DF reaches the end of the line for me!

ianbrown

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Having had a DF about 4 weeks ago. I only had it a few days and decided to return it, mainly due to buyers remorse due to the cost, but mainly because I am a Zoom guy and have never really got to grips with primes.

I also felt the camera was difficult to grip and felt unbalanced as soon as you put anything like a heavy lens on it.

However after reading a very interesting blog from InTheMist I reconsidered and bought an open box DF wich was £550 off the original price.

I went on holiday with the DF and 24-85 - 24mm D - 35mm D and Tamron 70-300

During my holiday I took 950 images in which the subjects were limited due to it being a Sun Sea and Sand winter break.

I deliberately only had the 24 and 35 with me when I went out for the day so I could try and adapt to primes.

The outcome was that I just couldn't get used to the primes, now I really wish I could but I have always been the sort of person who likes to compose tightly and therefore a zoom is more appropriate for me.

Consequently I started to use the 24-85 and if stayed on for the rest of the holiday, and it produced some very nice images, but it's not the sharpest lens particularly wide open and at the edges. So I thought I may need to get the 24-70 f2.8 or at least 16-35 f4 but both are fairly heavy.

However in my opinion if you are going to put heavier zooms on the DF then you should at least have an option for a battery grip to get a better balance. looking at most of the reviews coming out they point to this camera with primes as being the best option.

Maybe I should have perceviered more with the primes but I really don't think they would work for me.

So I can return this camera as a part ex and loose £200 which I think is ok, I notice a couple have gone with 50mm lens on ebay for just £1700 and only with a couple of bids so I think this camera re-sell value won't be great.

I will post some images I took on holiday with the 24-85 as the IQ was good in the centre and the Tamron performed very well for the price.

I guess for me the zooms negate the real reason for buying the DF, that said some people will be happy to slap on a heavy lens and just live with it.

I guess I should have know fast glass means weight in terms of zooms , it's as simple as that!

what the DF did do, is make me more considered about the shot, ie you have no option but to be more deliberate with the settings as the ISO, exp comp and shutter speed settings are not as slick to set as on mainstream DSLR's, but then again most people know that before they buy.

The DF gives you a trip down memory lane but for me there were just too many sacrifices, or you could say I was just being lazy not using my feet to compose!!!!!

cheers

Ian
 
Ian,

this is a very odd post. Your flits across the forums around ownership of Oly, Sony, Panasonic, Nikon and Canon cameras are becoming legendary. It's just, well, this story seems a wee bit odd, to be frank. why sell a camera then buy another one a few weeks later. I get that if you sold a camera you have used and loved for years, but one you owned for five minutes and didn't like?

thanks,

simon
Having had a DF about 4 weeks ago. I only had it a few days and decided to return it, mainly due to buyers remorse due to the cost, but mainly because I am a Zoom guy and have never really got to grips with primes.

I also felt the camera was difficult to grip and felt unbalanced as soon as you put anything like a heavy lens on it.

However after reading a very interesting blog from InTheMist I reconsidered and bought an open box DF wich was £550 off the original price.

I went on holiday with the DF and 24-85 - 24mm D - 35mm D and Tamron 70-300

During my holiday I took 950 images in which the subjects were limited due to it being a Sun Sea and Sand winter break.

I deliberately only had the 24 and 35 with me when I went out for the day so I could try and adapt to primes.

The outcome was that I just couldn't get used to the primes, now I really wish I could but I have always been the sort of person who likes to compose tightly and therefore a zoom is more appropriate for me.

Consequently I started to use the 24-85 and if stayed on for the rest of the holiday, and it produced some very nice images, but it's not the sharpest lens particularly wide open and at the edges. So I thought I may need to get the 24-70 f2.8 or at least 16-35 f4 but both are fairly heavy.

However in my opinion if you are going to put heavier zooms on the DF then you should at least have an option for a battery grip to get a better balance. looking at most of the reviews coming out they point to this camera with primes as being the best option.

Maybe I should have perceviered more with the primes but I really don't think they would work for me.

