Nikon Df and 58g at Ballet

Testing out the Nikon Df and 58mm f/1.4g lens at a rehearsal to determine if this combo can handle a fast-moving low-light performance. So far what I like is the sensor and resulting images. What I don't like is making exposure adjustments. Why the locking iso dial? Why? Hoping I get a little faster with practice.

















--
Joe
www.thesmokingcamera.com

The Smoking Camera said:

...What I don't like is making exposure adjustments. Why the locking iso dial? Why? Hoping I get a little faster with practice.

Click to expand...

Any chance that Auto ISO could do the trick for you?

A couple of threads here have explored a (new?) trick for using Auto ISO in M mode: If you invert the minimum and maximum values for Auto ISO (by setting "Maximum ISO Sensitivity" to a lower number than "ISO Sensitivity"), then the camera will use the user-selected ISO as the ceiling for the Auto ISO range and it will use Maximum ISO as the floor - the opposite of how it usually interprets these settings. This enables you to adjust the upper-limit for Auto ISO using the ISO dial, rather than menu-diving.

Lovely...

Very cool as always!

This thread should have 100 comments

Great work as always Joe!

A couple of questions though. One of the chief criticisms in the review and elsewhere (well before) is that the AF really suffers in low light, which makes it more difficult to take advantage of one of the primary strengths - the camera's amazing low light sensor. This didn't seem to get in your way here, but then I haven't seen your cutting room floor! So how do you find the AF in low light compared to, say, the RX1, a camera I know we both have in common? I know the RX1 isn't fast, but I find it dead reliable - how's the Df?

One of the controls that conceptually really bugs me and has kept me on the sidelines here is the exposure comp dial on the LEFT shoulder and with a locking mechanism! I use exposure comp more on the fly than pretty much any other control on any camera and this position and the lock seem impossible to me. How have you found that? I don't think the ISO dial would bug me because I like Nikon's auto-ISO implementation more than anyone's, so I probably wouldn't be engaging the ISO dial much, but the exposure comp dial really scares me off.

-Ray
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DesertLefty said:

Any chance that Auto ISO could do the trick for you?

A couple of threads here have explored a (new?) trick for using Auto ISO in M mode: If you invert the minimum and maximum values for Auto ISO (by setting "Maximum ISO Sensitivity" to a lower number than "ISO Sensitivity"), then the camera will use the user-selected ISO as the ceiling for the Auto ISO range and it will use Maximum ISO as the floor - the opposite of how it usually interprets these settings. This enables you to adjust the upper-limit for Auto ISO using the ISO dial, rather than menu-diving.

Click to expand...

...only possible (or efficient) on a camera like the Df with its external and visual ISO dial. I've been wondering how to take advantage of Df's external ISO dial, so thanks for sharing! This might just be the ticket.

Ray Sachs said:

Great work as always Joe!

A couple of questions though. One of the chief criticisms in the review and elsewhere (well before) is that the AF really suffers in low light, which makes it more difficult to take advantage of one of the primary strengths - the camera's amazing low light sensor. This didn't seem to get in your way here, but then I haven't seen your cutting room floor! So how do you find the AF in low light compared to, say, the RX1, a camera I know we both have in common? I know the RX1 isn't fast, but I find it dead reliable - how's the Df?

Click to expand...

I have the RX1R too, and using Df is like driving a Ferrari when in low light conditions. I seriously don't know how people rate Df's AF as slow, I mean, have they compared to other horrible slow AF cameras in low light like the magnificent GR and RX1(R)?

I did some night shooting using the "slow" 24-85/3.5-4.5VR lens last week with the Df, I was surprised by how fast it AF to the point I kept doubting whether it AF at all :-D

Ray Sachs said:

One of the controls that conceptually really bugs me and has kept me on the sidelines here is the exposure comp dial on the LEFT shoulder and with a locking mechanism! I use exposure comp more on the fly than pretty much any other control on any camera and this position and the lock seem impossible to me. How have you found that? I don't think the ISO dial would bug me because I like Nikon's auto-ISO implementation more than anyone's, so I probably wouldn't be engaging the ISO dial much, but the exposure comp dial really scares me off. it

Click to expand...

With Df's excellent DR and amazing Matrix metering, better than my RX1R and GR, I haven't found myself needing to change exp comp much. But having said that, I still wish there's a hack to allow exp comp using the sub command dial, it seems the Df locks the exp comp value to whatever set by the dial.

Or maybe I just haven't found it yet. I mean there are literally dozens of menu options that I haven't fully explored, for example, I recall seeing a setting that allows combination of button pressing + command dial turning for whole bunch of functions. But this hack is in there somewhere afterall

digitalphotographer said:

DesertLefty said:

Any chance that Auto ISO could do the trick for you?

A couple of threads here have explored a (new?) trick for using Auto ISO in M mode: If you invert the minimum and maximum values for Auto ISO (by setting "Maximum ISO Sensitivity" to a lower number than "ISO Sensitivity"), then the camera will use the user-selected ISO as the ceiling for the Auto ISO range and it will use Maximum ISO as the floor - the opposite of how it usually interprets these settings. This enables you to adjust the upper-limit for Auto ISO using the ISO dial, rather than menu-diving.

