Anonymity, responsibiliy, accountability

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions, seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace? Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example, or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of anonymity?

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

I find it amazing how disrespectful, and downright sarcastic some people can be.

I believe in extending grace to people, to try to help where I can, and to try and learn when I can; always trying to try to build one another up, never tearing one down. I believe in treating another as I would like to be treated myself. I have enough self-confidence and self-value that I don't feel like I have to always be right, and defend my purchases as being the best, at the expense of being rude and childish.

Are these forums perfect ? No, but I am learning a lot from those of you who are willing to be helpful, and have much more knowlege in this area than I do.

Do I wish some of this unnecessary behavior would stop ? Yes, but I am also able to rise above it when I see it.

Just my thoughts...

Darrel

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

Peter and Darrel,

I agree with both of you in all aspects, that some people will hide behind their keyboards merely to give out critical, degrading, and insulting remarks under the cover of the internet!

Freedom of speech comes with a lot of responsibility for what is spoken. Part of this responsibility is the use of intelligent responses, instead of emotional ones. This is merely a conjecture, but... do you think the people who react so negatively on the internet are the same type of people who cut us off in traffic and experience "road rage" when they reach a red light or get behind a slow car?

Anyway, the primary purpose of the title bar above all our messages is to let all the readers know who takes responsibility for their own responses. People who do not use truthful names and E-mail addresses obviously know they are wrong to say what they do, or else why would they not want us to know who and where they are?

I have not put my name below my responses because my name and E-mail address in the title bar are correct, however, from this point forward I will put my name at the bottom of my responses.

Truthfully,
David E. Scott

-----------------------///------------------------

Darrel McDonald said:

I believe in extending grace to people, to try to help where I can, and
to try and learn when I can; always trying to try to build one another
up, never tearing one down. I believe in treating another as I would
like to be treated myself. I have enough self-confidence and self-value
that I don't feel like I have to always be right, and defend my purchases
as being the best, at the expense of being rude and childish.

Are these forums perfect ? No, but I am learning a lot from those of you
who are willing to be helpful, and have much more knowlege in this area
than I do.
Do I wish some of this unnecessary behavior would stop ? Yes, but I am
also able to rise above it when I see it.

Just my thoughts...

Darrel

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Click to expand...

Peter:

Freedom, including freedom of speech, sometimes comes at a high price. Rude and unhappy people have to be allowed to speak. We don't, however, have to listen..........

After a short while, you learn whose posts to read and whose posts to ignore.

kunza

Member said:

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Click to expand...

Peter,

It shouldn't, but unfortunately human nature is often such that some individuals can only feel important while degrading others, or their opinions - and I suppose we all need to feel important at some time or another. It's a shame that the world isn't populated with more people who believe a constructive free sharing of ideas and concepts contributes more than gossip and controversy. I've found that one of the best ways to shut up a heckler is to ignore the response. Years ago, as a musician working in bars, I learned that humor can often diffuse a potential tense situation, but that works best in face-to-face situations. In the case of individuals whose only contribution is downgrading another's sincere attempt at solving a problem or answering a question, I think not dignifying the issue with a response is probably the best overall solution.

Member said:

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Click to expand...

Fortunately, it is only a small percentage of individuals who fall into this category - we should probably ignore them and hope that they will learn the error of their ways and become productive contributors.

Member said:

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

Click to expand...

It certainly should be!

Member said:

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

Lin

Peter,

The way you've been treated on this forum is regretable. However, when you posted to this public forum, you, in effect, where "publishing" your ideas. When someone puts themselves in the public eye, as you have and I do now with this post, that pseron must be able to accept critisism or public redicule. Sometimes the ridicule isn't true, but it's that person's opinion and they have the right to publically express it because you are publically expressing your ideas.

In other words, you just have to put up with this kind of thing if you're going to post to a public forum. It would be much better for you (and more mature) if you simply ignored such posts. The person would soon lose interest, trust me!

Regards,

Shawn Ellis

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

All of the responses to your posting are very valid and true. I am glad that up to this point there have been no negative responses. I would like to further add to David's comment.

