I'm thinking of upgrading my Canon S95, and XF1 may be a candidate, now with deeply discounted price. How does the EXR technology of XF1 work - especially EXR DR, as I shoot in high DR situation a lot? It sounds like an excellent concept on paper that may win me over the competitors (RX100, S110), but the sample images that I see on review sites don't jump out as really differentiating.
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EXR technology of XF1?
- Thread starter New Daddy
- Start date
OpticsEngineer
Veteran Member
With the added technology comes some extra complexiity and the oppurtunity to actually do worse than you might have with a more simple technology.
Fortunately Kim Letkeman has a written a nice explanation of how to use it. He makes it simple and I find it works.
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/10/fuji-f70exr-how-to-shoot-it-mkii.html
I also got an XF1 when the price dropped. It is a nice camera and I am enjoying using it although I have not done any significant image quality comparisons or anything like that.
Fortunately Kim Letkeman has a written a nice explanation of how to use it. He makes it simple and I find it works.
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/10/fuji-f70exr-how-to-shoot-it-mkii.html
I also got an XF1 when the price dropped. It is a nice camera and I am enjoying using it although I have not done any significant image quality comparisons or anything like that.
I posted these a while ago. Since then I-R.com tested the S120, so you could look at that too. The XF1 is at L (large) size so it is not using the EXR hardware-based pixel blending. It still looks better in my opinion.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-s110/S110OUTBDR4P2.HTM
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/fuji-xf1/XF1OUTBDR_400.HTM
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-s110/S110OUTBDR4P2.HTM
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/fuji-xf1/XF1OUTBDR_400.HTM
New Daddy wrote:
For an unscientific demonstration (pictures taken under different dates with different cameras, but under identical lighting conditions), I offer this comparison, which I can personally attest from experience of close to 10,000 frames with these cameras is pretty typical though unscientific:. It is a scene of VERY high contrast.
Aproximate location 45.91 N, -121.91 W, taken with a Fujifilm F30, at the equivalent of DR100, using exposure lock and -0.33 EV adjustment to expose for the waterfall, and to attempt to avoid blown highlights:
Shadows blocked; but note the exposure of the moss-covered cliff behind the dog,
Taken with a Fujifilm F30, at the equivalent of DR100, using exposure lock and +1.0 EV adjustment to expose for the mammals, and to attempt to avoid blocked shadows:
Highlights completely blown, but note the exposure of the moss-covered cliff behind the dog.
Taken with a Fujifilm XF1, P[rogram] mode, M[edium] size, DR400, NO EV adjustment:
Use the level of the exposure of the moss-covered cliff as a point of reference to the two frames above.
Acknowledged that these are two different cameras, shot on two different dates; you will have to trust me that the lighting conditions eight days after the summer solstice in 2009 were the same as the lighting conditions eleven days before the summer solstice in 2013 -- they were. Further acknowledged that the brightest highlights of the waterfall were blown in the XF1 frame and the darkest shadows of the far cliffs were blocked in the XF1 frame. But -- just on the images as they stand above -- you can see that the highlights of the waterfall are no more blown in the XF1 shot than in the exposed-for-highlights F30 shot, and the shadows are no more blown in the XF1 shot than in the exposed-for-shadows F30 shot. Moreover, if you download the originals of all three of the shots above and open them in your favorite image editor, you will find that there is more latitude for adjustment in the XF1 file than in either of the DR100 shots taken with the F30.
That is what EXR technology of the XF1 can do for you in a situation where there is a very wide dynamic range.
From your "on paper" concept, one assumes that you have read the DPReview full camera reviews of both the F200EXR and the X10, in both of which reviews the technology was explained in detail. If you have not, then start there.
For an unscientific demonstration (pictures taken under different dates with different cameras, but under identical lighting conditions), I offer this comparison, which I can personally attest from experience of close to 10,000 frames with these cameras is pretty typical though unscientific:. It is a scene of VERY high contrast.
Aproximate location 45.91 N, -121.91 W, taken with a Fujifilm F30, at the equivalent of DR100, using exposure lock and -0.33 EV adjustment to expose for the waterfall, and to attempt to avoid blown highlights:
Shadows blocked; but note the exposure of the moss-covered cliff behind the dog,
Taken with a Fujifilm F30, at the equivalent of DR100, using exposure lock and +1.0 EV adjustment to expose for the mammals, and to attempt to avoid blocked shadows:
Highlights completely blown, but note the exposure of the moss-covered cliff behind the dog.