So I can return this camera as a part ex and loose £200 which I think is ok, I notice a couple have gone with 50mm lens on ebay for just £1700 and only with a couple of bids so I think this camera re-sell value won't be great.

I will post some images I took on holiday with the 24-85 as the IQ was good in the centre and the Tamron performed very well for the price.

I guess for me the zooms negate the real reason for buying the DF, that said some people will be happy to slap on a heavy lens and just live with it.

I guess I should have know fast glass means weight in terms of zooms , it's as simple as that!

what the DF did do, is make me more considered about the shot, ie you have no option but to be more deliberate with the settings as the ISO, exp comp and shutter speed settings are not as slick to set as on mainstream DSLR's, but then again most people know that before they buy.

The DF gives you a trip down memory lane but for me there were just too many sacrifices, or you could say I was just being lazy not using my feet to compose!!!!!

cheers

Ian
 
I understand some folks have a preference for a particular thing and it takes a while to decide. I for one took a while to decide which was the right camera for me and had multiple visits to different camera shops to play with cameras I was interested in. Other than the D700, D3 series and D4, I wasn't much of a fan of the other FX cameras that came out so I never upgraded my D300. I posted in some other thread my decision to go with the Df came after visiting several shops in HK and then deciding.

Ian, it seems you want to like the Df but at the same time it seems to not be the camera for you. It is a new design and quite different than the current DSLRs and like anything new takes some getting used to. I must admit I also initially felt it was best used with primes and I do like using it that way but I also have gotten used to using it with my 70-200 2.8 VR lens and my "old iron" Tokina 28-70 2.8. I will admit that when I travel overseas I will most likely be taking a couple of primes with me instead of the heavier zooms and the Df. For local places where I can drive without worrying about the added weight I'll be taking the heavier lens and my tripod, for those times when it will come in handy.

Now you have at least had the opportunity to use the camera a bit and got some images with it, post a few when you get a chance. Good luck with finding the right equipment for your use.
 
I use big primes with my Df all the time (200f/2, 300f/2.8). I'm assuming your referring to street or holiday type shooting when talking about balance and using something lighter. Obviously with the big lenses attached to any camera the balance point is under the lens.
 
Uhmm. thanks Ian. I thought you had already started a thread on this? Must be mistaken...

It strikes me as odd... As someone who loves photography... and hey, let's not kid ourselves, the gear, that people continue to inform me as to why this camera is not for them.

I knew the D800 was not for me from the get go. When people who had it posted- that informed me further, and I appreciated the information. I never felt the need to contribute to every thread discussing the D800 to let everyone know why the D800 wasn't for me. Strange. Or how Nikon had let me down? I just saw that a new camera was released, evaluated it and made a decision. I listened to further discussions which confirmed my decision.

I don't know that this is the facebook-ization of the boards? But for me I want to hear from people who have gear and what they think of it. Not people who don't because...

Anyway Ian, I had thought I thanked you once before... and wished you well. If not I do again.
 
Uhmm. thanks Ian. I thought you had already started a thread on this? Must be mistaken...

It strikes me as odd... As someone who loves photography... and hey, let's not kid ourselves, the gear, that people continue to inform me as to why this camera is not for them.

I knew the D800 was not for me from the get go. When people who had it posted- that informed me further, and I appreciated the information. I never felt the need to contribute to every thread discussing the D800 to let everyone know why the D800 wasn't for me. Strange. Or how Nikon had let me down? I just saw that a new camera was released, evaluated it and made a decision. I listened to further discussions which confirmed my decision.

I don't know that this is the facebook-ization of the boards? But for me I want to hear from people who have gear and what they think of it. Not people who don't because...

Anyway Ian, I had thought I thanked you once before... and wished you well. If not I do again.
Why are you always in these DF threads defending this camera ?. I don't understand the emotional attachment to these things, its just a plastic camera ? Shouldn't you ignore all this nonsense and enjoy "your" camera ?
 
I deliberately only had the 24 and 35 with me when I went out for the day so I could try and adapt to primes.

The outcome was that I just couldn't get used to the primes, now I really wish I could but I have always been the sort of person who likes to compose tightly and therefore a zoom is more appropriate for me.

...