If someone has to hide their identity, how valid can their view, opinion, or comment be?

Our name and identity is our badge of honor and those who choose to hide their identity when giving critism or spewing dogma bring no honor to what they are saying. It is sad that these people exist and whenever I see negative, non-constructive, comments all I do is pity the people who had to express themselve that way. I, also, hope that one day they see and experience the product of their negativity and change their ways.

Something to think about anonymity. I may not put my full name and am using my business address, but I fully stand by my opinions. Anonymity is sometimes required to protect us from those who would take advantage of the information we provide of ourselves. These forums are for the free-flow of information and as with everything in life we have to take the bad with the good.

Cheers,
Athena

David E. Scott said:

I agree with both of you in all aspects, that some people will hide
behind their keyboards merely to give out critical, degrading, and
insulting remarks under the cover of the internet!

Freedom of speech comes with a lot of responsibility for what is spoken.
Part of this responsibility is the use of intelligent responses, instead
of emotional ones. This is merely a conjecture, but... do you think
the people who react so negatively on the internet are the same type of
people who cut us off in traffic and experience "road rage" when they
reach a red light or get behind a slow car?

Anyway, the primary purpose of the title bar above all our messages is to
let all the readers know who takes responsibility for their own
responses. People who do not use truthful names and E-mail addresses
obviously know they are wrong to say what they do, or else why would they
not want us to know who and where they are?

I have not put my name below my responses because my name and E-mail
address in the title bar are correct, however, from this point forward I
will put my name at the bottom of my responses.

Truthfully,
David E. Scott

-----------------------///------------------------

Darrel McDonald said:

I believe in extending grace to people, to try to help where I can, and
to try and learn when I can; always trying to try to build one another
up, never tearing one down. I believe in treating another as I would
like to be treated myself. I have enough self-confidence and self-value
that I don't feel like I have to always be right, and defend my purchases
as being the best, at the expense of being rude and childish.

Are these forums perfect ? No, but I am learning a lot from those of you
who are willing to be helpful, and have much more knowlege in this area
than I do.
Do I wish some of this unnecessary behavior would stop ? Yes, but I am
also able to rise above it when I see it.

Just my thoughts...

Darrel

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Well, after two days I can finally load this site again. The modem lights are on and everybody's home!

I've really enjoyed visiting Forums since their first inception in the earliest days of personal computing. Since then, I've witnessed a great many really obnoxious people posting.

The worsed case actually contributed to the suicide of one individual who was the target of some really degrading remarks. That individuals brother created a vendeta to disrupt that particular forum in every way he could. It was only through the forum itself and proper communication, that the brother was consoled and reason was again restored.

Forums, because of their anonymity, can harbour people with every personality trait that could be conceived of. A scale from Mother Teresas to the Grand whatever of the KKK can be present at any one time. Drugs, including alcohol can precipitate actions from people who are reasonable while not under the influence of said substances. I myself have been guilty, late at night of spewing out some pretty nasty obscenities when intoxicated. A lot of factors need to be taken into consideration. Did the Boss give you a bad time at work today and you don't have a dog to kick?

The solution I've seen implemented to remove repeat offenders at other heavily used forums is the requirement of passwords or other unique keys that would allow the web master to bar individuals who repeatedly create problems at the forum. These work pretty well as a valid email address is usually required. Granted, new email boxes can be obtained and the offensive individual could re-enter.

Having worked as a bar tender, logger, horseshoer, cab driver etc. over the last thirty years, I must admit I am more prone to verbally knock somebodys block off then put up with offensive remarks thrown in my direction. However, as I've grown older, I must agree with the consensus of opinions regarding this subject and just ignore the individual. Ignoring those people can't always be done. I've watched some of these creeps follow people from post to post. In that last case, the recipient of the abuse has the option, of course, of not bringing the reply up. That works if the abusive individual is recognizable. I've seen some abusers change their name and email to continue being offensive rather then ignored.

Best solution, is to cross your fingers and hope the "creeps" will remain a very small minority amongst forum visitors.

