Sony selling snake oil (lenses) for A7r

I just spoke with a Sony representative. He rather haughtily informed me that Sony doesn't support OSS on any lens not sold as an FE lens when used with an A7r. When I pointed out that nearly every lens referenced from the A7r "compatibility" page has a description which includes OSS (checked 10 minutes ago - no disclaimer), he said that was just a "minor web detail". :-x I think it's fraud, since they are well aware that it's wrong but aren't interested in changing it.

So, folks, don't expect your lenses to work properly on an A7r and don't expect support from Sony. Or truth in advertising, either. I'm seriously considering sending the A7r back, since there is no telephoto lens available (that works off a tripod). The 55-210 is so slow that to get sharp shots I'd have to use high ISO all the time, hand held. I'm handicapped and not physically very stable, so YMMV. I need the OSS. For what it's worth, I believe OSS does work on my 10-18 (of course I don't need it there). YMMV, again.

Did you see any statement from Sony as to the compatibility with E lenses extending to guaranteeing OSS, or did you just see OSS equipped lenses included in the "compatible" list which you assume must mean compatible in every way?

It would be understandable if, when making FF cameras based on existing E-mount, that there might be some minor incompatibilities--at least initially. After all, those lenses were not designed for full-frame sensors. And it's great that Sony even gives you a choice as to whether to use the lens in the safer "crop" mode, or just get as much coverage out of the lens as you can, which in the case of the 10-18 seems like a pretty good deal. There are other grown-up type choices I would prefer to be allowed to make for myself with my camera where Sony won't let me.

They might actually get around to fixing this, or they might think you've got enough compatibility with E lenses without the OSS.

This is the prose from the 55-210 page linked to from the A7r page:

"This 3.8x zoom lens gives you consistently outstanding optical performance all the way. Optical SteadyShot™ image stabilization is a huge advantage when shooting in low light or capturing video."

That's the complete text from the page. To me, that says you get OSS. Sony explicitly said no update planned, in effect, tough. That's false advertising.

James Sherman said:

This is the prose from the 55-210 page linked to from the A7r page:

"This 3.8x zoom lens gives you consistently outstanding optical performance all the way. Optical SteadyShot™ image stabilization is a huge advantage when shooting in low light or capturing video."

That's the complete text from the page. To me, that says you get OSS. Sony explicitly said no update planned, in effect, tough. That's false advertising.

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Whom exactly at Sony told you that non FE E-mount lenses would not be stabilized on the A7r. Have you tried any to see if they were stabilized?

No, I would say that is a standard oversight. That page was created to describe the lens and its behavior on an E-mount/APS-C camera. Then later, Sony says, you can use E-mount lenses, and links to their descriptions. Those descriptions simply were not universally scrutinized and subsequently edited to document limitations using the lens on a camera that was released much later.

"Compatibility" often includes some sort of limitation. I wouldn't call this fraudulent, I'd just say Sony didn't overhaul all their old literature to include disclaimers about new FF cameras for which these lenses were not originally designed.

I don't defend Sony on everything. I've complained a lot on dpreview about actual fraudulent claims they made to accompany new cameras on release which are totally false.

James Sherman said:

I just spoke with a Sony representative. He rather haughtily informed me that Sony doesn't support OSS on any lens not sold as an FE lens when used with an A7r. When I pointed out that nearly every lens referenced from the A7r "compatibility" page has a description which includes OSS (checked 10 minutes ago - no disclaimer), he said that was just a "minor web detail". :-x I think it's fraud, since they are well aware that it's wrong but aren't interested in changing it.

So, folks, don't expect your lenses to work properly on an A7r and don't expect support from Sony. Or truth in advertising, either. I'm seriously considering sending the A7r back, since there is no telephoto lens available (that works off a tripod). The 55-210 is so slow that to get sharp shots I'd have to use high ISO all the time, hand held. I'm handicapped and not physically very stable, so YMMV. I need the OSS. For what it's worth, I believe OSS does work on my 10-18 (of course I don't need it there). YMMV, again.