Maybe I should have perceviered more with the primes but I really don't think they would work for me.
Those of us who grew up with primes—zooms were not of sufficient quality at the time—learned a different way of looking for shots. You go out with a lens and you develop a sense of its field of view. Then you look for compositions that fit that FOV. IMO, that is a good way to work if you are just going out looking for interesting images.

By concentrating on a specific field of view, you mind can block out all other possibilities and you start seeing compositions you might have missed if your mind was looking for all possibilites (using a zoom).

I think the amazing compositions of Henri Cartier-Bresson show the benefits of removing options. For his personal shooting he just used a 50mm lens on a Leica 35mm rangefinder camera. Limiting himself to one focal length allowed him to refine his "eye" to a highly sophisticated level.

Going out with just one lens is a good exercise. It may change the way you photograph.
 
I deliberately only had the 24 and 35 with me when I went out for the day so I could try and adapt to primes.

The outcome was that I just couldn't get used to the primes, now I really wish I could but I have always been the sort of person who likes to compose tightly and therefore a zoom is more appropriate for me.

...

Maybe I should have perceviered more with the primes but I really don't think they would work for me.
Those of us who grew up with primes—zooms were not of sufficient quality at the time—learned a different way of looking for shots. You go out with a lens and you develop a sense of its field of view. Then you look for compositions that fit that FOV. IMO, that is a good way to work if you are just going out looking for interesting images.

By concentrating on a specific field of view, you mind can block out all other possibilities and you start seeing compositions you might have missed if your mind was looking for all possibilites (using a zoom).

I think the amazing compositions of Henri Cartier-Bresson show the benefits of removing options. For his personal shooting he just used a 50mm lens on a Leica 35mm rangefinder camera. Limiting himself to one focal length allowed him to refine his "eye" to a highly sophisticated level.

Going out with just one lens is a good exercise. It may change the way you photograph.
 
Uhmm. thanks Ian. I thought you had already started a thread on this? Must be mistaken...

It strikes me as odd... As someone who loves photography... and hey, let's not kid ourselves, the gear, that people continue to inform me as to why this camera is not for them.

I knew the D800 was not for me from the get go. When people who had it posted- that informed me further, and I appreciated the information. I never felt the need to contribute to every thread discussing the D800 to let everyone know why the D800 wasn't for me. Strange. Or how Nikon had let me down? I just saw that a new camera was released, evaluated it and made a decision. I listened to further discussions which confirmed my decision.

I don't know that this is the facebook-ization of the boards? But for me I want to hear from people who have gear and what they think of it. Not people who don't because...

Anyway Ian, I had thought I thanked you once before... and wished you well. If not I do again.
Why are you always in these DF threads defending this camera ?. I don't understand the emotional attachment to these things, its just a plastic camera ? Shouldn't you ignore all this nonsense and enjoy "your" camera ?
Ummm... 'cause I own it. Thanks for your contribution.
 
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I deliberately only had the 24 and 35 with me when I went out for the day so I could try and adapt to primes.

The outcome was that I just couldn't get used to the primes, now I really wish I could but I have always been the sort of person who likes to compose tightly and therefore a zoom is more appropriate for me.

...

Maybe I should have perceviered more with the primes but I really don't think they would work for me.
Those of us who grew up with primes—zooms were not of sufficient quality at the time—learned a different way of looking for shots. You go out with a lens and you develop a sense of its field of view. Then you look for compositions that fit that FOV. IMO, that is a good way to work if you are just going out looking for interesting images.

By concentrating on a specific field of view, you mind can block out all other possibilities and you start seeing compositions you might have missed if your mind was looking for all possibilites (using a zoom).

I think the amazing compositions of Henri Cartier-Bresson show the benefits of removing options. For his personal shooting he just used a 50mm lens on a Leica 35mm rangefinder camera. Limiting himself to one focal length allowed him to refine his "eye" to a highly sophisticated level.

Going out with just one lens is a good exercise. It may change the way you photograph.
Yeah, I had the same experience. Grew up with a K100 and a 50 f1.8. Once I could get a decent 28 I got one and I don't think I ever took it off except in low light when I needed the f1.8.