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

When you make people accountable, traffic goes down. I suspect that is something Phil doesn't want. It's getting really annoying now that we are getting mystery messages (with coincidentally similar writing styles to Mr. H). The sure fire way to get rid of this crap is to not respond to them at all. Your input in this forum is greatly appreciated Peter, but unfortunately your attention to Fred is one reason why he is still here. Note that originally he targeted Phil and upon getting no response, moved on to other things. Please just ignore him (and his clones) and he will go away. I guarantee it.

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

Peter,

I choose to participate in these forums without anonymity. However, I think that the option of participation with anonymity is a MUST! I have diligently taught my daughters how to participate in forums anonymously. I have also taught them how to obtain non-traceable e-mail addresses. I don't allow them to communicate in forums with reference to their phone numbers, geographic position, names, addresses, e-mail addresses, etc. with people they don't know. Maybe I am paranoid, but even this forum has had it's problems with nut cases.

While teaching my daughters how to obtain an alias for the net, I also have taught them that their anonymity does not allow them to be disrespectful or slanderous.

I think that anonymous identities should be allowed to participate in these forums. These forums are about the digital cameras and related technologies, not about the individuals. If you were to flip the Fred H. thing around so that you were the anonymous individual and Fred H. of Fogmation was real, would it make his posts any more respectful? Not really, and I would still consume your advice and balance it with the rest.

This being said, I am very disturbed about some of the recent anonymous posts (you really can't attribute these to Fred H., whoever he is) of the "shove it up Peter's ....." variety. It is very intimidating for someone to state "I know who you are!" from behind the hood of anonymity. How do you propose to hold people accountable for this, even if we knew who it was? In my opinion, Phil and his site should filter out posts like these. I think the same should be done (and probably is) to any post where taste is questionable. There needs to be a standard that is enforced by Mr. Askey. To my knowledge, there are no rules posted for these forums. This would be a good start.

It would be easy to assume what you think on the subject, but you really didn't state your opinion. What do you think?

Brent

Whhoooaa, I'd really rather not burden Phil with playing "Mom" to all of us! I'd rather see the latest camera reviews sooner! Mabye a participant or participants of this forum could be given the rights to "police" it by Phil.

Brent Keith said:

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

Peter,

I choose to participate in these forums without anonymity. However, I
think that the option of participation with anonymity is a MUST! I have
diligently taught my daughters how to participate in forums anonymously.
I have also taught them how to obtain non-traceable e-mail addresses. I
don't allow them to communicate in forums with reference to their phone
numbers, geographic position, names, addresses, e-mail addresses, etc.
with people they don't know. Maybe I am paranoid, but even this forum has
had it's problems with nut cases.

While teaching my daughters how to obtain an alias for the net, I also
have taught them that their anonymity does not allow them to be
disrespectful or slanderous.

I think that anonymous identities should be allowed to participate in
these forums. These forums are about the digital cameras and related
technologies, not about the individuals. If you were to flip the Fred H.
thing around so that you were the anonymous individual and Fred H. of
Fogmation was real, would it make his posts any more respectful? Not
really, and I would still consume your advice and balance it with the
rest.

This being said, I am very disturbed about some of the recent anonymous
posts (you really can't attribute these to Fred H., whoever he is) of the
"shove it up Peter's ....." variety. It is very intimidating for someone
to state "I know who you are!" from behind the hood of anonymity. How do
you propose to hold people accountable for this, even if we knew who it
was? In my opinion, Phil and his site should filter out posts like these.
I think the same should be done (and probably is) to any post where taste
is questionable. There needs to be a standard that is enforced by Mr.
Askey. To my knowledge, there are no rules posted for these forums. This
would be a good start.

It would be easy to assume what you think on the subject, but you really
didn't state your opinion. What do you think?

Brent

Click to expand...

Shawn Ellis said:

Brent Keith said:

Peter iNova said:

Forums like this are for the free flowing of ideas, posing questions,
seeking answers, sharing techniques, warning people of scams, bringing up
interesting ideas... in short, learning things.

