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Canon 60D vs Canon Rebel t4i

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This would not be an ideal sports camera for me then? It would be nice to catch those crystal clear shots, but I wouldn't know how to do that or if it is possible with the price range that I'm looking in. So since I'm relatively new in the field, could you explain what noise is and what it looks like? With that in mind, (the pictures won't turn out great with ISO adjustments and shutter speeds higher up) does that mean a more expensive camera would be ideal? And what are the advantages to normal or natural light besides less fiddling with the ISO controls? What is a keeper rate?

Thank you!

Tim Schnell
 
So I looked up "noise in a photograph on Google, and I see what you mean. But could I still get good sport or football shots with a camera that's in my price range, like the t4i?

Thanks again for your patience with a new person!
 
Tim Schnell said:
could I still get good sport or football shots with a camera that's in my price range, like the t4i?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. In fact the T4i has better focusing than almost all of the cameras that preceded it. IQ is on par with every other current Canon crop sensor.
Tim Schnell said:
Thanks again for your patience with a new person!
Click to expand...
There's some really good leisure reading if you follow the links in this post...

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/40802533

Have fun,

R2
 
Thanks for the link to that chat! I looked at your galleries and WOW!!! Amazing pics! FYI, I'm thinking of taking shots along the lines of those Bald Eagles in flight. It seems that with the caliber of shutter speed and my budget, I could accomplish some of those along with the macro flower shots. Amazon has priced the macro lenses in the range of $350, which seems like it would fit in okay with my budget.

Would taking those shots of birds in midair be a reality with a t4i and my budget? With the 1/4000 shutter speed, it's guaranteed. But would the ISO interfere with that at all for bird/animal photography?
 
Tim Schnell said:
Thanks for the link to that chat! I looked at your galleries and WOW!!! Amazing pics!

FYI, I'm thinking of taking shots along the lines of those Bald Eagles in flight.
Click to expand...
Thanks very much. BIFs are very rewarding (largely because they're pretty hard to get!).
Tim Schnell said:
It seems that with the caliber of shutter speed and my budget, I could accomplish some of those
Click to expand...
The T4i body is entirely capable. Lenses OTOH can be the weak link.

My favorite BIF lens is the 400 f/5.6L, The 100-400 and 300 f/4L IS are also quite capable. The 70-300 IS USM (non-L) may also work well (I haven't tried one), and the 55-250 may also be a possibility, but borderline. You'd have to work quite a bit harder for shots with the entry level lenses though (lower keeper rate).
Tim Schnell said:
along with the macro flower shots. Amazon has priced the macro lenses in the range of $350, which seems like it would fit in okay with my budget.
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Yep, all macro lenses are very very good. No probs there. Really fun pastime. Always something to shoot.
Tim Schnell said:
Would taking those shots of birds in midair be a reality with a t4i and my budget?
Click to expand...
Don't recall what your lens budget was. I'd highly recommend eventually saving up for one of the L lenses for BIFs.
Tim Schnell said:
With the 1/4000 shutter speed, it's guaranteed.
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Like I mentioned earlier regarding shutter speed and sports, you'll almost never get your shutter speed that high. IME once you're up to about 1/2500 second, it's better to start lowering your ISO after that, instead of continuing to increase your shutter speed (law of diminishing returns).
Tim Schnell said:
But would the ISO interfere with that at all for bird/animal photography?
Click to expand...
I start at ISO 400. If I'm starting to get blur, then I'll grudgingly increase my ISO (noisy images are better than blurry ones).

Keep reading through those links. It'll explain a lot.

R2
 
Tim Schnell said:
And you mentioned this earlier, but what is a keeper rate?
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Sorry about that. In this context it would be the percentage of well-focused shots (frames) relative to the total number of shots taken. Generally the tougher your AF subject/conditions, the lower your keeper rate.

R2
 
I think I get it. You said "My keeper rate increases with each step up in shutter speed, then plateaus at about 1/2500 second", and that means that anything above 2500 isn't all that focused? So you want the shutter speed to be fast, but not too fast, so that the subject is still in focus.
 
Tim Schnell said:
I think I get it. You said "My keeper rate increases with each step up in shutter speed, then plateaus at about 1/2500 second", and that means that anything above 2500 isn't all that focused?
Click to expand...
"Plateaus" would actually mean that it stays the same, not that it drops off. Focus accuracy generally keeps on improving as the light gets better (improving your keeper rate).
Tim Schnell said:
So you want the shutter speed to be fast, but not too fast, so that the subject is still in focus.
Click to expand...
I should have explained this better, as it's primarily camera shake and subject motion blur that improve with faster shutter speeds (and focusing accuracy is improved along side that due to the higher light levels encountered).

Normally one would need to bump up their ISO in order to increase shutter speeds to combat camera shake and subject motion blur. But once the shutter speed is high enough to conquer that blur (usually when light levels improve), you are better off reducing your ISO (to reduce noise) than to keep increasing your shutter speeds.

So in my example regarding birds in flight, I don't really see any further reduction in blur as my shutter speeds increase beyond 1/2500 sec (meaning my keeper rate doesn't improve any further). However I'll benefit from improved noise levels if I start to reduce my ISO Instead.

Hope this makes things a little clearer.

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
 
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Looks like you're already getting good information but I'll interject one point. There are times when freezing sports action with a high shutter speed is good but many sports shots are better if instead of a static shot if you learn to pan to freeze a main subject but leave motion blur of the ... ball, legs, arms, background, etc. with a slower shutter speed.
 
Yes, try to pan the action so that the subjects face/helmets are sharp but the legs or the arms and especially the ball are showing motion. There are times that frozen, static images are good but often, the shot with motion has better impact.

When shooting something like a cycle race, freezing the spokes and the background will look okay but panning at a slower shutter speed so that the face of the cylist is sharp but the wheels are blurred as well as the background has better visual drama.

Same with airshows, fast shutter will freeze the action but a shutter speed that shows prop blur is generally better.

There are times that fast shutter is needed/desired but I just wanted to comment that often, slower shutter is more desirable. I wanted to bring this up as you commented many times about fast shutter.
 
Panning is moving the camera with the subject. It takes practice to get it right. The biggest tip I can give is to follow-through with the shot. It's similar advice to a golfer's swing or all shooting sports. Don't stop moving the camera after the shutter has been engaged, continue following the subject with the viewfinder for a second or so after the button has been engaged.

Matter of fact, learning to follow through the shot is arguably the greatest tip for getting sharp images and is not restricted to panning situations only. You might notice that many amateur point&shoot (and particularly cell) images suffer motion blur. This is typically because the person taking the picture is dropping the camera prematurely after pressing the shutter. Try to train yourself to hold the camera steady (following-through) for a half-a-second or so after engaging the shutter before lowering.
 
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