kind of people MS have in mind because I know many people who I can call 'novice users' (among my family and friends) and none of them actually uses the computer for content consumption only. Sure, sometimes they use it to look up something on the internet but in majority of cases they have a computer because they need to use it for work or for personal content creation like making family dvd movies or editing photos. Even if they are novice users and use an email application, Word and Excel (installed by someone more knowledgeable) they are not a target audience for metro - in fact metro scares the hell out of them because it confuses them and doesn't allow them to do what they want. So I'm really wondering - where are all the people who are the target for metro? Or is it that MS intends to create that target group and hopes there will be more of those illiterate little sisters who just consume stuff and don't have anything else to do in life?

--
Michal.
 
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Austinian said:
malch said:
Even if Metro was hugely better implemented than it is... it's just a platform for supporting apps. And the selection/quality of Metro apps suck rocks when compared to iOS and Android.
Click to expand...
Truer words are seldom written: "it's just a platform for supporting apps."

That's what operating systems are. In the heat of discussing our various OS opinions, it's easy to forget that. But it's really what matters most. OSs exist to run applications; the OS of choice is generally what does the best job of running the applications each user needs. Thanks for the reminder.
Austinian said:
Metro doesn't compare well with iOS/Android, the apps aren't close to being there, and the whole thing is encumbered with a Vista-like image and reputation.

This parrot is dead!
Click to expand...
No, no, 'e's just resting.

;-)
Click to expand...
Humm, apps, but what app is exactly missing? You guys are missing the point. I have a full machine = Corei5 Surface Pro, there is more stuff available on the surface pro than on iOS or Andriod. I can run any desktop app, Office PLUS any of the mainstream phone/tablet only apps have a Metro version.

Not sure what is missing.
 
jjoyce said:
Austinian said:
malch said:
Even if Metro was hugely better implemented than it is... it's just a platform for supporting apps. And the selection/quality of Metro apps suck rocks when compared to iOS and Android.
Click to expand...
Truer words are seldom written: "it's just a platform for supporting apps."

That's what operating systems are. In the heat of discussing our various OS opinions, it's easy to forget that. But it's really what matters most. OSs exist to run applications; the OS of choice is generally what does the best job of running the applications each user needs. Thanks for the reminder.
Member said:
Metro doesn't compare well with iOS/Android, the apps aren't close to being there, and the whole thing is encumbered with a Vista-like image and reputation.

This parrot is dead!
Click to expand...
No, no, 'e's just resting.

;-)
Click to expand...
Humm, apps, but what app is exactly missing? You guys are missing the point. I have a full machine = Corei5 Surface Pro, there is more stuff available on the surface pro than on iOS or Andriod. I can run any desktop app, Office PLUS any of the mainstream phone/tablet only apps have a Metro version.

Not sure what is missing.
Click to expand...
You have a full Win 8.1 machine that runs all the usual desktop apps, yes? Then nothing is missing from your machine. It's fine.

Malch is the one talking about Metro apps vs. iOS/Android. I'll let him speak for himself. I care nothing for iOS and little for Android; my tablet is mostly for backup Net access when I travel.

For me, it's the usefulness of desktop vs. Metro apps. Lightroom for Metro? DxO Optics Pro for Metro? Haven't heard of them yet.

Remember, many of us here already own the desktop applications we need. For me to buy a Metro version, it would have to be better than the existing, paid-for desktop versions I already have.

I have a Windows 8.1 install on this tower PC I can boot from at the flip of a switch, and a 8.1 laptop as well. So when/if I find a Metro app that works well with my existing setup, I'll use it without a problem.
 
Very well stated Michal. Not being a computer nerd I find it is getting to be a pain trying to comprehend and make use of each new "improved", 'easy -to-use' system. MS is especially ignorant of what makes a system "consumer friendly". Samsung is by far the worst offender in designing in "computer rage". Perhaps they could just ask the average user what works. Now that's an idea!
 
Austinian said:
jjoyce said:
Austinian said:
malch said:
Even if Metro was hugely better implemented than it is... it's just a platform for supporting apps. And the selection/quality of Metro apps suck rocks when compared to iOS and Android.
Click to expand...
Truer words are seldom written: "it's just a platform for supporting apps."

That's what operating systems are. In the heat of discussing our various OS opinions, it's easy to forget that. But it's really what matters most. OSs exist to run applications; the OS of choice is generally what does the best job of running the applications each user needs. Thanks for the reminder.
Austinian said:
Metro doesn't compare well with iOS/Android, the apps aren't close to being there, and the whole thing is encumbered with a Vista-like image and reputation.

This parrot is dead!
Click to expand...
No, no, 'e's just resting.

;-)
Click to expand...
Humm, apps, but what app is exactly missing? You guys are missing the point. I have a full machine = Corei5 Surface Pro, there is more stuff available on the surface pro than on iOS or Andriod. I can run any desktop app, Office PLUS any of the mainstream phone/tablet only apps have a Metro version.

Not sure what is missing.
Click to expand...
You have a full Win 8.1 machine that runs all the usual desktop apps, yes? Then nothing is missing from your machine. It's fine.

Malch is the one talking about Metro apps vs. iOS/Android. I'll let him speak for himself. I care nothing for iOS and little for Android; my tablet is mostly for backup Net access when I travel.

For me, it's the usefulness of desktop vs. Metro apps. Lightroom for Metro? DxO Optics Pro for Metro? Haven't heard of them yet.

Remember, many of us here already own the desktop applications we need. For me to buy a Metro version, it would have to be better than the existing, paid-for desktop versions I already have.

I have a Windows 8.1 install on this tower PC I can boot from at the flip of a switch, and a 8.1 laptop as well. So when/if I find a Metro app that works well with my existing setup, I'll use it without a problem.
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Agree that Windows RT tablets have an app issue.

Surface Pro does not have the issue, I run LM on this without issue. I even have a microSD card in my D600 2nd slot via SD adapter. I can pop the microSD card into the tablet slot, view pics full size or bring up LM process and put them where ever on the internet.

Only have been messing with this for a week, I am sure I will find some limitations, but it may be able to replace my laptop and my tablet into one small device. Finally!
 
jjoyce said:
I have a full machine = Corei5 Surface Pro, there is more stuff available on the surface pro than on iOS or Andriod. I can run any desktop app, Office PLUS any of the mainstream phone/tablet only apps have a Metro version.
Not sure what is missing.
Click to expand...
What's missing is apps to remote control my GoPro Hero, Panasonic GH3 and Sony RX100M2 via WiFi. There are a lot of these kinds of device-control apps that are being developed only for mobile platforms. iOS and Android are getting all of these, but not very many are making their way to Windows in either the classic desktop or Metro variants.
 
DonA2 said:
Perhaps they could just ask the average user what works. Now that's an idea!
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking about, too. I really believe the best course of action MS could take right now is admit that they don't have the skill and capacity to create new trends as well as they don't have the capacity to assess what works for people. Therefore, the most successful plan for the next OS would be like this:
  1. Browse the internet for opinions about Windows 8 and fix/change what most people dislike and keep/improve what people like in this OS.
  2. Add a few improvements and features that people report were missing in the current and previous versions of Windows.
  3. Release the test version, publish it on their blog and ask people for comments.
  4. The most important part: LISTEN to the comments and take action accordingly - remove/change/fix what most people don't like and keep/improve/enhance what people like.
  5. Polish any remaining bugs.
  6. Release.
I doubt if MS have the courage/wisdom/common sense/whatever that is needed to follow such a simple plan :)
 
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