Fuji XT1 versus Nikon DF

mfouks · Feb 22, 2014

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and Fuji. I have a Nikon D800 and am looking for a lighter walk around camera for street/travel photography. I don't know anyone who has a Fuji camera but I have read great things about them. My camera dealer suggested that the new XT1 would be much better for a second camera than the Nikon DF since it will be lighter (with lighter lenses). My question is would the DF image quality be much better overall and also when using higher ISO's. I really don't want to compromise on IQ but I would appreciated the lighter weight. I don't really print larger than 22 * 17.

Thanks.

olakiril2 · Feb 22, 2014

mfouks said:
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and Fuji. I have a Nikon D800 and am looking for a lighter walk around camera for street/travel photography.

Same here.

mfouks said:
My camera dealer suggested that the new XT1 would be much better for a second camera than the Nikon DF since it will be lighter (with lighter lenses). My question is would the DF image quality be much better overall and also when using higher ISO's. I really don't want to compromise on IQ but I would appreciated the lighter weight. I don't really print larger than 22 * 17.

I have tried multiple walk around cameras but non of them stack around.

Df is certainly a better choice for high ISO shooting, but I can't justify the price. Especially since its size is not that different from the D800 and depending on the lens it can be much heaver setup than the X-T1.

I decided to buy the X-T1, since not only it is lighter/smaller (I will use the beautiful 35 1.4 nokton), but in dark situations I think I will appreciate the EVF. But if it does not have the responsiveness of the D800 it will most definitely go back.

mnm207 · Feb 22, 2014

The X-T1 is significantly smaller than the DF let alone the D800. I don't have an X-T1; my experience is with an X-Pro1, which is much more compact than a friend's D800 or my a850 and roughly similar in size to an X-T1.

As far as image quality, you'll do fine with any of the X cameras. I've exhibited 20x30's from my x100 alongside prints from my a850 and they hold up. Likewise, I've used my a850 and X-Pro1 concurrently on commercial projects and the X-Pro1 images hold up just fine.

-m

sgoldswo · Feb 22, 2014

mfouks said:
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and Fuji. I have a Nikon D800 and am looking for a lighter walk around camera for street/travel photography. I don't know anyone who has a Fuji camera but I have read great things about them. My camera dealer suggested that the new XT1 would be much better for a second camera than the Nikon DF since it will be lighter (with lighter lenses). My question is would the DF image quality be much better overall and also when using higher ISO's. I really don't want to compromise on IQ but I would appreciated the lighter weight. I don't really print larger than 22 * 17.

Thanks.

I've had a Df for many months and have used Fuji cameras for many years now, since the X100. I received an XT1 yesterday. First impressions of the XT1 are extremely positive, it feels good in hand, the AF is snappy (snappier than the previous X cameras) and the image quality is pretty damn amazing for an APS-C camera. It is light, but compact and solidly built. The only real downsides I've found thus far is that I don't like the recessed buttons and the dials around the dials (for metering etc) are too easy to knock. Basically, it is an extremely good example of a mirror less camera. The EVF is stunningly good.

BUT... I would never give up my Df for the X-T1. The Df has nicer image quality all around, particularly at high ISO. In fact, the D4/Df sensor is one of the best I've ever come across - it practically sees in the dark. The biggest difference in image quality you'll see is at high ISOs where the Df is off the scale good - DXO rates it the best 35mm sensor at high ISO and with good reason. Contrary to what you may have heard, the AF on the Df is excellent and the dials are incredibly intuitive. It's heavier than an XT1 (about 700g) but it's better in hand if you have larger hands.

I'm basically locked into Fuji now - I'll take a big loss if I sell, and frankly its handy to have an APS-C camera with a smaller body for certain purposes. Thus it made sense to me to buy the XT1 as a complement to my other cameras (I'll quietly ebay my X-E2). I cannot take a DSLR everywhere.

If you have only zooms for your D800, they won't be too much use on the Df anyway. If however you have primes, the Df might well make more sense since you won't need to buy new lenses and the image quality will be better.

However, my own recommendation of the Df needs to be weighed against the fact that the Df is expensive, more expensive than the XT1.

mfouks · Feb 22, 2014

Thank you everyone for your responses. It is great to hear from someone who uses both Fuji and Nikon. Sgold- I do have a 24mm 1.4 lens, other than that I have all zooms but one of them is the 24-120 which isn't too heavy. It is actually my favourite lens for just walking around and is on the camera about 80% of the time.

