Going back to DSLR...

Cane said:

Cane said:

Looks like you made a bad choice, really, you should have known this system wasn't very good for sports, why did you waste your time to begin with?

I sold my 5D2 to move to Fuji and I would NEVER go back, EVER EVER, EVER!!! Image quality is definitely better than the 5D2 and there isn't much difference in the 5D2 image quality from the 6D and 5D3. But I knew going in that I rarely ever shoot moving subjects and studied the system enough to know that sports and such is not it's strong suit.

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Like most every Fuji shooter, slow deliberate sleeping turtle shooters that have the afternoon to get a shot and a sandwich.

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That's right, and the important part of it is that I know what kind of shooter I am and study the camera I am interested in to know if it matches my shooting style. In fact, I'm not sure how anyone could do even the most rudimentary reading on this system before you buy and NOT have the fact that it's not very good for sports literally pushed in your face, is it even possible? NO WAY the op could have even avoided this obvious aspect to the Fuji system.

Al Downie said:

MiWo said:

After the freshness wears out and you collect experience with the new gear there’ll always be something it lacks, is not good or could be better at. And you start thinking again…

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You may well be right, and that's why this time my main investment is in the best lenses I can afford. Unless Nikon make some drastic change that renders them incompatible with future bodies (!), I expect them to last, and continue to impress me, for many, many years. The D800 is also the best body I can afford just now, but I do expect that'll end up being replaced much sooner than the lenses. Maybe if the Df2 is more like a grown-up version of the X-T1...

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For the sake of my sanity I much support your undertaking!

I'm just saying 'been there, done that'. I had a healthy lens set for my Nikon DSLR back in the days, APS-C though, not FF. I had a great macro, I thought would be the light tele/portrait/close-up lens of choice. I had a great fast 50mm eq. I thought would be the ideal jack of all trades and my go to lens. I had a wonderful zoom for travels and convenience that covered all my needs, I thought. I even had a fast focusing tele zoom for nature and a wide zoom for street and architecture. The best glass I could afford and the best there was! …I thought.

Now it’s 5 years and 5 cameras later and I’m still looking for the holy grail ;-)

I’m afraid the same COULD happen to you. The 135mm F2 DC – if it’s not the DC function you’re after – will be probably superseded and bested by the rumored Sigma Art 135mm F1.8 or F2. The inevitable Sigma Art 85mm F1.4 will give Nikon’s counterpart a run for its money if Sigma’s last entries are any indication for the future. I don’t know who or what will combat the 16-35mm, but judging from reviews by Thom Hogan or Lenstip, even without a truly outstanding competitor you’ll find it a subpar match for the D800.

I don’t want to discourage you! I hope you’ll be more than happy with your new purchases! I hope they will last you as long as you plan for! And I hope you’ll be able to give up the chase for better gear in favor of pursuing better photography!

It’s just, I don’t believe anyone saying he/she bought new gear and is now sure the new stuff will put an end to his/hers ever returning gear lust. It’s not a breakthrough, contrary, for me it’s another step in the same and wrong direction. It’s the thinking that got me into GAS in the first place. Everyone was writing about how much better their pictures/experience/whatever have become because they bought X or switched to Y. I was too young and too foolish to not embrace that logic…

I think one of the most important steps a photographer can take forward is to stop talking through his gear and start talking trough his vision. That means grabbing whatever camera/lens one has and astonish the viewers with art. And this happens more often if one works on himself and not on what’s inside one’s gear bag.

It’s easier to arrive at this stage if you got talent, because it shines through no matter how bad the IQ of your camera is. Unfortunately I’ve got mostly passion but only a very limited amount of vision. Therefor it’s easier for me to say new gear is what I need to get better instead of admitting the obvious. In rare moments – like this – I do, but after shooting gazillions of frames next weekend I will surely blame my Fuji for the gazillion -1 pictures that lack everything and convince myself the one acceptable photo is the only true representative of my abilities! And of course even this one could be better with better gear

So you don’t get the wrong impression: I DON’T CRITISIZE YOU, I DARE YOU! Proof me wrong, come back in a year and tell us your D800 and 3 lenses still rock your photographic world, your pictures got better and there was and is nothing on offer from your favorite photo dealer that makes you grab for the credit card. I’ll be the first to bow my head and make you my rule model ;-)

Mike

Cane said:

Yes, let's make sure we are fan boys! Have to spin Fuji as positive always, for everyone.

