Z650: what makes this a hidden gem?

chiue said:

chiue said:

IMHO (just my personal speculation), I don't think it is the CCD or size (I think the size is 1/2.5 which is among the smallest size). Kodak camera in that time frame had the Kodak Colors Science chip, which I think could be the factor. Plus the Z650 had the SK lens and Kodak's WB is the best in the industry. SOOC, my Kodak camera give me the most natural looking pictures.

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Thanks for your answer. I've only had two digital cameras, and didn't realize there could be that much difference between the photos various cameras take, besides those due to mps. I've certainly seen plenty of digital images, but no camera ever impressed me the way this one did.

Lee

I'm not sure what it is either, but I have several really good cameras that are hard pressed to match the sharpness of Kodaks C875. I have two 875's and am always amazed at the pictures they are capible of. Also a Z8612 is very sharp but doesn't quite have the color of the C875.

This all started with the C533, I bought in 2006. It was so sharp I thought all cameras were, boy was I wrong. I went through quite a few cameras looking for one that could measure up to it, haven't found it yet for OOCJ, boy if only the shot raw.

David

David, if you go back to my Tuscany shots, they were all with the C663. I LOVE that little gem. I had available to me a Pentax dslr, a Lumix and several other Kodaks when we visited Italy but I chose the C663 and it delivered great images. I have no idea why and frankly, my new Nikon D3100 isn't delivering the way that little Kodak did.

stronics said:

I'm not sure what it is either, but I have several really good cameras that are hard pressed to match the sharpness of Kodaks C875. I have two 875's and am always amazed at the pictures they are capible of. Also a Z8612 is very sharp but doesn't quite have the color of the C875.

This all started with the C533, I bought in 2006. It was so sharp I thought all cameras were, boy was I wrong. I went through quite a few cameras looking for one that could measure up to it, haven't found it yet for OOCJ, boy if only the shot raw.

David

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Hi David, it just proofs that the people at Chino/Yokohama Japan, knew what they were doing. The one and only Kodak Color Science chip was a Chino developement. Later on, after Kodak outsourced the developement and production to Flextonics (from late 2006) the DC's were a bit different afa colour rendition is concerned (Z8612, Z980 for instance). Different JPEG engine.

IMO it went full speed downhill from that moment on :-(

--
Mart
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, does not go away.
Kodak DX7590, Z980, P880, C875, P850, M583, P712, V570, DC3400, DC290, DC4800.
( Lumix TZ5, my wife)

JamesD2 said:

David, if you go back to my Tuscany shots, they were all with the C663. I LOVE that little gem. I had available to me a Pentax dslr, a Lumix and several other Kodaks when we visited Italy but I chose the C663 and it delivered great images. I have no idea why and frankly, my new Nikon D3100 isn't delivering the way that little Kodak did.

--
JamesD
Happy Snappin'

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I do have an idea of what causes it, James:


It's that little Kodak Color Science sticker!!!

Even the more modest models were equipped with the chip....... Afa the looks are concerned, it looks like the little brother of the C875. Your Tuscany pictures proof it's quality!!

--
Mart
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, does not go away.
Kodak DX7590, Z980, P880, C875, P850, M583, P712, V570, DC3400, DC290, DC4800.
( Lumix TZ5, my wife)

Ah... that chip! You know, Mart, Lin and I bought that little gem at Costco many years ago so she could have a camera in her purse at all times. Well... it's in a little case that I bought for it and it now resides in our car permanently for those times we spot something (i.e. UFO's... LOL) while we're out driving!

Blackbear said:

stronics said:

I'm not sure what it is either, but I have several really good cameras that are hard pressed to match the sharpness of Kodaks C875. I have two 875's and am always amazed at the pictures they are capible of. Also a Z8612 is very sharp but doesn't quite have the color of the C875.

This all started with the C533, I bought in 2006. It was so sharp I thought all cameras were, boy was I wrong. I went through quite a few cameras looking for one that could measure up to it, haven't found it yet for OOCJ, boy if only the shot raw.

David

Click to expand...

Hi David, it just proofs that the people at Chino/Yokohama Japan, knew what they were doing. The one and only Kodak Color Science chip was a Chino developement. Later on, after Kodak outsourced the developement and production to Flextonics (from late 2006) the DC's were a bit different afa colour rendition is concerned (Z8612, Z980 for instance). Different JPEG engine.

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Mart, I did not know the Kodak Colors Science chip was developed by Chino. Where do you obtain the information from?

For my Kodak cams that have the KCSC, I always found that the colors posses some kind of live in it.
Lens sharpness to me a not the first priority, colors are.

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chiue -
Nikon D5000 / Kodak Z990 P880 DX7590 Z915 DX6440 V803 M420 C190 C875 Zx3
Kodak Digital Cameras Galleries
http://www.wix.com/chiuestar/Kodak-DC
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/chiue/camera/cameras-a2.jpg

chiue said:

Blackbear said:

stronics said:

I'm not sure what it is either, but I have several really good cameras that are hard pressed to match the sharpness of Kodaks C875. I have two 875's and am always amazed at the pictures they are capible of. Also a Z8612 is very sharp but doesn't quite have the color of the C875.