I guess I want the impossible- a really light set-up with the best image quality going, especially in low light. People either hate or like the DF- but the people who own it actually really seem to love it. The Fuji XT1 also looks like a great camera and obviously a much lighter setup. I guess the other other that bothers me is starting on a brand new system again with new lenses however, I wouldn't need many. I was going to start with the 35mm lens and perhaps add a new zoom when it comes in. Probably for the same price in total as the DF with its kit lens. So I guess price is a non-issue because I would end up having to spend the same amount at the end either way.

Thanks again,

sgoldswo said:
mfouks said:

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and Fuji. I have a Nikon D800 and am looking for a lighter walk around camera for street/travel photography. I don't know anyone who has a Fuji camera but I have read great things about them. My camera dealer suggested that the new XT1 would be much better for a second camera than the Nikon DF since it will be lighter (with lighter lenses). My question is would the DF image quality be much better overall and also when using higher ISO's. I really don't want to compromise on IQ but I would appreciated the lighter weight. I don't really print larger than 22 * 17.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I've had a Df for many months and have used Fuji cameras for many years now, since the X100. I received an XT1 yesterday. First impressions of the XT1 are extremely positive, it feels good in hand, the AF is snappy (snappier than the previous X cameras) and the image quality is pretty damn amazing for an APS-C camera. It is light, but compact and solidly built. The only real downsides I've found thus far is that I don't like the recessed buttons and the dials around the dials (for metering etc) are too easy to knock. Basically, it is an extremely good example of a mirror less camera. The EVF is stunningly good.

BUT... I would never give up my Df for the X-T1. The Df has nicer image quality all around, particularly at high ISO. In fact, the D4/Df sensor is one of the best I've ever come across - it practically sees in the dark. The biggest difference in image quality you'll see is at high ISOs where the Df is off the scale good - DXO rates it the best 35mm sensor at high ISO and with good reason. Contrary to what you may have heard, the AF on the Df is excellent and the dials are incredibly intuitive. It's heavier than an XT1 (about 700g) but it's better in hand if you have larger hands.

I'm basically locked into Fuji now - I'll take a big loss if I sell, and frankly its handy to have an APS-C camera with a smaller body for certain purposes. Thus it made sense to me to buy the XT1 as a complement to my other cameras (I'll quietly ebay my X-E2). I cannot take a DSLR everywhere.

If you have only zooms for your D800, they won't be too much use on the Df anyway. If however you have primes, the Df might well make more sense since you won't need to buy new lenses and the image quality will be better.

However, my own recommendation of the Df needs to be weighed against the fact that the Df is expensive, more expensive than the XT1.

--
http://sgoldswoblog.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sgoldswo/

Christof21 · Feb 22, 2014

mfouks said:
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and Fuji. I have a Nikon D800 and am looking for a lighter walk around camera for street/travel photography. I don't know anyone who has a Fuji camera but I have read great things about them. My camera dealer suggested that the new XT1 would be much better for a second camera than the Nikon DF since it will be lighter (with lighter lenses). My question is would the DF image quality be much better overall and also when using higher ISO's. I really don't want to compromise on IQ but I would appreciated the lighter weight. I don't really print larger than 22 * 17.

Thanks.

X-trans cameras are not rated on dxomarks... So it is difficult to compare. If you look at ISO comparisons, be aware that the Fuji overstated its ISO (about 1/3 ev)

Some people say that the Fuji can compete with FF in terms of high ISO performance. Of course not, a FF is about 1 stop better, especially if you compare with the Nikon Df which has a very good sensor !

But IMO, you do not really compromise IQ, or slightly. You can have cleaner (less grainy) images with Nikon Df but with the cost of thinner dof. With Fuji, you have very fast prime lenses, so most of the time, I do not need wider apertures. If I wanted wider equivalent apertures, I would go FF.

It makes more sense as a second camera to have the x-t1.

Sal Baker · Feb 22, 2014

mfouks said:
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and Fuji. I have a Nikon D800 and am looking for a lighter walk around camera for street/travel photography. I don't know anyone who has a Fuji camera but I have read great things about them. My camera dealer suggested that the new XT1 would be much better for a second camera than the Nikon DF since it will be lighter (with lighter lenses). My question is would the DF image quality be much better overall and also when using higher ISO's. I really don't want to compromise on IQ but I would appreciated the lighter weight. I don't really print larger than 22 * 17.

Thanks.

Fortunately this is very easy to see first-hand. I was in the same boat, wanting to have a more compact and fun to use camera, even if IQ suffered a bit. I was quite surprised by how well the X-E2 replaced my FF 5DII (noted that the 5DII did not have a Sony sensor).