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Well if that's the best you can do you really shouldn't have bothered Cane.

Which of my above statements is actually untrue?

Care to enlighten us all rather than indulge in childish and pathetic name calling?

Pat

Cane said:

Yes, let's make sure we are fan boys! Have to spin Fuji as positive always, for everyone.

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Fan boys go around saying their cameras aren't good at sports? Hmm, looks more like someone has an emotional problem with Fuji for some reason. Strange indeed.

Hi Al,

Best of luck with your new cam, I hope it works out well for you. If I had been you I probably would have kept the body, as you could have at least used them with an adapter on the Fuji "X". If I can ever get the money together I'd love to have a Fuji "X" and "S" cam to share responsibilities. There are still lots of occasions for using a DSLR, and you mentioned some of them, but the "X" has lots of appealing characteristics that can't be ignored, so having one of each would be the best of both worlds.

liquid stereo said:

I think your mistake was thinking/assuming/believing/suspecting that these mirror-less cameras can replace a DSLR for anything resembling sports, wildlife or telephoto shooting. They absolutely cannot. Not now. I'm not sure what all the full-frame nonsense is about.

The stability you speak of comes from knowing your photographic/imaging needs. Good luck with the D800.

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The Nikon V1 & V2 can do sports. In spades. It's AF is absolutely DSLR-class; not quite D4 or D800, but close. It's IQ is as good as a D200. For birding it's better because you can use Nikon F-mount glass with a 2.7 crop factor. It's weakness is high ISO IQ. It's not a PRO sports camera, but it's an excellent choice for most people.

If you want ONE system to do it all, you still need a DLSR. After I experienced the V1, I knew I no longer needed my D300 (which is outdated IQ-wise anyway) so I chose Fuji for portraits, landscapes, low light, b&w, and street. And I have the V1 for action and telephoto. And I don't have to lug around a DSLR anymore.

If you don't mind the size and weight, the D800 is one of the best cameras ever built.

Photography these days is part of the big consumer electronics market, like it or not. As such, people tend to think about cameras as disposable "stuff" that get obsolete as soon as it is launched. It is not easy to beat this tendency...

If you want to develop your photography, you need to buy a camera and one lens, and just learn it and use it for a prolonged period of time. Forget about the newer camera around the corner, just use what you have, take some courses, workshops, attend exhibits, read books from photographers whose work you admire, etc, etc.

These days, I have trimmed my photo gear to a bare minimum, and according to what I shoot: landscapes with the XE1 and 14mm lens; portraits and landscapes with XE1 and Voightlander 75 1.8 lens; and travel and people with the EOS 6D and 50 1.4 lens. This is what I am comfortable with.

Some of you may argue that the 6D is "too big and heavy", to which I respond: really?? I carry it in my shoulder bag, together with my laptop and bits and bobs. And IMO, the 6D is the best "travelling" DSLR, light, small, unobtrusive, GPS, Wi-Fi, simply perfect. Oh, and it is cheaper than the new XT1 wonder...

The best camera for anyone is always the one you are going to enjoy using and in fact do use.
Seems like you know what you want, best of luck with it.

Enjoy!

Well Fuji is quite the opposite of Canikon.

For years there are threads about a 7DmkII and D400.

They have different strategies I believe.

Where Fuji updates rather quick, your gear can depreciate fast but you have the choice to improve.

Canikon is rather slow, you can learn the gear and by the time something new comes out you at least had some time to save up for your next spending.

Both models seem to annoy a lot of people. In the first people don't seem to be able to keep up. The latter model makes people feel they are holding something back from them.

Al Downie said:

I also have a nagging feeling that, with Fuji, I'd become a consumer rather than a photographer. It sort-of feels like that niche of the market is still evolving too quickly, and I'll end up having (or wanting) to buy newer, better stuff all the time. Looking at Fuji forums, it seems that everyone cannot wait to replace this Fuji or that Fuji with the next Fuji, and I'm sure that there WILL be a full frame Fuji at some point, which will mean replacing all the lenses too. I can understand the attraction, but I need a bit of stability!