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Sony did state which of the E-Mount lenses would not have OSS support - see following thread:


OSS appears to work on my A7R with SEL50f1.8 & SEL18-200 (original version, not LE), but it doesn't work on my kit 18-55. I doubt I'll ever use these lenses on my A7R, other than possibly an occasional video, but guess its good to know which lenses support OSS on the A7(R) cameras.

David

Wally626 said:

Whom exactly at Sony told you that non FE E-mount lenses would not be stabilized on the A7r. Have you tried any to see if they were stabilized?

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It seems fairly reasonable to expect a manufacturer's older products to work well with the new, within reason. I have never to check Canon IS compatibility when buying a new body. Do you know a valid engineering reason why OSS and a FF in crop mode are incompatible?

I have seen reports here about the OSS on the NEX kit zooms not working on A7. But I also recall some reports about specific prime lenses with OSS working on the A7. If the reports are true, they clearly contradict what the rep said.

Both the Sigma 105 and 150 Macro OS lenses work WITH OS on the VG900. Don't see why it would be any different on a7/r. All three bodies have e mount and full frame sensor. Surely somebody on this forum has one or both of these sigma lenses with OS and also owns one of the new camera bodies and can check out the combination for everyone. I do not own one of the new bodies. I do own the VG900.

socode said:

socode said:

Whom exactly at Sony told you that non FE E-mount lenses would not be stabilized on the A7r. Have you tried any to see if they were stabilized?

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It seems fairly reasonable to expect a manufacturer's older products to work well with the new, within reason. I have never to check Canon IS compatibility when buying a new body. Do you know a valid engineering reason why OSS and a FF in crop mode are incompatible?

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It's a bit funny to compare to Canon in this thread, when you can't use their APS-C lenses on their full frame cameras at all.

SQLGuy said:

socode said:

SQLGuy said:

Whom exactly at Sony told you that non FE E-mount lenses would not be stabilized on the A7r. Have you tried any to see if they were stabilized?

Click to expand...

It seems fairly reasonable to expect a manufacturer's older products to work well with the new, within reason. I have never to check Canon IS compatibility when buying a new body. Do you know a valid engineering reason why OSS and a FF in crop mode are incompatible?

Click to expand...

It's a bit funny to compare to Canon in this thread, when you can't use their APS-C lenses on their full frame cameras at all.

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In that case there was an engineering reason. They wanted to allow the EF-S lenses to protrude further into the mirror box. It was also spelt out in marketing before anyone bought anything, and it's nothing to do with IS compatibility.

James Sherman said:

I just spoke with a Sony representative. He rather haughtily informed me that Sony doesn't support OSS on any lens not sold as an FE lens when used with an A7r. When I pointed out that nearly every lens referenced from the A7r "compatibility" page has a description which includes OSS (checked 10 minutes ago - no disclaimer), he said that was just a "minor web detail". :-x I think it's fraud, since they are well aware that it's wrong but aren't interested in changing it.

So, folks, don't expect your lenses to work properly on an A7r and don't expect support from Sony. Or truth in advertising, either. I'm seriously considering sending the A7r back, since there is no telephoto lens available (that works off a tripod). The 55-210 is so slow that to get sharp shots I'd have to use high ISO all the time, hand held. I'm handicapped and not physically very stable, so YMMV. I need the OSS. For what it's worth, I believe OSS does work on my 10-18 (of course I don't need it there). YMMV, again.

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why would you buy a FF that only works in crop mode with existing NEX OIS/AF lenses ? seems crazy to me to drop all that money on a Sony FF with no OIS/AF lenses available and poor AF (compared to Canikon competition)

If you are talking static shots and tripod mounted the A7 is great (great for the NEX landscape shooters), if you are shooting things that move, handheld with a bit of tele the A7 is a waste of time .. send it back and get Canikon FF it will be a lot less painful an experience to get great shots though it wont be as pretty/svelte and bodywise will cost more.