Simply go to Imaging Resource and download full-size RAW files or jpegs in their test sample section. Pick similar subject matter (the still-life toward the bottoms is always good) and compare in PS or your favorite RAW converter. The X-T1 and Df are not reviewed yet but pick cameras with the same sensors (D4 and x100s or X-E1).

When I compared the D4 and X-E1 RAW files up to ISO 800 I was impressed that the X-E1 held up so well. Just minor PP tweaks made the images look identical. A good trade-off considering the size and fun factor of the Fuji and the stellar glass.

Nothing beats your own comparison with your own workflow.

Sal

ryan2007 · Feb 22, 2014

mfouks said:
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and Fuji. I have a Nikon D800 and am looking for a lighter walk around camera for street/travel photography. I don't know anyone who has a Fuji camera but I have read great things about them. My camera dealer suggested that the new XT1 would be much better for a second camera than the Nikon DF since it will be lighter (with lighter lenses). My question is would the DF image quality be much better overall and also when using higher ISO's. I really don't want to compromise on IQ but I would appreciated the lighter weight. I don't really print larger than 22 * 17.

Thanks.

I think the Fuji X100s with the 28 mm conversion lens and soon to be 50 mm conversion lens would be a better compact system. You still get the APS-C sensor and the F stop remains F 2.0 with all the accessory lenses.

Then I would look to the the Fuji XT-1 after the X100s.

khunfred · Feb 22, 2014

mfouks said:
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and Fuji. I have a Nikon D800 and am looking for a lighter walk around camera for street/travel photography. I don't know anyone who has a Fuji camera but I have read great things about them. My camera dealer suggested that the new XT1 would be much better for a second camera than the Nikon DF since it will be lighter (with lighter lenses). My question is would the DF image quality be much better overall and also when using higher ISO's. I really don't want to compromise on IQ but I would appreciated the lighter weight. I don't really print larger than 22 * 17.

Thanks.

It depends on your uses: about IQ, as far as I can judge from downloaded RAW files, I'd buy a DF only for very high ISOs. XT1 will be great until 1600 ISO, even a little bit higher (depends on situations and your own requirements). If you really want a small size camera, this is a key point for purchasing a Xt1. But shooting with an EVF is really much different than shooting with an OVF, and Fuji AF speed is definitly slower.

khunfred · Feb 22, 2014

ryan2007 said:
I think the Fuji X100s with the 28 mm conversion lens and soon to be 50 mm conversion lens would be a better compact system. You still get the APS-C sensor and the F stop remains F 2.0 with all the accessory lenses.

Then I would look to the the Fuji XT-1 after the X100s.

I agree with you. Today I've ordered this X100s because the new 50 mm converter makes it a more flexible camera. In addition to the 28mm converter, now it's a small pocketable camera system by itself. Enough for amateurs like me, and even for some professional uses who don't need a fast AF.

deednets · Feb 22, 2014

mfouks said:
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and Fuji. I have a Nikon D800 and am looking for a lighter walk around camera for street/travel photography. I don't know anyone who has a Fuji camera but I have read great things about them. My camera dealer suggested that the new XT1 would be much better for a second camera than the Nikon DF since it will be lighter (with lighter lenses). My question is would the DF image quality be much better overall and also when using higher ISO's. I really don't want to compromise on IQ but I would appreciated the lighter weight. I don't really print larger than 22 * 17.

Thanks.

Quality wise I have compared the D800 to the X-E1 and have done some outdoor and studio shots with both systems.

I use Capture One Pro as a RAW converter and in April last year I compared the two cameras head to head in a studio enviroment.

I have posted these crops before, you take your pick, one taken with the D800 the other one with the X-E1. For the sake of this comparison I took what looked the sharpest and closest from both cameras, don't worry so much about the white balance since this could be changed either way.

I now use the X-E2 with what I would consider absolutely stellar glass, 14/2.8 23/1.4 35/1.4 and 60/2.4 Macro (the first to go when I can afford the 56/1.2 ...). My favourite is the 23/1.4 there is a certain creamyness in the images, a relaxed effortlessness in dealing with contrast and microcontrast, that is IMO very hard to beat! I will go to Canyonland, Antelope, Bryce, the Zion etc. will take a few PocketWizards and a few off camera flashes. The beauty of this? I can fit it all into a daypack that doesn't break the back.

Good luck with your endeavours!

Cheers

Deed

gerard boulanger · Feb 22, 2014

High ISO on the Df sensor will give you better results than the Fuji X system. I am a Fuji fan, but still...