Al.

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Surely the solution to your GAS is a bit of self control rather than changing system? Nikon is slower is coming up with new cameras/lenses but surely they won't stand still with the D800.

I was a Canon shooter. When I had a APS-C 20D, I wanted a full frame and I bought a 5D mark III, then I was thinking may be I need a smaller body with a tilt screen so I can record video of myself. When I have the great 100mm macro, I wanted the 100m L macro with image stabiliser. When I have the 100m L macro, I wanted the 5:1 macro lens. When I had the 20mm wide angle prime, I wanted the 17-40mm f4 and then I wanted the 16-35mm f2.8...... I gave in to my GAS some of the time but not all the time, otherwise I would be dead broke.

The fact that Fuji is evolving fast doesn't mean we have to buy every new camera out there. We just need what fits our photographic needs. A lot of people are still using and enjoying their X-pro 1 which was released a while back.

Fuji is like Apple. There are some die hard fans who buy every new products, but there are also some apple users who are still using iPhone 3 and old mac.

Your other points are valid and I agree with them, but not sure about this one.

Cane said:

Cane said:

Looks like you made a bad choice, really, you should have known this system wasn't very good for sports, why did you waste your time to begin with?

I sold my 5D2 to move to Fuji and I would NEVER go back, EVER EVER, EVER!!! Image quality is definitely better than the 5D2 and there isn't much difference in the 5D2 image quality from the 6D and 5D3. But I knew going in that I rarely ever shoot moving subjects and studied the system enough to know that sports and such is not it's strong suit.

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Like most every Fuji shooter, slow deliberate sleeping turtle shooters that have the afternoon to get a shot and a sandwich.

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Basically the the opposite of someone who takes snap shots.

Not a bad thing if you ask me.

bavarius6 said:

The D800 and 3 lenses you just bought makes you feel like less of a consumer and more of a photographer?

How?

Pat

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Read his post. He states the reason quite clearly.

ketsang said:

Fuji is like Apple.

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Apple? The most profitable company in the world? I would not compare Fujfilm's cameras to Apple until they start turning a profit.

ketsang said:

There are some die hard fans who buy every new products, but there are also some apple users who are still using iPhone 3 and old mac.

Your other points are valid and I agree with them, but not sure about this one.

--
Ket Sang Tai

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Cane said:

Cane said:

Looks like you made a bad choice, really, you should have known this system wasn't very good for sports, why did you waste your time to begin with?

I sold my 5D2 to move to Fuji and I would NEVER go back, EVER EVER, EVER!!! Image quality is definitely better than the 5D2 and there isn't much difference in the 5D2 image quality from the 6D and 5D3. But I knew going in that I rarely ever shoot moving subjects and studied the system enough to know that sports and such is not it's strong suit.

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Like most every Fuji shooter, slow deliberate sleeping turtle shooters that have the afternoon to get a shot and a sandwich.

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I was in a park a few weeks ago, taking slow deliberate shots with varying aperture and slightly different compositions of the same scene, a couple of young guys toting identical Canon DSLRs strolled by (ignored me, btw, while I took passing interest in their cameras).

They stopped and one guy lifted his camera to his eye and zip-zip-zip took 9 or so continuous shots... of a park bench. I just thought "seriously?" and carried on with my slow, deliberate shots til I got what I wanted.

Al Downie said:

With mixed feelings, I've just returned the 60mm I bought from Amazon, and will be selling the X-E1, 35mm and 18-55mm - I'll be very sorry to let it go. It's been great fun to use, and the image quality is surprisingly good, as you all know.

I've just ordered a Nikon D800 and three Nikkors (85mm f1.4G, 135mm f2DC, 16-35mm f4G) and might buy the Sigma 50mm when it's released, if the price/performance is anything like their 35mm model.

I've surprised myself to be honest - after all my bleating about how disappointing the Df is, and all the excitement about the X-T1 which is without doubt the closest thing yet to the camera I've been longing for, in the end I've given up on the small sensor and gone full-frame with a conventional DSLR that offers NO traditional controls at all. Nuts.

