Alpha 7 verses E-M1 or something else?

I'm always curious when people compare the EM1 to the A7 as to why those two cameras ? If a 4/3 sensor is good enough, then why not compare to any of the other APS-C mirrorless bodies around ? Why jump to FF ?
If Canon comes out with a replacement for the 7D or Nikon replaces the D300S or Sony replaces the Nex 7, then I think you will see more comparisons with those as they would target similar photographers. I assume the comparison with the Sony because they are both mirrorless. Unfortunately many of these comparisons are based on personal preferences and possibly "cognitive dissonance" and few individuals actually show photographs for others to reach their own conclusions. I always try to provide full resolution photographs for my statements when possible so that others can decide mage quality for themselves. Personally I would like to be able to have a Nikon D800 for landscapes and a crop sensor for wildlife (keeping the total weight to a reasonable amount for each type of photography), but we all have to decide which is more important.
 
If you take the A7 with any of its native lenses, you can find the EM1 and a similar native lens that makes a smaller package, costs less and gives you close to a stop or more light.
I added up the weights and they are nearly equal. (Body and equivalent 24-70-ish lenses) If you look at dimension and volume, the Sony is noticeably smaller. The value proposition of the Olympus was hit hard by the Sony.
What does this mean? If you check DxO the difference in DR is usually around only 1/2 a stop (at most ISOs) and for noise very close to that 1 stop difference (for most ISOs).
So when you do a comparison with native lenses, the EM1 is smaller, costs less, gives the same or better IQ according to DxO, gives you IS with every lens you put on it, focuses faster, and focuses more reliably in low light. The only win for the A7 is slightly less DoF, which often is not a good thing.
Gives good image quality if...you don't want to enlarge it after you potentially crop it. If you've seen what the Sony primes for the A7 are doing, you won't be as convinced. Just a consideration.

There is no comparison. The better value proposition in a 4/3 to me is the GX7. Lighter, smaller, superb optics, great image quality. I very nearly went this way...

I have a GX7 with 12mmf2, 45 1.8 and Oly kit lens.....plus adapters for Canon FD, Pentax K and Minolta MD. I LOVE this camera.

BUT...

I have a A7 with kit lens and Canon FD adapter and Pentax K adapter.

The GX7 pretty much just sits there as I grab the A7 almost every time now...and it grows on me more and more each day.

Yes the A7 has flaws (so does the GX7 and anything else if you look) but to me, the A7 is the best camera I have ever used (and I have used plenty).

The sensor is great, the EVF is light years better for me than the best brightest OVF (GX7 EVF is good too, just not as good other than it tilts)....A7 manual focus in really dim light is better than af in most cameras ...easy to use thanks to peaking and magnification and the horizon indicator.

The A7 is a camera you HAVE to try before buying (though you should for all), the EM1 is a very nice camera and if only using native af lenses and you want small size....is the one to go for (or GX7).....the A7 is just so much fun with great IQ (flaws and all).
 
If you take the A7 with any of its native lenses, you can find the EM1 and a similar native lens that makes a smaller package, costs less and gives you close to a stop or more light.
I added up the weights and they are nearly equal. (Body and equivalent 24-70-ish lenses)
You clearly made a mistake. Here is the comparison with 24-70mm lenses:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#487.393,482.336,ha,t
But whose lens? You're not comparing native lenses.
You are still very, very confused here. The lenses 12-35 is a native Micro Four thirds lens. The E-M1 has a Micro Four Thirds mount. I think you need to research what Micro Four Thirds is.
Nope, not confused. It was just natural to go fetch the closest Olympus. Even so, with the Panasonic lens, the weight advantage is small. And for my use, I'd rather have f/4 in full frame than 2.8 in u4/3 for the shallow DOF effect.
Don't forget, I can put a Panasonic on my A7 as well.
You are still confused. You cannot mount a Micro Four Thirds lens on the A7. The image circle far too small, and worse you cannot control aperture or focusing (the lens is focus by wire and turning the ring does nothing without proper electrical contacts).
Yes, I can. It won't be full frame, but it will most certainly make an image the equal of or better than the u/43.
Actually you are confused again. No one knows where that "overall" number comes from. You need to look at the exact measurements because we know what those mean. You can look at the ISO you want to use and tell what the measured DR will be, so we know what those numbers mean.
So you agree then that DxO states a 1.5 DR advantage to the A7? Just the increase in resolution alone starts to push the OM1 out.
So again, the smaller camera/lens... will yield the same or better IQ.
Nope, not true at all. And certainly not in this case. Even DxO confirms this.
It will also focus faster and more reliably. It can even focus better in low light and on moving objects. And as you are learning, it has more native lenses and more support for native lenses.
Certainly the OM has more native lenses. And if Autofocus speed in millisecond difference is what you need, the OM seems more mature.