To this day, I see the world most effectively through something in the 24-35 FOV, with 28 something of a sweet spot. And I love shooting with primes. I occasionally use a zoom for a specific application, but when I'm just out looking for images, I almost always stick to one prime, maybe two at most. A zoom is just too confusing - there are simply too many possibilities with any given shot to my mind to lock into anything. But if I go out with multiple primes, I don't switch back and forth between them - maybe one for part of a day, change of mood, and another for another part of the day. That's why the Nikon Coolpix A and Sony RX1 are about my two favorite cameras ever. But I'm moving to the Df so I can have some of those days with 24 and occasionally 20 as well. And sometimes go longer with the 50 or 85 for different applications - but those are not walk around focal lengths for me. I'll keep the Coolpix A for street shooting and for the evening out when I just want a pocket camera. But most of my non-street work will be with the Df.

To me, going out with one lens isn't a good exercise - it's a way of life...
-Ray
--------------------------------------
 
I deliberately only had the 24 and 35 with me when I went out for the day so I could try and adapt to primes.

The outcome was that I just couldn't get used to the primes, now I really wish I could but I have always been the sort of person who likes to compose tightly and therefore a zoom is more appropriate for me.

...

Maybe I should have perceviered more with the primes but I really don't think they would work for me.
Those of us who grew up with primes—zooms were not of sufficient quality at the time—learned a different way of looking for shots. You go out with a lens and you develop a sense of its field of view. Then you look for compositions that fit that FOV. IMO, that is a good way to work if you are just going out looking for interesting images.

By concentrating on a specific field of view, you mind can block out all other possibilities and you start seeing compositions you might have missed if your mind was looking for all possibilites (using a zoom).

I think the amazing compositions of Henri Cartier-Bresson show the benefits of removing options. For his personal shooting he just used a 50mm lens on a Leica 35mm rangefinder camera. Limiting himself to one focal length allowed him to refine his "eye" to a highly sophisticated level.

Going out with just one lens is a good exercise. It may change the way you photograph.
 
I have never used zooms very much at all. I was brought on using a Pentax H1A with a 50mm f1.4 lens starting in the late 60's. I do have a couple zooms but they mostly just sit and collect dust. My favorite focal length for landscape stuff is 25mm which remains on my camera 80 percent of the time when I travel.

I do not understand why a fast prime or zoom attached to the df would be a problem. My left hand is placed below the lens to support the lens and my right hand just guides the camera. I always support my lens by my hand when hand holding. My second camera is a d7100 and it poses no problem with any of my lenses including my Nikon 70-200 f4 or my Nikon 500 f4 vr lenses. I shoot the 70-200 off hand and the 500 is mounted on a tripod. To me personally supporting a camera by both hands without supporting any lens is not right for me.

Larry
 
I have never used zooms very much at all. I was brought on using a Pentax H1A with a 50mm f1.4 lens starting in the late 60's. I do have a couple zooms but they mostly just sit and collect dust. My favorite focal length for landscape stuff is 25mm which remains on my camera 80 percent of the time when I travel.

I do not understand why a fast prime or zoom attached to the df would be a problem. My left hand is placed below the lens to support the lens and my right hand just guides the camera. I always support my lens by my hand when hand holding. My second camera is a d7100 and it poses no problem with any of my lenses including my Nikon 70-200 f4 or my Nikon 500 f4 vr lenses. I shoot the 70-200 off hand and the 500 is mounted on a tripod. To me personally supporting a camera by both hands without supporting any lens is not right for me.

Larry
I shoot the 70-200 2.8 on the Df and don't really notice much of a difference as I hold the lens in left hand with any camera. Everyone talks about balance like they are walking on a high wire ore something...
 
Having had a DF about 4 weeks ago. I only had it a few days and decided to return it, mainly due to buyers remorse due to the cost, but mainly because I am a Zoom guy and have never really got to grips with primes.

I also felt the camera was difficult to grip and felt unbalanced as soon as you put anything like a heavy lens on it.

However after reading a very interesting blog from InTheMist I reconsidered and bought an open box DF wich was £550 off the original price.