Click to expand...

...only possible (or efficient) on a camera like the Df with its external and visual ISO dial. I've been wondering how to take advantage of Df's external ISO dial, so thanks for sharing! This might just be the ticket.

Click to expand...

Actually this trick works on other Nikon DSLRs too - though I don't yet know which ones.

It definitely works on my D7100. Alas, my D600 is away at Nikon Service this week, so I couldn't test it. It would be very interested for people to try a variety of bodies so that we can figure out when this secret "mode" was introduced.

Kent J has a thread going now on this topic. That would be a good place to report your experiences.

P.S. Actually there's an error in my post above. When the Auto ISO settings are "inverted", the camera does NOT use "Maximum ISO Sensitivity" as the floor value for Auto ISO, instead it uses the camera's base ISO as the floor. So, in M mode with inverted settings, the Auto ISO values will range from base ISO (100) up the user-selected value for "ISO Sensitivity". Again, this is the opposite behavior from how Auto ISO usually works. With non-inverted settings, the user-selected ISO is the floor value for Auto ISO.

digitalphotographer said:

Ray Sachs said:

Great work as always Joe!

A couple of questions though. One of the chief criticisms in the review and elsewhere (well before) is that the AF really suffers in low light, which makes it more difficult to take advantage of one of the primary strengths - the camera's amazing low light sensor. This didn't seem to get in your way here, but then I haven't seen your cutting room floor! So how do you find the AF in low light compared to, say, the RX1, a camera I know we both have in common? I know the RX1 isn't fast, but I find it dead reliable - how's the Df?

Click to expand...

I have the RX1R too, and using Df is like driving a Ferrari when in low light conditions. I seriously don't know how people rate Df's AF as slow, I mean, have they compared to other horrible slow AF cameras in low light like the magnificent GR and RX1(R)?

I did some night shooting using the "slow" 24-85/3.5-4.5VR lens last week with the Df, I was surprised by how fast it AF to the point I kept doubting whether it AF at all :-D

Click to expand...

Thanks - may have to give it a shot then....

digitalphotographer said:

digitalphotographer said:

One of the controls that conceptually really bugs me and has kept me on the sidelines here is the exposure comp dial on the LEFT shoulder and with a locking mechanism! I use exposure comp more on the fly than pretty much any other control on any camera and this position and the lock seem impossible to me. How have you found that? I don't think the ISO dial would bug me because I like Nikon's auto-ISO implementation more than anyone's, so I probably wouldn't be engaging the ISO dial much, but the exposure comp dial really scares me off. it

Click to expand...

With Df's excellent DR and amazing Matrix metering, better than my RX1R and GR, I haven't found myself needing to change exp comp much. But having said that, I still wish there's a hack to allow exp comp using the sub command dial, it seems the Df locks the exp comp value to whatever set by the dial.

Or maybe I just haven't found it yet. I mean there are literally dozens of menu options that I haven't fully explored, for example, I recall seeing a setting that allows combination of button pressing + command dial turning for whole bunch of functions. But this hack is in there somewhere afterall

Click to expand...

I've read a couple of reviews saying that the exposure comp can't be assigned to any other control, but maybe they just missed it too. It's true that exposure comp is getting less and less frequently necessary, but that could be a tough habit to break...

-Ray

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Please feel free to share more of the actual performance...

Thanks everyone. Always nice to hear some positive comments, good questions and tips. Will try to respond now that I just returned from a two hour full dress rehearsal where I used the Df and 70-200 lens.

For fun shooting on the street or travel I don't mind using auto iso and I can compensate as needed. However, for stage or theatrical performances I shoot manual. Cameras can be easily fooled by lighting, costumes, backgrounds, etc. For me it's just not that easy to unlock and turn the iso dial. Eliminating the lock release would make a huge difference IMHO. Nevertheless I will check out the auto iso trick.

Without going into detail, the small Df grip causes my middle finger to rub against the front sub command dial (blister)and makes it difficult to hold down the af-on button which I use exclusively to focus. Not deal breakers just annoying when compared to my D3s or D800.

Ray your question is most important - how is autofocus in low light. Tonight I shot with stage lighting and the Df felt quick and responsive in both focusing and tracking and very similar to the D800 or D3s. After tonight (stage lighting of course), my confidence level in Df focus ability went way up. Only a handful of images were out of focus and it was because of user error and small grip (my thumb came off the af-on button).

I don't know if I can answer your question in very low light. The photos at the top of this thread were shot from behind the stage in much lower light and I found the camera to focus fine, but I felt it didn't track as well. It could have been too little contrast, the 58g lens is slow or the Df sensor. I've had similar issues with tracking with my other DSLRs but it's not easy to know for certain. Sometimes we expect miracle focusing and tracking and there's a point where it just doesn't happen.

Ray, the Df focusing is reliable and faster than the Rx1. And if it does miss, it doesn't take as much time hunting as the Rx1. I tried shooting ballet with Rx1 and it only works when the dancer is performing in place. Once there is movement all bets are off.