My whole point here is that the weight/size advantage of Olympus is largely lost now.

- When you drop down from a 2-3 lb carry of the DSLR + 24-70, the final weight of 1.99 lbs vs. 1.77 lbs is now well in the noise. Yes, there is variation depending on prime lens or long telephoto. But this is still such an amazing place for full frame to be. I would have considered the OM or the GX7 had the A7 not been there.

- When you compare the two, the body of the A7 is smaller, but the overall package is slightly bigger. The Panasonic lens is 2.9x2.7" while the Sony is 2.87 x 3.72". Are you really saying that the final length of an extra one inch or whatever is significant enough to matter? Sure, long lenses might be a consideration, but is it worth it to shave one lb and 3 inches to get the lower image quality on your long zoom?

- Also consider that the glass we're seeing from Sony so far is quite a step superior to the Olympus and Panasonic. Admittedly, Panasonic has it right most of the time. If we start to see mid level lenses without the Zeiss stamp, I'm sure the price and weight will come down accordingly.

- Olympus is beat on image quality by many cameras out there and for sure by the A7 and A7r. It's really kind of silly to argue otherwise. It's hard for folks to accept that, but it's fairly clear. And anything u/43 can do, full frame can/will do better. I don't deny that the OM is superb - for it's size. It's now a very mature system. But it's capped. I doubt we'll see much better for a long time. In time, u/43 will decline. There's too much potential in larger sensors.

- Yes, you will pay $400 more for the A7, but you're getting more.

So what I'm saying is that the argument that the Olympus "is smaller and lighter with equal image quality and therefore a worthy compromise" is almost dead. Panasonic is getting it right - make a pocketable m/43.

What you get with the OM is a very mature - possibly the final iteration in u/43.

Isn't this wonderful? The OP wanted answers.
 
For those not familiar with the E-M1 or the Alpha 7:
  • E-M1: Micro 4/3 sensor. Largest electronic VF viewed image of any camera. I would buy it with the 12-40mm, constant F2.8 aperture, Pro lens. (camera + lens about $2398 but includes a small attachable flash)
  • Alpha 7: Full frame sensor! I think the viewed image in the EVF is a bit smaller than the image in the E-M1 because the magnification of the VF image in the Alpha 7 is less than in the E-M1. I would buy it with the kit lens, 28-70mm, F3.5-F5.6 OSS lens. (camera + lens about $1998. Does not include small attachable flash.)
... 1. What I'm not sure of is the light capturing ability of a "micro 4/3 sensor with constant F2.8 aperture lens" verses a "full frame sensor with a F3.5-F5.6 aperture lens". Can you help me out with this?
By the image below it is pretty clear that the A7 sensor is better than the tiny one in the E-M1. It just bests it in all measurements.

ee281387deac4379ad4f29ffb2022eb8.jpg.png

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp...ny-A7R-versus-Olympus-OM-D-E-M1___916_917_909
... 2. How good is the image from the Alpha 7 using it's 4x digital zoom? It's 28-70mm kit lens has only 2.5x zoom so I would need to use the additional 4x digital zoom for more reach. I don't like to change lenses so need the additional 4x digital zoom. (I only want input from Alpha 7 owners who use the 4x digital zoom. I don't want to dilute this thread with why digital zoom is not good from non Alpha 7 owners. Thanks.)
You will have loss in detail, as with all digital zooms, so it will mostly depends on what you think it is acceptable. But having 24mp for sure compensates on that end. 16mp sensors are a bit too long in the tooth already so if you are looking for something like that the A7 is clearly better here as well.
... 3. Any other suggestions for an APS-C camera that has a large electronic viewfinder and electronic first curtain shutter that can compare to the Alpha 7 with kit lens?
Check the a65. :)


don't give up on 16meg sensors just yet.

--
Pentax K7, Panasonic fz150, Olympus XZ1, my main toys.
Which one looks better to you?
 