I went on holiday with the DF and 24-85 - 24mm D - 35mm D and Tamron 70-300

During my holiday I took 950 images in which the subjects were limited due to it being a Sun Sea and Sand winter break.

I deliberately only had the 24 and 35 with me when I went out for the day so I could try and adapt to primes.

The outcome was that I just couldn't get used to the primes, now I really wish I could but I have always been the sort of person who likes to compose tightly and therefore a zoom is more appropriate for me.

Consequently I started to use the 24-85 and if stayed on for the rest of the holiday, and it produced some very nice images, but it's not the sharpest lens particularly wide open and at the edges. So I thought I may need to get the 24-70 f2.8 or at least 16-35 f4 but both are fairly heavy.

However in my opinion if you are going to put heavier zooms on the DF then you should at least have an option for a battery grip to get a better balance. looking at most of the reviews coming out they point to this camera with primes as being the best option.

Maybe I should have perceviered more with the primes but I really don't think they would work for me.

So I can return this camera as a part ex and loose £200 which I think is ok, I notice a couple have gone with 50mm lens on ebay for just £1700 and only with a couple of bids so I think this camera re-sell value won't be great.

I will post some images I took on holiday with the 24-85 as the IQ was good in the centre and the Tamron performed very well for the price.

I guess for me the zooms negate the real reason for buying the DF, that said some people will be happy to slap on a heavy lens and just live with it.

I guess I should have know fast glass means weight in terms of zooms , it's as simple as that!

what the DF did do, is make me more considered about the shot, ie you have no option but to be more deliberate with the settings as the ISO, exp comp and shutter speed settings are not as slick to set as on mainstream DSLR's, but then again most people know that before they buy.

The DF gives you a trip down memory lane but for me there were just too many sacrifices, or you could say I was just being lazy not using my feet to compose!!!!!

cheers

Ian
Primes are overrated. Light weight short zooms are the only way to go.
 
Primes are overrated. Light weight short zooms are the only way to go.
I read an article in, I think it was, Outdoor Photography, a couple of years ago. They decided to do an informal survey among their contributors, and there were certainly some big name landscape / wildlife photographers in the group. Every one of them used zooms; not primes. ( I would suspect excluding long telephotos )

I think primes are fine under controlled conditions - where you know exactly what you're going to shoot and / or what lens or two you need for what you're trying to accomplish. Other than that, primes are nothing but a nusiance. :-D

--
Photography - I do it for passion, not for a buck! It's just better that way.
 
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Having had a DF about 4 weeks ago. I only had it a few days and decided to return it, mainly due to buyers remorse due to the cost, but mainly because I am a Zoom guy and have never really got to grips with primes.

I also felt the camera was difficult to grip and felt unbalanced as soon as you put anything like a heavy lens on it.

However after reading a very interesting blog from InTheMist I reconsidered and bought an open box DF wich was £550 off the original price.

I went on holiday with the DF and 24-85 - 24mm D - 35mm D and Tamron 70-300

During my holiday I took 950 images in which the subjects were limited due to it being a Sun Sea and Sand winter break.

I deliberately only had the 24 and 35 with me when I went out for the day so I could try and adapt to primes.

The outcome was that I just couldn't get used to the primes, now I really wish I could but I have always been the sort of person who likes to compose tightly and therefore a zoom is more appropriate for me.

Consequently I started to use the 24-85 and if stayed on for the rest of the holiday, and it produced some very nice images, but it's not the sharpest lens particularly wide open and at the edges. So I thought I may need to get the 24-70 f2.8 or at least 16-35 f4 but both are fairly heavy.

However in my opinion if you are going to put heavier zooms on the DF then you should at least have an option for a battery grip to get a better balance. looking at most of the reviews coming out they point to this camera with primes as being the best option.

Maybe I should have perceviered more with the primes but I really don't think they would work for me.

So I can return this camera as a part ex and loose £200 which I think is ok, I notice a couple have gone with 50mm lens on ebay for just £1700 and only with a couple of bids so I think this camera re-sell value won't be great.

I will post some images I took on holiday with the 24-85 as the IQ was good in the centre and the Tamron performed very well for the price.

