A70 sensor alignment

Is this defect worth returning the camera for another piece ? Also does anyone know if this defect is transferred to the file or is it just on the LCD ??

Thanks

Manish
I took an image of the camera through a mirror and as you can see
the camera is not aligned with the frame of the picture. No matter
how you turn the camera this misalignment doesn't seem to go away.
Any comments ?

 
I took an image of the camera through a mirror and as you can see
the camera is not aligned with the frame of the picture. No matter
how you turn the camera this misalignment doesn't seem to go away.
Any comments ?

hello guys,
i bought my A70 a few days ago and i am really pleased so far.But i don't
understand what the "alignment problem" is,or what i should be looking for?
can someone explain better what it means?
 
with some canon cameras recently people have started to notice sloping horizons in pictures,this is caued by the ccd being fitted tilted,this in itself is not major as you can view through lcd and get straight horizons,the question is ?if the ccd is tilted sideways .who is to say it is not tilted in any other plane,my a70 with tilted ccd had major focusing problem wheras the replacement had a level ccd and perfect focusing,could these problems be related,maybe this could be caused by rough handling? from the factory,who knows?
I took an image of the camera through a mirror and as you can see
the camera is not aligned with the frame of the picture. No matter
how you turn the camera this misalignment doesn't seem to go away.
Any comments ?

hello guys,
i bought my A70 a few days ago and i am really pleased so far.But i
don't
understand what the "alignment problem" is,or what i should be
looking for?
can someone explain better what it means?
 
.... and don't go nuts. We all need to know more than we do at the moment. It's easy for us to trick ourselves into seeing something that's not there. Even a slight tilt in the way we hold the camera can show up as something we imagine is a defect. Minor adjustments can get magnified. Thus, the best simple test is one where we know the camera is perfectly level - in all planes - and pointed straight at a grid (just like Phil does). What I mean to say is that a camera leveled perfectly in all planes and then rotated horizontally on one plane - just a few degrees - will appear to give the defect first identified in this thread.

If you have time to wait before you return it, I suggest you wait and follow this thread to see what others find. In addition, try to see what how your camera performs - out of your hands - on a tripd aimed as I suggest above.

Paul
I also found last night that my A70 has the same sensor problem. I
am going to take it back to Fry's tonight. What a bummer....

Manish
 
you can hold a camera upside down and take a picture in a mirror and the camera will still look the same, if the ccd is level the reflection will be level .if the ccd is tilted the reflection will be tilted,every picture will be identical ,either all level or all tilted
If you have time to wait before you return it, I suggest you wait
and follow this thread to see what others find. In addition, try to
see what how your camera performs - out of your hands - on a tripd
aimed as I suggest above.

Paul
I also found last night that my A70 has the same sensor problem. I
am going to take it back to Fry's tonight. What a bummer....

Manish
 
What I did was I placed the camera on the granite island in the kitchen. I assumed that the island is pretty flat. Then I clicked a picture of the edge of the granite island and what I saw was that the edge was tilted in the LCD image. Now is this a good test ?

Manish
If you have time to wait before you return it, I suggest you wait
and follow this thread to see what others find. In addition, try to
see what how your camera performs - out of your hands - on a tripd
aimed as I suggest above.

Paul
I also found last night that my A70 has the same sensor problem. I
am going to take it back to Fry's tonight. What a bummer....

Manish
 
I didn't fully appreciate that Marios' picture was a test. Wonderful concept and I thank you for teaching it to us. I took a picture as you described and I can't see a meaningful enough difference (if there is any at all) to be concerned.

Again. What a great idea. Thank you!

Manish - it works. Hope you got your result this way. If not, try it.

Paul (PS - Tony ... Rather than hold the camera upside down, I hung myself by the feet from a light fixture. Should it matter?)
If you have time to wait before you return it, I suggest you wait
and follow this thread to see what others find. In addition, try to
see what how your camera performs - out of your hands - on a tripd
aimed as I suggest above.

Paul
I also found last night that my A70 has the same sensor problem. I
am going to take it back to Fry's tonight. What a bummer....

Manish
 
Paul,

But I don't understand that in the mirror test how do you make sure that
the camera in your hands is level ? Don't your hands move slightly when

you press the trigger ? Then how can you be sure of the tilt ? Shouldn't you place a camera on some flat surface so that your hand movements don't affect the result ?

Thanks

Manish
Again. What a great idea. Thank you!

Manish - it works. Hope you got your result this way. If not, try it.

Paul (PS - Tony ... Rather than hold the camera upside down, I hung
myself by the feet from a light fixture. Should it matter?)
If you have time to wait before you return it, I suggest you wait
and follow this thread to see what others find. In addition, try to
see what how your camera performs - out of your hands - on a tripd
aimed as I suggest above.

Paul
I also found last night that my A70 has the same sensor problem. I
am going to take it back to Fry's tonight. What a bummer....