For those not familiar with the E-M1 or the Alpha 7:
  • E-M1: Micro 4/3 sensor. Largest electronic VF viewed image of any camera. I would buy it with the 12-40mm, constant F2.8 aperture, Pro lens. (camera + lens about $2398 but includes a small attachable flash)
  • Alpha 7: Full frame sensor! I think the viewed image in the EVF is a bit smaller than the image in the E-M1 because the magnification of the VF image in the Alpha 7 is less than in the E-M1. I would buy it with the kit lens, 28-70mm, F3.5-F5.6 OSS lens. (camera + lens about $1998. Does not include small attachable flash.)
... 1. What I'm not sure of is the light capturing ability of a "micro 4/3 sensor with constant F2.8 aperture lens" verses a "full frame sensor with a F3.5-F5.6 aperture lens". Can you help me out with this?
By the image below it is pretty clear that the A7 sensor is better than the tiny one in the E-M1. It just bests it in all measurements.
Newbies often look at the "overall" DxO scores but don't know how to look at the actual measurements for various ISOs. The overall score is pretty arbitrary and means nothing if you are talking about shoot at ISOs 200-6400. Since the EM1 native lenses give you a 1+ stop advantage (and IS with the primes), DxO measurements show the EM1 will be superior for DR and almost identical for noise (with primes and IS the EM1 pulls far ahead).
My A7 is better for DR, resolution and noise than either my EM5 or GH3 when shot at equal settings.
Obviously. The problem is the A7 native lenses besides being very expensive have smaller apertures. You can always find a similar M43 lens that is a full stop or more faster...and that costs less. Once you take that into account the tables turn and the E-M1 is better for DR and often noise. The overall package is smaller too, and because of the IBIS can do a lot more. Of course there are to few Sony FE lenses, which is very limiting (as is manual focusing).

If all you care about is resolution then the D800E or A7R are good, but all the Nikon D4 owners live with only 12MP.
The D4 is 16MP.
Like the EM1.
As for the native Zeiss FE 55 f/1.8 there is no M4/3's lens that will provide the same quality. It has extremely high resolution as well as being excellent overall. Even my much loved PanaLeica 25mm f/1.4 is not as good.
Checking SLRGear I see the the 25mm F/1.4 is sharper wide open according to their blur index. This makes sense since the A7/R have issues with corner sharpness and vignetting. Both are superb lenses and in real life you are not going to see anything noticeably different (except maybe that vignetting).
No issues with corners on the A7.

Since the A7 with Nikon glass is notably better than the EM5 with native glass I am sure the Zeiss 55mm f/1.8 is better as well.

Of course, I could always put Zeiss glass for Nikon or Canon on the A7, or my Leica M glass, or the excellent Sigma Art 50mm lens due out soon, and so on.

Now here is the interesting part, the Sony lens costs over $500 more right now. The other important variable is the Panasonic is much smaller retaining the portable package that people owning mirrorless cameras are looking for. If size and cost don't matter get the 800E which is vastly more functional than the A7R. Both are going to give you more resolution than the E-M1, but unless you print at 20x30 inches do you need it?
My A7 with Nikon glass is still a lot smaller than my D800. Also, the A7 is far easier to MF.
As I said above, if you go with the A7 and a few native lenses you are talking about a $4000-$5000 investment. The A7R will be even more. Most people would rather pay a few thousand less, get a smaller package, get almost identical image quality and a get camera that does not have issues focusing.
If you really want to save, go for an entry level Nikon or Canon FF camera and buy the low cost f/1.8 lenses. Your IQ will still be sky high and the costs will be less than most M4/3's systems.

There are so many choices that each person needs to make their own choice based on what works best for them.

The A7 will, without question, deliver better IQ than the M4/3's systems. But, for some circumstances the M4/3's is a better choice based on the individual photographers needs.