James Sherman said:

I just spoke with a Sony representative. He rather haughtily informed me that Sony doesn't support OSS on any lens not sold as an FE lens when used with an A7r. When I pointed out that nearly every lens referenced from the A7r "compatibility" page has a description which includes OSS (checked 10 minutes ago - no disclaimer), he said that was just a "minor web detail". :-x I think it's fraud, since they are well aware that it's wrong but aren't interested in changing it.

So, folks, don't expect your lenses to work properly on an A7r and don't expect support from Sony. Or truth in advertising, either. I'm seriously considering sending the A7r back, since there is no telephoto lens available (that works off a tripod). The 55-210 is so slow that to get sharp shots I'd have to use high ISO all the time, hand held. I'm handicapped and not physically very stable, so YMMV. I need the OSS. For what it's worth, I believe OSS does work on my 10-18 (of course I don't need it there). YMMV, again.

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It's better to check facts then complain. Here's the links for the lens compatibility with the A7.

Sony A7 Lens compatibility chart

The 70-200 f4 should be around the corner. I hope that works for you.

http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/products/lenses/lineup/detail/sel70200g.html

This is indeed interesting why some E crop lenses have no OSS support while others do.

Seems to be written in the manual so not much to complain about but is very very peculiar.

hyenadog said:

James Sherman said:

I just spoke with a Sony representative. He rather haughtily informed me that Sony doesn't support OSS on any lens not sold as an FE lens when used with an A7r. When I pointed out that nearly every lens referenced from the A7r "compatibility" page has a description which includes OSS (checked 10 minutes ago - no disclaimer), he said that was just a "minor web detail". :-x I think it's fraud, since they are well aware that it's wrong but aren't interested in changing it.

So, folks, don't expect your lenses to work properly on an A7r and don't expect support from Sony. Or truth in advertising, either. I'm seriously considering sending the A7r back, since there is no telephoto lens available (that works off a tripod). The 55-210 is so slow that to get sharp shots I'd have to use high ISO all the time, hand held. I'm handicapped and not physically very stable, so YMMV. I need the OSS. For what it's worth, I believe OSS does work on my 10-18 (of course I don't need it there). YMMV, again.

Click to expand...

why would you buy a FF that only works in crop mode with existing NEX OIS/AF lenses ?

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But this is not true! The A7 has at this moment 4 compatible AF lenses 2 of them support OIS&AF Two primes (the Zeiss branded ones) do not have OIS. The most APS E-mount lenses work with both AF & OIS (look here ) Only the kit lenses and the 55-210mm don't have OIS on the A7...

hyenadog said:

seems crazy to me to drop all that money on a Sony FF with no OIS/AF lenses available and poor AF (compared to Canikon competition)

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Well here you are wrong again. there are 2 zoom lenses with OIS available at the moment, a third is on its way (the 70-200mm), and there are two primes with AF but without OIS, but with extreme high quality (the 35mm f2.8 and the 55mm f1.8)

And the AF is not poor, maybe a la bit slower, but not poor. The review says about the AF:

hyenadog said:

hyenadog said:

Overall, we found the AF system to be responsive and accurate in most situations. In good light the camera focused quickly, with very little 'hunting' by the AF system. Low light focusing was a bit different. The a7 sometimes hunted, which resulted in slower (but not horrible) focus times.

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hyenadog said:

If you are talking static shots and tripod mounted the A7 is great (great for the NEX landscape shooters), if you are shooting things that move, handheld with a bit of tele the A7 is a waste of time ..

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Why a waste of time? OIS is not working for moving subjects with no camera, that is the biggest limmitation of every IS system. When you use a tele lens for moving subjects you need a fast shutter speed. With a fast shutter speed IS s less important then with a longer shutter speed.

hyenadog said:

send it back and get Canikon FF it will be a lot less painful an experience to get great shots though it wont be as pretty/svelte and bodywise will cost more.

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Do you own a A7(r) that you can tell this? Or is this all from your non existent experience? The Canon FF cameras are very nice, but more expensive then the Sony camera and, due to the size, you will leave it more at home. So it maybe can take better pictures, but it will not do so, as a camera at home makes NEVER better pictgures then the camera in your hand...