Taken with a Fujifilm XF1, P[rogram] mode, M[edium] size, DR400, NO EV adjustment:
Use the level of the exposure of the moss-covered cliff as a point of reference to the two frames above.
Acknowledged that these are two different cameras, shot on two different dates; you will have to trust me that the lighting conditions eight days after the summer solstice in 2009 were the same as the lighting conditions eleven days before the summer solstice in 2013 -- they were. Further acknowledged that the brightest highlights of the waterfall were blown in the XF1 frame and the darkest shadows of the far cliffs were blocked in the XF1 frame. But -- just on the images as they stand above -- you can see that the highlights of the waterfall are no more blown in the XF1 shot than in the exposed-for-highlights F30 shot, and the shadows are no more blown in the XF1 shot than in the exposed-for-shadows F30 shot. Moreover, if you download the originals of all three of the shots above and open them in your favorite image editor, you will find that there is more latitude for adjustment in the XF1 file than in either of the DR100 shots taken with the F30.
That is what EXR technology of the XF1 can do for you in a situation where there is a very wide dynamic range.
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Elyharbour
Veteran Member
Here's an example of what I shot within minutes of each other today as a "DR Test" (I'm still pretty new to this EXR stuff as well!)
P mode L size DR100 (re-sized to 6MP for comparison)
P Mode M size DR400
Have a look at the yacht hulls in the foreground and the white box structure in the top LH corner. Even though I've adjusted these two shots in Lightroom to pull back the highlights to show no clipping, the M size DR400 still shows more detail in these "white" areas. Now, if I'd set DR400 on L size I might have had a similar result (??) but then the ISO would have gone up to 400 as well. And that brings some issues with it. That is the benefit of the EXR hardware processing.
But, I'm still not convinced by the "one size fits all" debate that has been going on in the L vs. M wars. For low DR scenes, I feel I can pull more detail out of an L size (12MP shot), but when it's clear there is going to be a high dynamic range, I'm inclined to use the unique features of the EXR hardware process.
Hope this helps (rather than confuses)!
P mode L size DR100 (re-sized to 6MP for comparison)
P Mode M size DR400
Have a look at the yacht hulls in the foreground and the white box structure in the top LH corner. Even though I've adjusted these two shots in Lightroom to pull back the highlights to show no clipping, the M size DR400 still shows more detail in these "white" areas. Now, if I'd set DR400 on L size I might have had a similar result (??) but then the ISO would have gone up to 400 as well. And that brings some issues with it. That is the benefit of the EXR hardware processing.
But, I'm still not convinced by the "one size fits all" debate that has been going on in the L vs. M wars. For low DR scenes, I feel I can pull more detail out of an L size (12MP shot), but when it's clear there is going to be a high dynamic range, I'm inclined to use the unique features of the EXR hardware process.
Hope this helps (rather than confuses)!
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Elyharbour
Veteran Member
Sorry, let me correct myself above. I didn't adjust these two for no clipping. The M size DR400 shows minimal clipping and the L size DR100 shows a lot more. But on other images I shot at the same time, I did adjust the highlights in LR and still couldn't get the L size shot to look as good as the M size with EXR DR. But I think it helps show what happens when you go from an non-DR corrected JPEG to one DR corrected using EXR. It's quite a difference.
By the way, the problem with the high ISO DR correction method in L size, is that in the auto modes the camera bumps the F-stop up to keep the shutter speed down. So these were at F5.6, but a DR200 / ISO200 L size shot at the same time came out at F8 to keep the speed the same, and at DR400/ISO400 it's F11. I've certainly seen diffraction softness at those apertures.
On my X20 I can put on an ND fiilter to compensate for this, but not on the XF1.
By the way, the problem with the high ISO DR correction method in L size, is that in the auto modes the camera bumps the F-stop up to keep the shutter speed down. So these were at F5.6, but a DR200 / ISO200 L size shot at the same time came out at F8 to keep the speed the same, and at DR400/ISO400 it's F11. I've certainly seen diffraction softness at those apertures.
On my X20 I can put on an ND fiilter to compensate for this, but not on the XF1.
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... I live in the Tropics and the light is extremely high contrast.
I find that shooting in P mode, L size, Astia, Auto ISO 1600, DR 200% and -0.33EV is an excellent all round settings combination.
Some examples here - XF1 Edits and here - XF1 Chinatown and here - XF1 Fresh Produce
I find that shooting in P mode, L size, Astia, Auto ISO 1600, DR 200% and -0.33EV is an excellent all round settings combination.
Some examples here - XF1 Edits and here - XF1 Chinatown and here - XF1 Fresh Produce
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