-Bill
 
If you take the A7 with any of its native lenses, you can find the EM1 and a similar native lens that makes a smaller package, costs less and gives you close to a stop or more light.
I added up the weights and they are nearly equal. (Body and equivalent 24-70-ish lenses)
You clearly made a mistake. Here is the comparison with 24-70mm lenses:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#487.393,482.336,ha,t
But whose lens? You're not comparing native lenses.
You are still very, very confused here. The lenses 12-35 is a native Micro Four thirds lens. The E-M1 has a Micro Four Thirds mount. I think you need to research what Micro Four Thirds is.
Nope, not confused. It was just natural to go fetch the closest Olympus. Even so, with the Panasonic lens, the weight advantage is small. And for my use, I'd rather have f/4 in full frame than 2.8 in u4/3 for the shallow DOF effect.
Right there is a size and weight advantage for the EM1. Also, unless you are really close-up you won't see too shallow a DoF with a FF 24mm lens at F/4. It gets better at 70mm, but any M43 camera with the 45mm F/1.8 will do better. .
Don't forget, I can put a Panasonic on my A7 as well.
You are still confused. You cannot mount a Micro Four Thirds lens on the A7. The image circle far too small, and worse you cannot control aperture or focusing (the lens is focus by wire and turning the ring does nothing without proper electrical contacts).
Yes, I can. It won't be full frame, but it will most certainly make an image the equal of or better than the u/43.
Again, you can't open the aperture or even focus so good luck. Also, as we already know if you crop an image from the A7 to equal the M43 sensor, it will not be as good because the A7 sensor is NOT 2 stops better. You will also end up with much MP image than the M43 image.
Actually you are confused again. No one knows where that "overall" number comes from. You need to look at the exact measurements because we know what those mean. You can look at the ISO you want to use and tell what the measured DR will be, so we know what those numbers mean.
So you agree then that DxO states a 1.5 DR advantage to the A7? Just the increase in resolution alone starts to push the OM1 out.
You don't seem to get it. DR will vary for different ISOs. For example, at a measured ISO of 590 (not what the camera claims) the A7 is rated at 11.7EV and to match that EV the EM1 would need a measured ISO of about 400. That is about 1/2 stop difference.

Now DxO normalizes everything for resolution. If you don't those numbers change and at ISO400 both the Em1 and A7 have the same measured DR of about 11.3EV. If you want that increased resolution the DR advantage disappears completely. Then if you add the 1 stop for the better lenses the EM1 pulls far ahead.
So again, the smaller camera/lens... will yield the same or better IQ.
Nope, not true at all. And certainly not in this case. Even DxO confirms this.
You are not looking at actual measurements for each ISO.
It will also focus faster and more reliably. It can even focus better in low light and on moving objects. And as you are learning, it has more native lenses and more support for native lenses.
Certainly the OM has more native lenses. And if Autofocus speed in millisecond difference is what you need, the OM seems more mature.
In doors the focus time difference can be seconds. Also, if anything is moving only the EM1 will be able to focus on the subject.
My whole point here is that the weight/size advantage of Olympus is largely lost now.
If that is you sole concern, get the GM1. Still there is a huge difference. Looking at the size of the FE 70-200 F/4 lens show us that. We are talking twice the size.
...to get the lower image quality on your long zoom?
Since the M43 zoom has a wider aperture you won't get lower IQ. Also, it will be extremely difficult to focus on anything moving with that big A7 lens.
Also consider that the glass we're seeing from Sony so far is quite a step superior to the Olympus and Panasonic.
Huh? The A7 kit lens is not very good. The Panasonic 25mm F/1.4 is sharper wide open than the Sony 55mm lens that costs over $500 more. None of the Sony lenses can compare to the less expensive 75mm F/1.8.

Good luck though. I hope at least you learned what "Focus by wire" means and that you need to look at the actual DxO measurements.
 
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The Panasonic 25mm F/1.4 is sharper wide open than the Sony 55mm lens that costs over $500 more.
There is no data to support this statement.

SLRgear says "Because of the relative nature of the DxO blur measurements, you can't directly equate results obtained on different camera platforms."
None of the Sony lenses can compare to the less expensive 75mm F/1.8.
My Olympus 75 f/1.8 is one of my favorite lenses. I have taken some exceptional images with it.

I would say the Sony Zeiss 135 f/1.8 is comparable. It will work with AF on the A7.

The Zeiss 135 f/2 may even be superior. It is a MF lens and will work well on the A7.