I guess for me the zooms negate the real reason for buying the DF, that said some people will be happy to slap on a heavy lens and just live with it.

I guess I should have know fast glass means weight in terms of zooms , it's as simple as that!

what the DF did do, is make me more considered about the shot, ie you have no option but to be more deliberate with the settings as the ISO, exp comp and shutter speed settings are not as slick to set as on mainstream DSLR's, but then again most people know that before they buy.

The DF gives you a trip down memory lane but for me there were just too many sacrifices, or you could say I was just being lazy not using my feet to compose!!!!!

cheers

Ian
Ian, this is all very valid. You owned and used the Df and it just wasn't right for you. 100% reasonable. I tend to use the D800 with grip on any large glass. The Df is neat and small, but only with my smaller primes. That's it's forte.

Have fun shooting!

Robert
 
Uhmm. thanks Ian. I thought you had already started a thread on this? Must be mistaken...

It strikes me as odd... As someone who loves photography... and hey, let's not kid ourselves, the gear, that people continue to inform me as to why this camera is not for them.

I knew the D800 was not for me from the get go. When people who had it posted- that informed me further, and I appreciated the information. I never felt the need to contribute to every thread discussing the D800 to let everyone know why the D800 wasn't for me. Strange. Or how Nikon had let me down? I just saw that a new camera was released, evaluated it and made a decision. I listened to further discussions which confirmed my decision.

I don't know that this is the facebook-ization of the boards? But for me I want to hear from people who have gear and what they think of it. Not people who don't because...

Anyway Ian, I had thought I thanked you once before... and wished you well. If not I do again.
Why are you always in these DF threads defending this camera ?. I don't understand the emotional attachment to these things, its just a plastic camera ? Shouldn't you ignore all this nonsense and enjoy "your" camera ?
In fairness, take a look at the OP and his posting history. This isn't really about the Df.

Secondly, if owning a camera isn't a good reason to be able to comment on it, we should all go home, not just Patrick.
 
Cradle the lens in your left hand. Your left fingertips work the focusing and zoom rings. The larger the lens, the more the left hand is involved in supporting its weight. Tiny prime lenses are only supported by the fingertips, or the body itself rests on the left palm, so the left fingertips can work the focusing ring. Each lens will have different handling characteristics. Abel has a tutorial on this at Pixtus.com .

I particularly like the Nikkor 180mm 2.8D, as it fits my left hand so well. Another one I want to acquire is the 35-70 2.8D, as it seems to fit me, and handle really well.

I do like a hand-filling right-hand grip, for night shooting, as my left hand will likely be occupied with accessories, such as a flashgun or hand-held LED light. On the other hand, no pun intended, daylight shooting allows the left hand to be the main support for the rig. If I buy a Df, I will attach a flash bracket for night shooting, and even own a classic old Stitz flash bracket, with grip, to complete the retro look.

In the USA, there is a craftsman who makes walnut grips for cameras such as the Olympus OM-D series, and several compacts. Amazon sells them. The principle is quite simple, so if he does not start to offer a grip for the Df, there should be craftsmen on your side of the pond who can duplicate the feat for the Df.
 
Cradle the lens in your left hand. Your left fingertips work the focusing and zoom rings. The larger the lens, the more the left hand is involved in supporting its weight. Tiny prime lenses are only supported by the fingertips, or the body itself rests on the left palm, so the left fingertips can work the focusing ring. Each lens will have different handling characteristics. Abel has a tutorial on this at Pixtus.com .

I particularly like the Nikkor 180mm 2.8D, as it fits my left hand so well. Another one I want to acquire is the 35-70 2.8D, as it seems to fit me, and handle really well.

I do like a hand-filling right-hand grip, for night shooting, as my left hand will likely be occupied with accessories, such as a flashgun or hand-held LED light. On the other hand, no pun intended, daylight shooting allows the left hand to be the main support for the rig. If I buy a Df, I will attach a flash bracket for night shooting, and even own a classic old Stitz flash bracket, with grip, to complete the retro look.
And then, he tried to change exposure compensation.
 

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