So to the OP:

Most Sony APS lenses will use OIS on the A7. All AF E-mount lenses will AF on the A7. The A7 is a young system, when you need a lens that is not available or allread announced (like ythe 70-200 f4) then you have a reason not to buy the camera, otherwise it looks like a very nice camera, both from the review on this site as from the review of many users in this forum.

Kiril Karaatanasov said:

...

This is indeed interesting why some E crop lenses have no OSS support while others do.

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Theory:

I would say that the camera communicates certain parameters to the lens that are used by the lens to calibrate the stabilization. It may be that those lenses don't happen to be able to accommodate the required settings. None of the E lenses were specifically designed with full frame in mind. It just happens that it many of the lenses can work with those parameters, and some have a narrower range.

What specifically would be different, given they only need to cover their original APS-C circle? I have no idea. Just explaining why some would work and others not.

Brian Caslis said:

James Sherman said:

I just spoke with a Sony representative. He rather haughtily informed me that Sony doesn't support OSS on any lens not sold as an FE lens when used with an A7r. When I pointed out that nearly every lens referenced from the A7r "compatibility" page has a description which includes OSS (checked 10 minutes ago - no disclaimer), he said that was just a "minor web detail". :-x I think it's fraud, since they are well aware that it's wrong but aren't interested in changing it.

So, folks, don't expect your lenses to work properly on an A7r and don't expect support from Sony. Or truth in advertising, either. I'm seriously considering sending the A7r back, since there is no telephoto lens available (that works off a tripod). The 55-210 is so slow that to get sharp shots I'd have to use high ISO all the time, hand held. I'm handicapped and not physically very stable, so YMMV. I need the OSS. For what it's worth, I believe OSS does work on my 10-18 (of course I don't need it there). YMMV, again.

Click to expand...

It's better to check facts then complain. Here's the links for the lens compatibility with the A7.

Sony A7 Lens compatibility chart

Click to expand...

Good info and the compatibility chart does indicate the lenses that don't support OSS with the A7/r.

socode said:

socode said:

Whom exactly at Sony told you that non FE E-mount lenses would not be stabilized on the A7r. Have you tried any to see if they were stabilized?

Click to expand...

It seems fairly reasonable to expect a manufacturer's older products to work well with the new, within reason. I have never to check Canon IS compatibility when buying a new body. Do you know a valid engineering reason why OSS and a FF in crop mode are incompatible?

Click to expand...

How does OSS work? If thru a software interface, there could be a limitation of the interface spec for the lenses in question and the camera firmware?

Who is this "Sony Rep"? A Sony Store employee?? If so, the ones I've talked to have very little knowledge of the Imaging Products. Come to think of it, they usually have very limited knowledge period

socode said:

SQLGuy said:

socode said:

socode said:

Whom exactly at Sony told you that non FE E-mount lenses would not be stabilized on the A7r. Have you tried any to see if they were stabilized?

Click to expand...

It seems fairly reasonable to expect a manufacturer's older products to work well with the new, within reason. I have never to check Canon IS compatibility when buying a new body. Do you know a valid engineering reason why OSS and a FF in crop mode are incompatible?

Click to expand...

It's a bit funny to compare to Canon in this thread, when you can't use their APS-C lenses on their full frame cameras at all.

Click to expand...

In that case there was an engineering reason. They wanted to allow the EF-S lenses to protrude further into the mirror box. It was also spelt out in marketing before anyone bought anything, and it's nothing to do with IS compatibility.

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Canon always has good engineering reasons why their customers need to buy new lenses. Like needing EF to be 2mm longer than FD.

I am rather curious, though, what the reason is for the limitation of OSS on the A7/R. It seems like in-lens stabilization should work for all lenses if it works for some lenses. The only possibility that comes to mind at the moment is that maybe Sony came up with a lower power form of OSS for the later E-mount lenses, and didn't supply enough current in the A7/R to support the older, higher powered OSS version.

They use to have disclaimers up, not sure what they did with them.

Eric