Manish
 
i always use the light fixture method ,just remember always wear a helmet

regards

Tony
Again. What a great idea. Thank you!

Manish - it works. Hope you got your result this way. If not, try it.

Paul (PS - Tony ... Rather than hold the camera upside down, I hung
myself by the feet from a light fixture. Should it matter?)
If you have time to wait before you return it, I suggest you wait
and follow this thread to see what others find. In addition, try to
see what how your camera performs - out of your hands - on a tripd
aimed as I suggest above.

Paul
I also found last night that my A70 has the same sensor problem. I
am going to take it back to Fry's tonight. What a bummer....

Manish
 
Manish,

You and I did the same sort of test. That's why I cautioned you against trusting the results. At first, all I could think of was something similar to what Phil and others would do (that is, from what I've read of his/their camera tests). I didn't fully appreciate what Marios had done until Tony pointed it out to me.

It's simple.

Point the camera at a mirror.

Hold it at any angle, even upside down - bit make an attempt to photograph the front of the camera not it's side. (But, if you figure out how to photograph it's side using one mirror - please tell us).

Zoom in so what you see of the camera isn't very far away (so as to not think about it, take several shots at different zoom distances - all that matters is that the camera is in the picture, and takes up most if it, but not all of it). It doesn't matter if yiou use the LCD or the eyepiece.

In the pictrure, the edge of the CCD becomes the edge of the picture (i.e., the frame) In order words, you don't need another object than the camera itself.

If the CCD is misaligned, then the distance around the outer edge of the camera in the picture and the edge of the picture of the camera will not be uniform.

If you do this hanging by your feet from a light fixture, follow Tony's suggestion and wear a helmet ;-)

Let us know what you find.

Paul
Manish
If you have time to wait before you return it, I suggest you wait
and follow this thread to see what others find. In addition, try to
see what how your camera performs - out of your hands - on a tripd
aimed as I suggest above.

Paul
I also found last night that my A70 has the same sensor problem. I
am going to take it back to Fry's tonight. What a bummer....

Manish
 
This is amazing!

Can someone do a ray trace diagram for us? Just shows you how poor more my light-physics instincts are?I find this completely counter-intuitive and absolutely freaky. Hold the camera at a 45o angle and Voila! Straight camera image with the top of the frame!

Say, that was so exciting, I'm going to go try it again. Please wait a minute?

I'm back. Even hold it at a 90o angle works, but the 45 diagonal is the best one!

This was with a Kodak DX 3900 and the camera image is perfectly aligned--well, actually, I don't know that yet as I've only looked at the pics on the LCD screen.

So, is the ultimate test of the sensor alignment (and perhaps even focusing) problem with the A-series cameras?
 
but that's exactly the beauty of this test !

try it and no matter how you hold the camera the tilt is the same (assuming that the sensor is missaligned of course).

what you need to pay attention to is the tilt between the rectangle of the body of the camera and the rectangle of the frame of the picture.

isn't it awesome ? :)
Paul,

But I don't understand that in the mirror test how do you make sure
that
the camera in your hands is level ? Don't your hands move slightly
when
you press the trigger ? Then how can you be sure of the tilt ?
Shouldn't you place a camera on some flat surface so that your hand
movements don't affect the result ?

Thanks

Manish
 
... of course is that I decided to keep the camera even with this issue. I was tired of exchanging them. After returning the G3, the S45 and a couple of A70 I was sold ...

I love my misaligned A70 !

ps
to all the greeks out there:
" 'H stravos einai o gialos, 'h strava armenizoume" :)
 
It's a great camera. I learned I don't know how to work it yet.

Here you go again, starting another topic that will pick up a life of its own. Tell us. What the h*ll is " 'H stravos einai o gialos, 'h strava armenizoume" ?

Paul
... of course is that I decided to keep the camera even with this
issue. I was tired of exchanging them. After returning the G3, the
S45 and a couple of A70 I was sold ...

I love my misaligned A70 !

ps
to all the greeks out there:
" 'H stravos einai o gialos, 'h strava armenizoume" :)
 
I did the mirror test and found the same tilt as Marios. I don't have the
image to post right now but believe me the tilt is the same as Marios
found. The mirror test is amazing.

I guess I have to go now to exchange my camera.

Manish
You and I did the same sort of test. That's why I cautioned you
against trusting the results. At first, all I could think of was
something similar to what Phil and others would do (that is, from
what I've read of his/their camera tests). I didn't fully
appreciate what Marios had done until Tony pointed it out to me.

It's simple.

Point the camera at a mirror.

Hold it at any angle, even upside down - bit make an attempt to
photograph the front of the camera not it's side. (But, if you
figure out how to photograph it's side using one mirror - please
tell us).

Zoom in so what you see of the camera isn't very far away (so as to
not think about it, take several shots at different zoom distances
  • all that matters is that the camera is in the picture, and takes
up most if it, but not all of it). It doesn't matter if yiou use
the LCD or the eyepiece.