This all started with the C533, I bought in 2006. It was so sharp I thought all cameras were, boy was I wrong. I went through quite a few cameras looking for one that could measure up to it, haven't found it yet for OOCJ, boy if only the shot raw.

David

Click to expand...

Hi David, it just proofs that the people at Chino/Yokohama Japan, knew what they were doing. The one and only Kodak Color Science chip was a Chino developement. Later on, after Kodak outsourced the developement and production to Flextonics (from late 2006) the DC's were a bit different afa colour rendition is concerned (Z8612, Z980 for instance). Different JPEG engine.

Click to expand...

Mart, I did not know the Kodak Colors Science chip was developed by Chino. Where do you obtain the information from?

For my Kodak cams that have the KCSC, I always found that the colors posses some kind of live in it.
Lens sharpness to me a not the first priority, colors are.

--
chiue -
Nikon D5000 / Kodak Z990 P880 DX7590 Z915 DX6440 V803 M420 C190 C875 Zx3
Kodak Digital Cameras Galleries
http://www.wix.com/chiuestar/Kodak-DC
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/chiue/camera/cameras-a2.jpg

Click to expand...

Hi Chiue, I have no info on that, it's a presumption, but IMHO a fairly good one.

The KCSC appeared in the DC's developed in Japan from 2002 on. The first DC's I could find were the CX4230 (may 2002) and the DX4330 (aug 2002). The DC's were marked with a different KCSC sticker than the later ones. As I recall there were 3 versions in total.


Kodak Easyshare CX4230 with KCSC

A bit of Kodak history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_Kodak

"Many of Kodak's early compact digital cameras were designed and built by Chinon Industries, a Japanese camera manufacturer. In 2004 Kodak Japan acquired Chinon and many of its engineers and designers joined Kodak Japan."

I don't think we'ill ever be able to ascertain whether the KCSC was developed by Kodak US and just implemented by Kodak Japan (Chino), or Chino had to a greater or lesser extend a part in the developement. As the developement of DC's at one particalar moment was concentrated in Chino, it's highly plausible the major part of the developement, if not all, took place in Chino.

In July 2006 Kodak announced that Flextronics would manufacture and help design its digital cameras.

http://www.dc views.com/press/Kodak-Flextronics.htm

"Eastman Kodak Company (NYSE: EK) today announced an agreement in which Flextronics International Ltd. (NASDAQ: FLEX) will manufacture and distribute Kodak consumer digital cameras and will manage certain camera design and development functions. Under the agreement, Kodak will divest its entire digital camera manufacturing requirements to Flextronics, including assembly, production, and testing. Flextronics will also manage the operations and logistics services for Kodak's digital still cameras. Kodak will continue to develop the high-level system design, product look and feel and user experience, and will conduct advanced research and development for its digital still cameras. Kodak will also retain its intellectual property. "

"Upon closing of the transaction, Flextronics will acquire a significant portion of the Kodak Digital Product Center, Japan, Ltd. (“KDPC”) in Chino and Yokohama, Japan, and associated camera design functions and its employees and the digital camera manufacturing, assembly and warehousing requirements and related employees of Kodak Electronics Products, Shanghai Co. Ltd. (“KEPS”) in China. "

From that moment on the KCSC wasn't mentioned anymore in all newly marketed DC's. It also appeared they were slightly different in colour rendition, just as if the "fine tuning" was altered. Maybe also because the developing team differed.

I hope I did circumstantiate this presumption well enough, but nevertheless it stays what it is, a presumption.

--
Mart
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, does not go away.
Kodak DX7590, Z980, P880, C875, P850, M583, P712, V570, DC3400, DC290, DC4800.
( Lumix TZ5, my wife)

Mind you, it's not even certain it is a CHIP. Could be a marketing frase....... Could be the name is used as a mask for THE PROCESS. We all know, Kodakians as we are, that all Kodaks are fairly slow in processing the images. The JPEG engine does a lot of processing and that is done thru the camera software.

So maybe we aren't even talking about hardware, but software !!

--
Mart
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, does not go away.
Kodak DX7590, Z980, P880, C875, P850, M583, P712, V570, DC3400, DC290, DC4800.
( Lumix TZ5, my wife)

This makes an interesting read.

What Kodak says:

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuer...mber=EKN029416&locsvcsEntryPath=131/6547/6935

Discussion at KTF:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/30493228

Discussion at Steve's:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/kodak/161773-has-kodak-color-been-changed.html

We were not the fist to discuss this (probably won't be the last either)

Maybe they are right and KCSC evolved into Kodak Perfect Touch Technology.

--
Mart
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, does not go away.
Kodak DX7590, Z980, P880, C875, P850, M583, P712, V570, DC3400, DC290, DC4800.
( Lumix TZ5, my wife)

Thanks Mart for all these extra information. It is very interesiting to know. I do believe the KCSC is a software (a firmware). No matter what it is, KCSC camera still kicks when compare to today's standard in colors rendition.