Some feel that it is a place where they can anonymously deride, slander
and disrupt.

The question of the hour is this:

Should a forum like this be the place where individuals can do the
negative things without accountability, responsibility or public trace?
Is this the place where anonymous individuals can tell you to cram this
or that up where the sun don't shine, to quote a colorful actual example,
or can seek to harm your reputation (slander) from behind a curtain of
anonymity?

Is this a latter day Ku Klux Klan? Prejudiced individuals hiding behind
a sheet? Can and should people become the Photographic Secret Police
without accountability for their tirades and derision?

Or is this a place where people give their time, effort and knowledge to
a group who stands accountable for individual responses?

I would like to hear your opinions and reasoning.

And be careful what you wish for.

-Peter iNova

Click to expand...

Peter,

I choose to participate in these forums without anonymity. However, I
think that the option of participation with anonymity is a MUST! I have
diligently taught my daughters how to participate in forums anonymously.
I have also taught them how to obtain non-traceable e-mail addresses. I
don't allow them to communicate in forums with reference to their phone
numbers, geographic position, names, addresses, e-mail addresses, etc.
with people they don't know. Maybe I am paranoid, but even this forum has
had it's problems with nut cases.

While teaching my daughters how to obtain an alias for the net, I also
have taught them that their anonymity does not allow them to be
disrespectful or slanderous.

I think that anonymous identities should be allowed to participate in
these forums. These forums are about the digital cameras and related
technologies, not about the individuals. If you were to flip the Fred H.
thing around so that you were the anonymous individual and Fred H. of
Fogmation was real, would it make his posts any more respectful? Not
really, and I would still consume your advice and balance it with the
rest.

This being said, I am very disturbed about some of the recent anonymous
posts (you really can't attribute these to Fred H., whoever he is) of the
"shove it up Peter's ....." variety. It is very intimidating for someone
to state "I know who you are!" from behind the hood of anonymity. How do
you propose to hold people accountable for this, even if we knew who it
was? In my opinion, Phil and his site should filter out posts like these.
I think the same should be done (and probably is) to any post where taste
is questionable. There needs to be a standard that is enforced by Mr.
Askey. To my knowledge, there are no rules posted for these forums. This
would be a good start.

It would be easy to assume what you think on the subject, but you really
didn't state your opinion. What do you think?

Brent

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I believe that there is a simple answer to this problem... just ignore those that attempt to disrupt this outstanding Forum.

Shawn Ellis said:

Whhoooaa, I'd really rather not burden Phil with playing "Mom" to all of
us! I'd rather see the latest camera reviews sooner! Mabye a
participant or participants of this forum could be given the rights to
"police" it by Phil.

Click to expand...

Shawn,

How about some posted rules to start off with? He might be able to squeeze that in between reviews.

As far as moderator / participants, that sounds like a good idea.

Brent

Bob said:

I believe that there is a simple answer to this problem... just ignore
those that attempt to disrupt this outstanding Forum.

Click to expand...

Okay. I've gotten a lot of good views here. Bob's (above) is in a sort of majority. Just ignore the problem. That might work in some ways but it doesn't address other issues at all!

What may turn out to be a disruption doesn't look like it in the first post. It develops. Now somebody has proposed nonsense and somebody else is trying to convince the world that truth is elsewhere and newcomers are reading this and can't decide. Then a name gets thrown in a way that provokes a response like, "get out!" and an expert is lost to the system because a Jerk (capital J) has been abusive. Sure, just ignore him. And leave the Forum behind because of a Jerk. Who does that benefit? Jerk wins. End of story?

With this recent Fred thing, that almost happened to me. Posts telling of how Forums eat their best experts drew me back and I vowed to stay civil but extremely unyielding and said so. At the end of the day, like Senator McCarthy in US history, he was revealed unmistakeably as being wrong and went out shouting, "Buffoon!" (a person who plays the fool) at somebody who played the scientist. Go figure.