Regarding the exposure compensation button, I don't find it difficult at all. The top release and dial are easy to operate with the left hand - much easier than the iso dial. For fun shooting in auto iso I too use the EC dial and I don't feel it slows me down at all.

So now I sit here scratching my head over the Df. I remember a movie where the girlfriend was beautiful but had hideous or large feet. The Df is kind of like that.

Here are a few images from tonight using the 70-200.



















--

Joe
www.thesmokingcamera.com

Nice shots!

Can't wait to use my Df next week!

Robert

I love the ballet! Nicely done! Is there any way to assign ISO to either the main- or sub-command dials on the Df? I shoot dual D3s bodies + f/1.4 lenses, and under available-light conditions, I'm constantly dialing my ISO up and down using the ISO button + command dial. I love the Df's retro style, but pushing its tiny ISO-release button, and turning the dial on the top-left side of the camera would really slow me down.

The Smoking Camera said:

Here are a few images from tonight using the 70-200.









--

Joe
www.thesmokingcamera.com

Click to expand...

The Df looks amazingly good in your hands, hats off to your skills shooting ballet, I've tried that, not easy at all. I also use manual mode mostly, but have found that using spotmetering and auto ISO works well if you can keep focus point on the relevant subject.

--
Renato.
OnExposure member
Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)

The Smoking Camera said:

Ray, the Df focusing is reliable and faster than the Rx1. And if it does miss, it doesn't take as much time hunting as the Rx1. I tried shooting ballet with Rx1 and it only works when the dancer is performing in place. Once there is movement all bets are off.

Regarding the exposure compensation button, I don't find it difficult at all. The top release and dial are easy to operate with the left hand - much easier than the iso dial. For fun shooting in auto iso I too use the EC dial and I don't feel it slows me down at all.

Click to expand...

Thanks Joe. I guess the state of the art for DSLR AF is just so high compared to mirrorless (the m43 gear is damn good for AF-S but not there yet for tracking) that even complaint-worthy DSLR AF is still probably amazing by my standards. Good to hear that the exposure comp wasn't a problem - it sounds like it's worth a try at the very least. I haven't shot with a camera anywhere near this large in many years and I have my doubts. But the IQ of the RX1 has spoiled me to an extent that I feel the need to check out one of the relatively smaller full frame bodies and see how the whole thing feels. If I like it, I could easily consolidate around something like this and the Nikon A for street work and become an almost all-Nikon guy. Although I think I'd probably hang onto the EM1 and a couple of longer lenses for family stuff and the rare really long telephoto stuff I do. The size advantage with m43 for long lenses in particular is pretty overwhelming. And for informal portraits, not much can beat that 75 f1.8...

The Smoking Camera said:

So now I sit here scratching my head over the Df. I remember a movie where the girlfriend was beautiful but had hideous or large feet. The Df is kind of like that.

Click to expand...

Don't look at the feet! :-D

The Smoking Camera said:

Here are a few images from tonight using the 70-200.

Click to expand...

Amazing images, yet again, with the longer lens...

-Ray
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DesertLefty said:

The Smoking Camera said:

...What I don't like is making exposure adjustments. Why the locking iso dial? Why? Hoping I get a little faster with practice.

Click to expand...

Any chance that Auto ISO could do the trick for you?

A couple of threads here have explored a (new?) trick for using Auto ISO in M mode: If you invert the minimum and maximum values for Auto ISO (by setting "Maximum ISO Sensitivity" to a lower number than "ISO Sensitivity"), then the camera will use the user-selected ISO as the ceiling for the Auto ISO range and it will use Maximum ISO as the floor - the opposite of how it usually interprets these settings. This enables you to adjust the upper-limit for Auto ISO using the ISO dial, rather than menu-diving.

Click to expand...

I am confused with this. I shoot a D800, always in M mode. I have the max iso set at 800, when I am in auto iso, which is most of the time.

If 800 won't do it for the shot, the little dots to the right of the exposure indicator in the VF come on. With practice, I know I can get a good shot out of 2 or three of them being on. (After adjusting shutter speed.) Otherwise, I simply turn auto iso off with the knob, and manually increase the iso to balance the shot.

None of these steps requires menu diving, or, for that matter, taking my eye off of the viewfinder. Seems to work well enough, and I can't think of what could make it better, as it gives me the option to go by my "dynamic range limit" in the iso ceiling.

What am I missing here?

On a D800 as well and just out on interesst .. how do you turn Auto ISO off with the knob ? I have it on a personal menu short cut .. but would prefer the knob as well ,

Thanks bjoern

ISO button & front dial

Yes. This is what I am saying. After you have done it a few times, it is second nature. You can see the change in the VF.

So if I am doing this correctly: let us say you are shooting at f2.8, 125. (Can"t go much lower hand held with a D800, sorry.) Manual mode. Your exposure meter shows you are under exposed by 3 or 4 dots.

Since you can't/don'y want to change the aperture or the shutter speed, all you can do is ISO. Push the button and move the dial with your left hand, to turn off auto-iso. Turn the dial with your right finger to move up the iso until those dots start going away. Remember to set the camera back to auto iso when you are finished!