If I were you, I would consider the X-100 s, you might be impress by the size/weight/leaf shutter completely silent/high speed sync flash/IQ

ryan2007 · Feb 22, 2014

khunfred said:
khunfred said:

I think the Fuji X100s with the 28 mm conversion lens and soon to be 50 mm conversion lens would be a better compact system. You still get the APS-C sensor and the F stop remains F 2.0 with all the accessory lenses.

Then I would look to the the Fuji XT-1 after the X100s.

Click to expand...

I agree with you. Today I've ordered this X100s because the new 50 mm converter makes it a more flexible camera. In addition to the 28mm converter, now it's a small pocketable camera system by itself. Enough for amateurs like me, and even for some professional uses who don't need a fast AF.

Sounds good. A FYI for you. you have to remove the ring in front of the manual focus ring of the X100s to attach the conversion lens. It is difficult to do. The trick is to leave the lens cap of the x100s on and give a very gentle push and turn to loosen the ring so you can grab onto it. I actually found this out by searching DPreview and that tip was from like 4 years ago, it works.

FYI, if you get the filter adaptor ring so you can attach a filter to the X100s with the lens hood be sure to read the directions in the X100s owners manual. You can attach this backwards and the filter goes on and gets stuck. I had to gently use pliers to remove the filter it was so tight. Basically the filter ring adaptor has tabs that have to face away from the camera as described in the manual which I did not read till it was too late but fixed myself.

Anyway read the manual.

last, if the grip of the x100s seems shallow or hard to hold, my fingers were kind of Jammed together I bought the really right stuff hand grip and base plate. I like it and it makes handling better IMO. I also ordered from lens mate the thumb rest and from Garitz the soft release button.

oh, I have a protective filter for the 28 mm and the camera itself.

Robert Garcia NYC · Feb 22, 2014

I would wait for reviews and (non hype) real world impressions. For the price/size I would go with the XT1 but since you have a nikon already you prolly have lenses/flashes etc. I might just spring for the DF. For me it would depend on lowlight shooting and post production.

Liviu Namolovan · Feb 22, 2014

Fuji has come a long way. Their new cameras are beautifully designed. It's a pleasure to use them. And have "the look"; Fuji cameras are absolutely beautiful! Also great straight out of the cameras jpegs. But the overall quality of the images taken with Fuji APS-C sensors simply cannot compare with the smoothness, rich tones and cleanliness of an image produced by a FF sensor.

mfouks · Feb 22, 2014

Thanks again everyone for all of your comments. My general take from reading everyone's comments is that the new Fuji is a great camera and has a clear advantage with the weight but the DF still has the advantage of the full frame sensor which I kind of knew. A tough decision- both cameras are probably excellent and I'm thinking I wouldn't go wrong with either one. I like the idea of a lighter camera (but not too small) but I don't want to give up image quality especially at higher ISO's. The consensus is that the DF is probably overpriced, however to start with Fuji would mean additional lenses so I would probably end up paying the same amount overall. If I used the Df with just the kit lens or another prime for walking around with it might be light enough for me. Most of the photography is done on photo tours so the emphasis is definitely on image quality.

whiteyblack · Feb 22, 2014

Just for perspective:

There are only a few cameras that beat Fuji 16MP Xtrans IQ. The D800 and Df are two. I'd like to have a camera with the Df's sensor, but the Df is a leviathan compared to the X-T1. It's 75% heavier! The Df being smaller than the D800 is like saying a school bus is smaller than a tour bus.

And all three of these cameras have the viewfinder in the wrong place

Astrophotographer 10 · Feb 22, 2014

May I compliment you on being the first person this week on these forums to spell complement correctly!! Apparently a lot of posters here want to compliment their cameras but buying a 2nd one. They must sit at the breakfast table and say nice things to their camera. Its kind of touching really.

Interesting read. I only held a DF for the first time about a week ago. It seemed fine. The dials looked a little odd and unnatural to me but that was just a brief view.

The D4 sensor is the main appeal of the DF to me. It seems to be a polarising camera in that people either seem to love it or dislike it. But then it was always intended as a niche product.

Greg.

Astrophotographer 10 · Feb 22, 2014

They look remarkably similar in terms of sharpness. I'd go with the 2nd one being the XE1 because the colours look better, more XE1-like. The top one has warmer colours and not quite as pleasing. Too low in the blue channel.

Greg.

deednets · Feb 22, 2014

Astrophotographer 10 said:
They look remarkably similar in terms of sharpness. I'd go with the 2nd one being the XE1 because the colours look better, more XE1-like. The top one has warmer colours and not quite as pleasing. Too low in the blue channel.

Greg.

You are right the second one is the Fuji, but of course white balance can be adjusted!

Deed

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