-Bill
 
For those not familiar with the E-M1 or the Alpha 7:
  • E-M1: Micro 4/3 sensor. Largest electronic VF viewed image of any camera. I would buy it with the 12-40mm, constant F2.8 aperture, Pro lens. (camera + lens about $2398 but includes a small attachable flash)
  • Alpha 7: Full frame sensor! I think the viewed image in the EVF is a bit smaller than the image in the E-M1 because the magnification of the VF image in the Alpha 7 is less than in the E-M1. I would buy it with the kit lens, 28-70mm, F3.5-F5.6 OSS lens. (camera + lens about $1998. Does not include small attachable flash.)
... 1. What I'm not sure of is the light capturing ability of a "micro 4/3 sensor with constant F2.8 aperture lens" verses a "full frame sensor with a F3.5-F5.6 aperture lens". Can you help me out with this?
By the image below it is pretty clear that the A7 sensor is better than the tiny one in the E-M1. It just bests it in all measurements.
Newbies often look at the "overall" DxO scores but don't know how to look at the actual measurements for various ISOs. The overall score is pretty arbitrary and means nothing if you are talking about shoot at ISOs 200-6400. Since the EM1 native lenses give you a 1+ stop advantage (and IS with the primes), DxO measurements show the EM1 will be superior for DR and almost identical for noise (with primes and IS the EM1 pulls far ahead).
Lenses have nothing to do with dynamic range and noise. Dynamic range is a function of sensor noise and well capacity and is independent of lenses.
 
The Panasonic 25mm F/1.4 is sharper wide open than the Sony 55mm lens that costs over $500 more.
There is no data to support this statement.

SLRgear says "Because of the relative nature of the DxO blur measurements, you can't directly equate results obtained on different camera platforms."
OK, and I have seen nothing to say the 55mm is better too. The 55mm does cost over $500 more.
None of the Sony lenses can compare to the less expensive 75mm F/1.8.
My Olympus 75 f/1.8 is one of my favorite lenses. I have taken some exceptional images with it.

I would say the Sony Zeiss 135 f/1.8 is comparable. It will work with AF on the A7.

The Zeiss 135 f/2 may even be superior. It is a MF lens and will work well on the A7.

-Bill
Is that the $2100 Zeiss lens? I am sure it is a great lens, and those willing to pay $4000 for camera and lens that can only manually focus will be well rewarded.
 
For those not familiar with the E-M1 or the Alpha 7:
  • E-M1: Micro 4/3 sensor. Largest electronic VF viewed image of any camera. I would buy it with the 12-40mm, constant F2.8 aperture, Pro lens. (camera + lens about $2398 but includes a small attachable flash)
  • Alpha 7: Full frame sensor! I think the viewed image in the EVF is a bit smaller than the image in the E-M1 because the magnification of the VF image in the Alpha 7 is less than in the E-M1. I would buy it with the kit lens, 28-70mm, F3.5-F5.6 OSS lens. (camera + lens about $1998. Does not include small attachable flash.)
... 1. What I'm not sure of is the light capturing ability of a "micro 4/3 sensor with constant F2.8 aperture lens" verses a "full frame sensor with a F3.5-F5.6 aperture lens". Can you help me out with this?
By the image below it is pretty clear that the A7 sensor is better than the tiny one in the E-M1. It just bests it in all measurements.
Newbies often look at the "overall" DxO scores but don't know how to look at the actual measurements for various ISOs. The overall score is pretty arbitrary and means nothing if you are talking about shoot at ISOs 200-6400. Since the EM1 native lenses give you a 1+ stop advantage (and IS with the primes), DxO measurements show the EM1 will be superior for DR and almost identical for noise (with primes and IS the EM1 pulls far ahead).
My A7 is better for DR, resolution and noise than either my EM5 or GH3 when shot at equal settings.
Obviously. The problem is the A7 native lenses besides being very expensive have smaller apertures. You can always find a similar M43 lens that is a full stop or more faster...and that costs less. Once you take that into account the tables turn and the E-M1 is better for DR and often noise. The overall package is smaller too, and because of the IBIS can do a lot more. Of course there are to few Sony FE lenses, which is very limiting (as is manual focusing).

If all you care about is resolution then the D800E or A7R are good, but all the Nikon D4 owners live with only 12MP.
The D4 is 16MP.
Like the EM1.
As for the native Zeiss FE 55 f/1.8 there is no M4/3's lens that will provide the same quality. It has extremely high resolution as well as being excellent overall. Even my much loved PanaLeica 25mm f/1.4 is not as good.
Checking SLRGear I see the the 25mm F/1.4 is sharper wide open according to their blur index. This makes sense since the A7/R have issues with corner sharpness and vignetting. Both are superb lenses and in real life you are not going to see anything noticeably different (except maybe that vignetting).
No issues with corners on the A7.