Reputations are being made here. Clarity of information is being passed around here. And like other disciplines a freedom to critique and disagree must be made available or the odd concept can't rise to its useful or deserved level.

The concept of posting a short list of "road rules" might go far to insure a future lack of "road rage" and asking Phil to become Mom isn't an answer at all.

Anonymity is a priviledge, not a right. Freedom from slander IS a right.

One could conceive of code that checked the return address of every incoming post and flagged anonymous entries with a caution but it would be impractical and insulting to those avoiding stalkers and jerks. It would color the valid anonymous posters as potential jerks as well.

The point about making this Forum spontaneous is well taken. Forcing people to gain access through some sort of verification is anathema.

But accountability is an issue, because nobody benefits when people can harm somebody's reputation without accountability. It didn't work well for the ancient Venicians who hid often behind masks and cloaks (Well, heck, it worked real well for the hidden but wreaked havoc on the population. "Who killed him?" "Guy in a cloak and hat with a big stork mask."). Lotta perfect crimes back then. Lotta stork masks.

Within the headers Phil receives with each post are clues to the origin of the post. Those data are stripped away in a display of the post but may be retained in Phil's system. For anonymous flamers to know that they aren't quite as untraceable as they think might hold some persuasive influence. Knowing that the fine for posting trash, slander, insults and spam is bannishment might help, but that requires some response from Phil. It's his back yard, after all.

I'm afraid the best solution is a new entry on the side bar that says Forum Rules of Decorum. Naah, that's too cumbersome, but you see what I mean.

And thank you all for giving good thoughts.

-iNova

I don't see the problem with someone telling Mr. iNova to shove things up

his big fat arse. Everytime he posts something, he makes it sound like his words
are the final answer when it is just a bunch conjectures. Also, whats with
changing the subject lines?

Peter Pecker: get a clue and change your "Depends Diapers" once in a while.
You're starting to stink up the place.

(The above is my opinion. On the internet, one's opinion should be allowed
to aired. Go ahead. Trace my posts all the way to my toilet you old fart.)

Joe Slone said:

I don't see the problem with someone telling Mr. iNova to shove things up
his big fat arse. Everytime he posts something, he makes it sound like
his words
are the final answer when it is just a bunch conjectures. Also, whats with
changing the subject lines?

Peter Pecker: get a clue and change your "Depends Diapers" once in a while.
You're starting to stink up the place.

(The above is my opinion. On the internet, one's opinion should be allowed
to aired. Go ahead. Trace my posts all the way to my toilet you old fart.)

Click to expand...

"Joe"?

Ad Hominum - You're guilt of it: Look it up! There's nothing wrong with changing the subject line if it adds clarity to the direction of the discussion. You are correct, one's opinions should be allowed to be posted - yours have been; but seriously consider what positive effect, if any, they bring to the forum. Most who post opinions and offer advice do so with the hope of either passing on something they have learned, or learning other's views to gain insights on diverse subjects. It really doesn't add anything of value to the discussions to attack someone personally because you believe that what they have to say is either wrong or has no scientific foundation. Attack the argument, attack the source or veracity of the theory or premise, but don't attack the individual. A personal attack because you don't like someone (perhaps because they may have more to say than others) doesn't make your point, it only reveals your anger. We may all be angry at one time or another because we disagree with an opinion or someone's position on a particular subject, but the best way to remedy this and extract "revenge" is to first be certain that you are correct in your assertions, then arm yourself with knowledge and facts and use these fact to show why the other's position is weak or their reasoning faulty. Peter iNova, whether you like him or not, has added much valuable insight to the various forums. That's my opinion. I don't always agree with what Peter says and I'm certain he doesn't always agree with me, but we don't have to get personal and engage in name calling to resolve or express our differences. We can have a gentleman's agreement to disagree and that's O.K. I'm sure you can do likewise and voice your difference without resorting to expressions of anger and frustration. That way everyone can get back to enjoying friendly discussions and we can all learn from each other's experiences. Seriously, wouldn't that be more productive and less wasteful of all our time and energy?