I love the controls on the Fujis, and the light weight and portability. Love the image quality too, as far as it goes - I've loved shooting family portraits, landscapes, travel etc with the X-E1 (and the X100). Sadly though, the AF system is just not responsive enough to make the camera completely versatile, and there are no long prime lenses on the road map, so wildlife and sports (and even hyperactive toddler life) are pretty much excluded. I also have a nagging feeling that, with Fuji, I'd become a consumer rather than a photographer. It sort-of feels like that niche of the market is still evolving too quickly, and I'll end up having (or wanting) to buy newer, better stuff all the time. Looking at Fuji forums, it seems that everyone cannot wait to replace this Fuji or that Fuji with the next Fuji, and I'm sure that there WILL be a full frame Fuji at some point, which will mean replacing all the lenses too. I can understand the attraction, but I need a bit of stability!

I'm keeping the X100 for sure; it'll remain my little carry-around camera, but I'm *so* looking forward to being back on full-frame again, with an investment in great glass that will hopefully last 10-20yrs. The D800 should be good for at least 5 years too, I think.

Best of luck to you all - hope you continue to enjoy the Fuji journey!

Al.

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Funny thing is that I was in my local city yesterday for a meeting, so I stuck the x pro1 in a shoulder bag and had a walk around, there were some good images to be had but they all needed a quick reaction and I`m afraid I missed quite a lot of them. I just kept saying to my wife" I wish I had my 5d3 with me cos I would have nailed most of the shots" and the xpro isn`t actually that small really and did attract attention . It`s a superb camera but I find I need time to set things up and allow for the AF lag.

It`s horses for courses obviously but the xpro isn`t my ideal walk-about, maybe other peoples criteria is different. I`m glad I kept all my gear

57LowRider said:

57LowRider wrote: a couple of young guys toting identical Canon DSLRs strolled by (ignored me, btw, while I took passing interest in their cameras). They stopped and one guy lifted his camera to his eye and zip-zip-zip took 9 or so continuous shots... of a park bench. I just thought "seriously?" and carried on with my slow, deliberate shots til I got what I wanted.

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Luckily, I bought a Nikon.

liquid stereo said:

I think your mistake was thinking/assuming/believing/suspecting that these mirror-less cameras can replace a DSLR for anything resembling sports, wildlife or telephoto shooting. They absolutely cannot.

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Agree 100%.

Al Downie said:

Al Downie said:

57LowRider wrote: a couple of young guys toting identical Canon DSLRs strolled by (ignored me, btw, while I took passing interest in their cameras). They stopped and one guy lifted his camera to his eye and zip-zip-zip took 9 or so continuous shots... of a park bench. I just thought "seriously?" and carried on with my slow, deliberate shots til I got what I wanted.

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Luckily, I bought a Nikon.

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Hahaha! I was just thinking that I should have bought a Sony A7 and enjoyed the slow, deliberate process of figuring out which button did what

I am fortunate in that my work brings me into contact with a lot of pro shooters and I have access to a lot of gear.

A month ago I "acquired" a Canon 5D3 and a pair of 2.8 zooms. The owner is overseas in Africa and this is one of his back up rigs. I'm free to use it.

Having shot DSLR and SLR for 30 years, I was relishing spending some time with the gear.

But here's the thing -and this is entirely subjective and based solely on "what place we are in , in our lives" and of course the subjects we like to shoot, but I have quickly become bored of the sheer size and weight of it all.

I had forgotten what a pain to carry around these things are.

I had forgotten what it was like to be the "camera guy" that stands out in a crowd, with his big bag and foot long lens.

I don't really want to be the "camera guy" anymore. I'd rather just blend in and have a life, and take pictures as I am living my life. A hulking great camera gets in the way, somehow.

My shots are better when I am observing life, and happen to be carrying a camera. This is different to carrying a camera, and observing life, if you see what I mean.

But we are all different . YMMV.

Happy shooting.

Graham Hill said:

bavarius6 said:

The D800 and 3 lenses you just bought makes you feel like less of a consumer and more of a photographer?

How?

Pat

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Read his post. He states the reason quite clearly.

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Read my posts.

Clearly the irony of what is stated by the OP is beyond you too.

As I've said, if the D800 is the better camera for him, great. Personally I find these 'I'm leaving' posts beyond tedious but if they float your boat well enjoy!

Pat