Since the A7 with Nikon glass is notably better than the EM5 with native glass I am sure the Zeiss 55mm f/1.8 is better as well.
Which lenses are you taking about? What Nikon lens is "notably better" than the Olympus 75mm, and is it stabilized? How much does it cost. In your other thread you mention $2000 lenses and if that is your point, fine. Most people are not willing to pay $4000 for a camera and manual focus lens.
Of course, I could always put Zeiss glass for Nikon or Canon on the A7, or my Leica M glass, or the excellent Sigma Art 50mm lens due out soon, and so on.
Right, you are talking about creating a package of camera and a few lenses for $6000+. Again, most people want to pay less and have a camera that can focus. They suffer the fact that on 20x30 prints you might see a difference.
Now here is the interesting part, the Sony lens costs over $500 more right now. The other important variable is the Panasonic is much smaller retaining the portable package that people owning mirrorless cameras are looking for. If size and cost don't matter get the 800E which is vastly more functional than the A7R. Both are going to give you more resolution than the E-M1, but unless you print at 20x30 inches do you need it?
My A7 with Nikon glass is still a lot smaller than my D800. Also, the A7 is far easier to MF.
And the D800 can actually auto focus! Welcome to the 1980s! In fact, the D800 can focus on kids, pets, cars, people, and everything that moves! Very few people can do that MF lenses (but yes some can and more power to them).
As I said above, if you go with the A7 and a few native lenses you are talking about a $4000-$5000 investment. The A7R will be even more. Most people would rather pay a few thousand less, get a smaller package, get almost identical image quality and a get camera that does not have issues focusing.
If you really want to save, go for an entry level Nikon or Canon FF camera and buy the low cost f/1.8 lenses. Your IQ will still be sky high and the costs will be less than most M4/3's systems.

There are so many choices that each person needs to make their own choice based on what works best for them.

The A7 will, without question, deliver better IQ than the M4/3's systems.
Sure the A7 potentially will deliver better IQ. It will never focus anywhere near as well unless you pay extra for an adapter that blocks 1/3rd the light and really increases the size.

The A7 is a niche product for the few people than afford it and who don't mind manually focusing. As I said they will be rewarded.
 
You can always find a similar M43 lens that is a full stop or more faster...and that costs less.
I can also find legacy lenses that are even faster and cost even less. Isn't choice a good thing?
 
For those not familiar with the E-M1 or the Alpha 7:
  • E-M1: Micro 4/3 sensor. Largest electronic VF viewed image of any camera. I would buy it with the 12-40mm, constant F2.8 aperture, Pro lens. (camera + lens about $2398 but includes a small attachable flash)
  • Alpha 7: Full frame sensor! I think the viewed image in the EVF is a bit smaller than the image in the E-M1 because the magnification of the VF image in the Alpha 7 is less than in the E-M1. I would buy it with the kit lens, 28-70mm, F3.5-F5.6 OSS lens. (camera + lens about $1998. Does not include small attachable flash.)
... 1. What I'm not sure of is the light capturing ability of a "micro 4/3 sensor with constant F2.8 aperture lens" verses a "full frame sensor with a F3.5-F5.6 aperture lens". Can you help me out with this?
By the image below it is pretty clear that the A7 sensor is better than the tiny one in the E-M1. It just bests it in all measurements.
Newbies often look at the "overall" DxO scores but don't know how to look at the actual measurements for various ISOs. The overall score is pretty arbitrary and means nothing if you are talking about shoot at ISOs 200-6400. Since the EM1 native lenses give you a 1+ stop advantage (and IS with the primes), DxO measurements show the EM1 will be superior for DR and almost identical for noise (with primes and IS the EM1 pulls far ahead).
Lenses have nothing to do with dynamic range and noise. Dynamic range is a function of sensor noise and well capacity and is independent of lenses.
Really? So if you put a F/1.8 lens on a camera and take a picture at night with no flash at 1/60th shutter speed, the DR will be the same as with an F/5.6 lens? Are you starting to understand?

Just so you know DR will vary with what ISO you use. Lower ISO usually means more DR. Lens with wider aperture that lets you use a lower ISO means more DR.
 