In the pictrure, the edge of the CCD becomes the edge of the
picture (i.e., the frame) In order words, you don't need another
object than the camera itself.

If the CCD is misaligned, then the distance around the outer edge
of the camera in the picture and the edge of the picture of the
camera will not be uniform.

If you do this hanging by your feet from a light fixture, follow
Tony's suggestion and wear a helmet ;-)

Let us know what you find.

Paul
Manish
If you have time to wait before you return it, I suggest you wait
and follow this thread to see what others find. In addition, try to
see what how your camera performs - out of your hands - on a tripd
aimed as I suggest above.

Paul
I also found last night that my A70 has the same sensor problem. I
am going to take it back to Fry's tonight. What a bummer....

Manish
 
people i have read al the posts here and i must say tou you all, that's not a major problem! what is the problem that your camera isn't aligned with the ccd... NO PROBLEM!! AT ALL!! what matters is that the image on the ccd is the one that it really captures...do you get me??? No camera is perfectly aligned, if you exchange it maybe your new camera is worst...and have other problems....AND I DON'T SEE what the alignment of the ccd has to do with focus of zoom lens!!??? lets supose the ccd is in diagonal position the it wouldn't have the influence with the zoom and focus of the lens...... remember the only thing that ccd does is the same as the old film cameras and that is record the light when the diafragma opens up.........

what do you tink??????????????'

Dont' be too nervous on finding a defect and enjoy your camera.... or... the final purpose... the images!!

Diego freitas ( [email protected])
 
Even Marios decided to keep his "misaligned" camera. In his case, he made the decision out of exhaustion of having returned other cameras. In my case, I decided that if there is a mislignment it wan't as noticeable as we saw in Marios' picture. It's really a matter of degree and, aesthetically, what one an live with. In other words, if it doesn't jump out and bite you, it doesn't matter if it has teeth.

Paul
people i have read al the posts here and i must say tou you all,
that's not a major problem! what is the problem that your camera
isn't aligned with the ccd... NO PROBLEM!! AT ALL!! what matters is
that the image on the ccd is the one that it really captures...do
you get me??? No camera is perfectly aligned, if you exchange it
maybe your new camera is worst...and have other problems....AND I
DON'T SEE what the alignment of the ccd has to do with focus of
zoom lens!!??? lets supose the ccd is in diagonal position the it
wouldn't have the influence with the zoom and focus of the
lens...... remember the only thing that ccd does is the same as the
old film cameras and that is record the light when the diafragma
opens up.........

what do you tink??????????????'

Dont' be too nervous on finding a defect and enjoy your camera....
or... the final purpose... the images!!

Diego freitas ( [email protected])
 
As I wrote in a previous message I decided to keep the misaligned camera anyway. The main reason was that I never had a problem with real life pictures.

The purpose of the test was more philosophical. Come on, haven't you seen that famous aluminum foil test for chromatic aberations (CA)? Don't tell me that you are going to go out shoot images like that?

Likewise the mirror test was ment to be a good test for sensor misalignment cause this topic received a lot of attention recently.
That's all.

A70 rules !
people i have read al the posts here and i must say tou you all,
that's not a major problem! what is the problem that your camera
isn't aligned with the ccd... NO PROBLEM!! AT ALL!! what matters is
that the image on the ccd is the one that it really captures...do
you get me??? No camera is perfectly aligned, if you exchange it
maybe your new camera is worst...and have other problems....AND I
DON'T SEE what the alignment of the ccd has to do with focus of
zoom lens!!??? lets supose the ccd is in diagonal position the it
wouldn't have the influence with the zoom and focus of the
lens...... remember the only thing that ccd does is the same as the
old film cameras and that is record the light when the diafragma
opens up.........

what do you tink??????????????'

Dont' be too nervous on finding a defect and enjoy your camera....
or... the final purpose... the images!!

Diego freitas ( [email protected])
 
For point and shot (PS) cameras.

1. Between sensor and camera body.

This is the one this test is for. It doesn't really affect the image you get as long as you compose your pictures with the liquid crystal display (LCD). When you compose your image, your hands rotate the camera and unconsiously adjust for any missalignements. You don't really care or feel it if at the moment you press the shuter your hands are tilted by 5 degrees.

I think that the same stands for tripods. Now if you place the camera on perfect level table then it might affect the image but what table is perfectly level to begin with ?

2. Between camera body and optical viewfinder (OVF)

This one is more serious. Even if the OVF is aligned with the body of the camera then if (1) is problematic, the picture you see from the OVF is NOT the image you get on the joint motion pictures group (JPEG) file. What this means is that if any of (1) or (2) tilts exist then the OVF is not reliable anymore. To me that is a problem.

Of course some people will argue that no one composes through the OVF but then again those people probably own the G3 which has a part of the lens, some buttons, a battery and who knows what else artistically placed in front of the OVF to make it really annoying to use.

-m
 

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