Lin

Fred, c'mon, we all know it's you. Who else would it be? What other sort of spammer would even bother reading into a post about responsibility that had my name on it?

It simply isn't plausible that the same grammatical errors, the same missed verbs, the same attitude, the same missed capitalizations, the same good spelling, the same crude vocabulary, the same missed contractions, the same statistical structural presentation, the same phrase bank, the same punctuation habits and the same attitude against me in particular are coming from some suddenly vocal source who had no other ax to grind than to call me a stronger version of the "buffoon" you called me in your last "signed" posting.

And if you wish to say it wasn't you, sue me for slander. I welcome the opportunity to see you in court.

-iNova

Joe Slone said:

I don't see the problem with someone telling Mr. iNova to shove things up
his big fat arse. Everytime he posts something, he makes it sound like
his words
are the final answer when it is just a bunch conjectures. Also, whats with
changing the subject lines?

Peter Pecker: get a clue and change your "Depends Diapers" once in a while.
You're starting to stink up the place.

(The above is my opinion. On the internet, one's opinion should be allowed
to aired. Go ahead. Trace my posts all the way to my toilet you old fart.)

Click to expand...

with the emphasis on "disorder".

Peter iNova said:

-iNova

Joe Slone said:

(The above is my opinion. On the internet, one's opinion should be allowed
to aired. Go ahead. Trace my posts all the way to my toilet you old fart.)

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Okay, Okay! It's time to just let it go! Peter, you have a finite amount of time to allocate to these forums. I really do understand where you're coming from, but I would much rather you share your tips and techniques than your frustration. Your years of knowledge and accumulated skills aren't accessible to me if your time is spent skinning tripe. Please !?!?!

Dave Kunze

Lin Evans said:

Joe Slone said:

I don't see the problem with someone telling Mr. iNova to shove things up
his big fat arse. Everytime he posts something, he makes it sound like
his words
are the final answer when it is just a bunch conjectures. Also, whats with
changing the subject lines?

Peter Pecker: get a clue and change your "Depends Diapers" once in a while.
You're starting to stink up the place.

(The above is my opinion. On the internet, one's opinion should be allowed
to aired. Go ahead. Trace my posts all the way to my toilet you old fart.)

Click to expand...

"Joe"?

Ad Hominum - You're guilt of it: Look it up! There's nothing wrong with
changing the subject line if it adds clarity to the direction of the
discussion. You are correct, one's opinions should be allowed to be
posted - yours have been; but seriously consider what positive effect, if
any, they bring to the forum. Most who post opinions and offer advice do
so with the hope of either passing on something they have learned, or
learning other's views to gain insights on diverse subjects. It really
doesn't add anything of value to the discussions to attack someone
personally because you believe that what they have to say is either wrong
or has no scientific foundation. Attack the argument, attack the source
or veracity of the theory or premise, but don't attack the individual. A
personal attack because you don't like someone (perhaps because they may
have more to say than others) doesn't make your point, it only reveals
your anger. We may all be angry at one time or another because we
disagree with an opinion or someone's position on a particular subject,
but the best way to remedy this and extract "revenge" is to first be
certain that you are correct in your assertions, then arm yourself with
knowledge and facts and use these fact to show why the other's position
is weak or their reasoning faulty. Peter iNova, whether you like him or
not, has added much valuable insight to the various forums. That's my
opinion. I don't always agree with what Peter says and I'm certain he
doesn't always agree with me, but we don't have to get personal and
engage in name calling to resolve or express our differences. We can have
a gentleman's agreement to disagree and that's O.K. I'm sure you can do
likewise and voice your difference without resorting to expressions of
anger and frustration. That way everyone can get back to enjoying
friendly discussions and we can all learn from each other's experiences.
Seriously, wouldn't that be more productive and less wasteful of all our
time and energy?

Lin

Click to expand...

Very well put Lin! I for one have gained so much knowledge from this forum, and enjoy constructive imput from all. It would be so nice to put personal differences in perspective without the 'Gutter Talk'.....Love this forum and hope it' moves on' in a positive manner! Regards Joan K