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Really? So if you put a F/1.8 lens on a camera and take a picture at night with no flash at 1/60th shutter speed, the DR will be the same as with an F/5.6 lens?
I think you are confused, since it will be the same if both lenses were set to the same aperture (you didn't specify). And if you wanted the same exposure for different apertures, you should have adjusted the shutter speed accordingly. It's night, so you are are shooting on a tripod? Or indoors?
 
If you take the A7 with any of its native lenses, you can find the EM1 and a similar native lens that makes a smaller package, costs less and gives you close to a stop or more light.
I added up the weights and they are nearly equal. (Body and equivalent 24-70-ish lenses)
You clearly made a mistake. Here is the comparison with 24-70mm lenses:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#487.393,482.336,ha,t
But whose lens? You're not comparing native lenses.
You are still very, very confused here. The lenses 12-35 is a native Micro Four thirds lens. The E-M1 has a Micro Four Thirds mount. I think you need to research what Micro Four Thirds is.
Nope, not confused. It was just natural to go fetch the closest Olympus. Even so, with the Panasonic lens, the weight advantage is small. And for my use, I'd rather have f/4 in full frame than 2.8 in u4/3 for the shallow DOF effect.
Right there is a size and weight advantage for the EM1. Also, unless you are really close-up you won't see too shallow a DoF with a FF 24mm lens at F/4. It gets better at 70mm, but any M43 camera with the 45mm F/1.8 will do better. .
Don't forget, I can put a Panasonic on my A7 as well.
You are still confused. You cannot mount a Micro Four Thirds lens on the A7. The image circle far too small, and worse you cannot control aperture or focusing (the lens is focus by wire and turning the ring does nothing without proper electrical contacts).
Yes, I can. It won't be full frame, but it will most certainly make an image the equal of or better than the u/43.
Again, you can't open the aperture or even focus so good luck.
? Are you a youngster? Don't know how to manually focus?
Also, as we already know if you crop an image from the A7 to equal the M43 sensor, it will not be as good because the A7 sensor is NOT 2 stops better. You will also end up with much MP image than the M43 image.
2 stops? Is that all you can discuss?
Actually you are confused again. No one knows where that "overall" number comes from. You need to look at the exact measurements because we know what those mean. You can look at the ISO you want to use and tell what the measured DR will be, so we know what those numbers mean.
So you agree then that DxO states a 1.5 DR advantage to the A7? Just the increase in resolution alone starts to push the OM1 out.
You don't seem to get it. DR will vary for different ISOs. For example, at a measured ISO of 590 (not what the camera claims) the A7 is rated at 11.7EV and to match that EV the EM1 would need a measured ISO of about 400. That is about 1/2 stop difference.
Not buying DxO. Sensorgen - that's where to look. Until it's there, I don't even care.
Now DxO normalizes everything for resolution. If you don't those numbers change and at ISO400
That's where they go wrong. I don't agree with their numbers or their apparent methodology.
both the Em1 and A7 have the same measured DR of about 11.3EV. If you want that increased resolution the DR advantage disappears completely. Then if you add the 1 stop for the better lenses the EM1 pulls far ahead.
One stop of what? DR? Lenses have no impact on DR.
So again, the smaller camera/lens... will yield the same or better IQ.
Nope, not true at all. And certainly not in this case. Even DxO confirms this.
You are not looking at actual measurements for each ISO.
It will also focus faster and more reliably. It can even focus better in low light and on moving objects. And as you are learning, it has more native lenses and more support for native lenses.
Certainly the OM has more native lenses. And if Autofocus speed in millisecond difference is what you need, the OM seems more mature.
In doors the focus time difference can be seconds. Also, if anything is moving only the EM1 will be able to focus on the subject.
My whole point here is that the weight/size advantage of Olympus is largely lost now.
If that is you sole concern, get the GM1. Still there is a huge difference. Looking at the size of the FE 70-200 F/4 lens show us that. We are talking twice the size.
...to get the lower image quality on your long zoom?
Since the M43 zoom has a wider aperture you won't get lower IQ. Also, it will be extremely difficult to focus on anything moving with that big A7 lens.
Also consider that the glass we're seeing from Sony so far is quite a step superior to the Olympus and Panasonic.
Huh? The A7 kit lens is not very good. The Panasonic 25mm F/1.4 is sharper wide open than the
Sharp lenses are a dime a dozen. Look at all the other aspects. Zeiss are a step or more above most everything else - all the other parameters that make for excellent images are well under control. (Not 100% of the time mind you...) That Panasonic has issues of various kinds until you stop down to f/4. Sharpness is good by 2.8, but by that time, other lenses have caught up. I'd put the Sony ZA 55 1.8 against that Panasonic any day. That being said, it's one of the best you can get for your OM, nothing to be ashamed of.
Sony 55mm lens that costs over $500 more. None of the Sony lenses can compare to the less expensive 75mm F/1.8.
The kit lens - true. But the 55 Zeiss ZA is well worth it. No other lens in it's class of performance really comes close. Sharpness? I don't know, I'm looking at more than just sharpness. Every parameter is well controlled. You can't touch this performance for this price.
Good luck though. I hope at least you learned what "Focus by wire" means and that you need to look at the actual DxO measurements.
I don't because I don't agree with/believe/use DxO. I only brought it up because you're a dxofanboy. I think their data is rather useless and somehow biased. Case in point was the Nikon 18-35 that came out last year. They gave it glowing reviews - low CAs, edge to edge sharp, low distortion etc. Fact is, it's quite sloppy and poor performing. I don't know what they're thinking.

In the end, it's always fun to rile up a fanboy.
 
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The Panasonic 25mm F/1.4 is sharper wide open than the Sony 55mm lens that costs over $500 more.
There is no data to support this statement.

SLRgear says "Because of the relative nature of the DxO blur measurements, you can't directly equate results obtained on different camera platforms."
None of the Sony lenses can compare to the less expensive 75mm F/1.8.
My Olympus 75 f/1.8 is one of my favorite lenses. I have taken some exceptional images with it.

I would say the Sony Zeiss 135 f/1.8 is comparable. It will work with AF on the A7.
Yes, it's excellent. I would say a far superior peformer.
The Zeiss 135 f/2 may even be superior. It is a MF lens and will work well on the A7.
Agree! That one has performance that's hard to find in any 135mm.
 
For those not familiar with the E-M1 or the Alpha 7:
  • E-M1: Micro 4/3 sensor. Largest electronic VF viewed image of any camera. I would buy it with the 12-40mm, constant F2.8 aperture, Pro lens. (camera + lens about $2398 but includes a small attachable flash)
  • Alpha 7: Full frame sensor! I think the viewed image in the EVF is a bit smaller than the image in the E-M1 because the magnification of the VF image in the Alpha 7 is less than in the E-M1. I would buy it with the kit lens, 28-70mm, F3.5-F5.6 OSS lens. (camera + lens about $1998. Does not include small attachable flash.)
... 1. What I'm not sure of is the light capturing ability of a "micro 4/3 sensor with constant F2.8 aperture lens" verses a "full frame sensor with a F3.5-F5.6 aperture lens". Can you help me out with this?
By the image below it is pretty clear that the A7 sensor is better than the tiny one in the E-M1. It just bests it in all measurements.
Newbies often look at the "overall" DxO scores but don't know how to look at the actual measurements for various ISOs. The overall score is pretty arbitrary and means nothing if you are talking about shoot at ISOs 200-6400. Since the EM1 native lenses give you a 1+ stop advantage (and IS with the primes), DxO measurements show the EM1 will be superior for DR and almost identical for noise (with primes and IS the EM1 pulls far ahead).
Lenses have nothing to do with dynamic range and noise. Dynamic range is a function of sensor noise and well capacity and is independent of lenses.
Really? So if you put a F/1.8 lens on a camera and take a picture at night with no flash at 1/60th shutter speed, the DR will be the same as with an F/5.6 lens? Are you starting to understand?
The DR of a camera is independent of the lens you put on it. Period. You can fashion all kind of ideas that bring out this DR or that DR, but in the end, DR is purely a function of well capacity and read noise.
Just so you know DR will vary with what ISO you use. Lower ISO usually means more DR.
Sure, I know that.
Lens with wider aperture that lets you use a lower ISO means more DR.
No, it means you have to have a different exposure to get the DR your camera has to offer. DR is a parameter of your camera mate.
 
Really? So if you put a F/1.8 lens on a camera and take a picture at night with no flash at 1/60th shutter speed, the DR will be the same as with an F/5.6 lens?
I think you are confused, since it will be the same if both lenses were set to the same aperture (you didn't specify).
So now you don't know what F/1.8 and F/5.6 mean? Most would say I did specify aperture. :D

Even above I specifically mentioned lenses that had a 1 stop difference in aperture.
 

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