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This should prove interesting. (FZ200, FZ150, FZ28)

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Ron,

I'll try those settings. And the search continues. I took a number of shots with my settings on a cruise from New York to Quebec. We stopped in Bar Harbor, Maine and took a shore excursion to Acadia National Park.



Sculpture on top of a local bar. I waited for the cloud to get behind it
Sculpture on top of a local bar. I waited for the cloud to get behind it



A shot along side the road on top of Cadillac Mt. Highest point on the eastern seaboard.
A shot along side the road on top of Cadillac Mt. Highest point on the eastern seaboard.



Bar Harbor waterfront. The orange tenders really are that color.
Bar Harbor waterfront. The orange tenders really are that color.

I posted these same three shots over on the Canon Powershot forum to allay claims that the FZ200 was "soft".

I am sorry to have to send back the FZ28. I certainly don't need three superzooms; but it's nice looking in silver, smaller and lighter than the other two, and took very sharp images for me. The FZ28 was my first Panasonic, and a very good experience. I used my black FZ28 with a Flip-bac mirror. It mounts over the LCD and hinges at the left side, or the bottom. It protects the LCD and gives most of the benefit of a fully articulated LCD, except that the mirror reverses the image. That takes a few minutes of use to get used to; but after that gives most of the utility of an hinged LCD for low angle shots, and waist level stealth shots; but doesn't work for overheads.

--
Jerry
 
GeraldW said:
Ron,

Might the difference in the bricks be due to less depth of field in the FZ200? It's at f/2.8, and the others are f/3.4 and 3.7.

The FZ28 is going back today; but I can compare the other two at the same f/#.
Click to expand...
 
Ronomy said:
I still think Panasonic needs to tweak the firmware on this camera. The jpg results are not consistent from image to image even pointed at the same subject. Some are clean and sharp and some have smudging and some have more noise. This doesn't happen with my LX7 and I use the high ires setting on that camera too.
Click to expand...
In addition to the JPEG engine, a few other tweaks would be nice - especially since this model wasn't refreshed this year. Please, save the spot focus size and self-timer settings between use and on power cycle. I'd also like the dual-image review feature.

I also have a lengthy list of additional features I'd like to see but can wait for the FZ250...

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter
 
Last edited:
Ron,

If you recall my history with the FZ200, this camera is my third. The first was purchased right after introduction, and it's images were inconsistent. Fortunately, they held up often enough that our trip to the Galapagos was not spoiled. The second one was better than thre first in terms of consistency; but could have been better, and it was defeated in a head to head comparison to the FZ150. The third one was significantly better than the other two, and I feel behaved differently. At the very least, it's much more consistent. So maybe Panasonic did make some running changes?
 
Ron, I just went back and looked at the tiger shot. The bricks and fire screen are blurred, yet the area around the eye is very good - there is a whisker just above the eye with a split end, and you can make that out clearly. The only way I can think of would be rotation of the camera around the lens axis. The shots were all hand held. So later, I take another shot on a tripod.
 
Ron,

I've taken a bunch of shots with the FZ200. My criteria for sharpness and detail resolution is the ability to resolve the split ends on the whisker directly above the tiger's eye. When the FZ150 can resolve 5 "ends" to the whisker, the bricks are soft with it as well. The FZ200 (after many shots) can only resolve 3 ends; and the FZ28 doesn't see any, and the bricks are sharp. Since the FZ28 is already on its way back to the seller, I can't check it again.

At this point, the conclusion I have to make is that the FZ150 is the best of the three for detail resolution, sharpness, and even color. It came less hood, and i ordered a replacement today. A nice girl helped me out; but the process was interminable, and the cost for a plastic molding was high at $25. Almost $38 dollars, shipped. Happily, I had an Olympus neck strap that fit perfectly. The strap lugs on the FZ150 are narrower than the FZ200's, and most DSLR straps won't fit through.

I still have to check out your settings. Maybe tomorrow.

What a great hobby digital has made photography! We can share photos across the pond, I can take numbers of shots and check them on my PC in seconds, and I can PP them in daylight at my leisure.

Best Regards,
 
GeraldW said:
Ron,

I've taken a bunch of shots with the FZ200. My criteria for sharpness and detail resolution is the ability to resolve the split ends on the whisker directly above the tiger's eye. When the FZ150 can resolve 5 "ends" to the whisker, the bricks are soft with it as well. The FZ200 (after many shots) can only resolve 3 ends; and the FZ28 doesn't see any, and the bricks are sharp. Since the FZ28 is already on its way back to the seller, I can't check it again.

At this point, the conclusion I have to make is that the FZ150 is the best of the three for detail resolution, sharpness, and even color. It came less hood, and i ordered a replacement today. A nice girl helped me out; but the process was interminable, and the cost for a plastic molding was high at $25. Almost $38 dollars, shipped. Happily, I had an Olympus neck strap that fit perfectly. The strap lugs on the FZ150 are narrower than the FZ200's, and most DSLR straps won't fit through.

I still have to check out your settings. Maybe tomorrow.

What a great hobby digital has made photography! We can share photos across the pond, I can take numbers of shots and check them on my PC in seconds, and I can PP them in daylight at my leisure.

Best Regards,
Click to expand...
 
THe FZ150/FZ200 comparison with those settings is coming. We're traveling today to Erie, PA to watch our grandaughter's college hockey game. A little over 2 hrs drive each way in wintery conditions, so I'll not be home in time to run the test. But it's on the agenda for Saturday afternoon - I'm curious, too.

Watch for my post tomorrow.
 
Ron,

Here's four more shots. The FZ200 was set to NR-2, Sh -1 & NO iRes.



FZ150, ISO 100
FZ150, ISO 100



FZ200, ISO 100
FZ200, ISO 100



FZ150, ISO 800
FZ150, ISO 800



FZ200, ISO 800
FZ200, ISO 800

Note how similar the color of the tiger's are. That's with Amber +2 on the FZ200.

I do think you're on to something with those settings. At least at center, the resolution of the FZ200 equals the FZ150 at ISO 100. The tiger shot at center shows the split ends on the whisker above the eye just a hair (no pun intended) more clearly on the FZ150; but that could be shake, as all shots are hand held. Another area I look at is the longer heair coming out of the ruff that descends from his ear and down around his jaw. In that ruff, there is a group of longer black fibers, that often get eroded by noise. In both shots, they are clear and sharp.

On a semi-related subject, there are several posts on the Canon Powershot Forum about the look of shots from the Canon S120 and also the SX260. Some of the comments are reminiscent of our discussions last winter about settings on the FZ200. One thing they noticed was that adding a little in-camera sharpening worsened the noise a lot. I have not had that experience with earlier Canons, and I've had quite a few.

--
Jerry
 
GeraldW said:
Ron,

Here's four more shots. The FZ200 was set to NR-2, Sh -1 & NO iRes.

FZ150, ISO 100
FZ150, ISO 100

FZ200, ISO 100
FZ200, ISO 100

FZ150, ISO 800
FZ150, ISO 800

FZ200, ISO 800
FZ200, ISO 800

Note how similar the color of the tiger's are. That's with Amber +2 on the FZ200.

I do think you're on to something with those settings. At least at center, the resolution of the FZ200 equals the FZ150 at ISO 100. The tiger shot at center shows the split ends on the whisker above the eye just a hair (no pun intended) more clearly on the FZ150; but that could be shake, as all shots are hand held. Another area I look at is the longer heair coming out of the ruff that descends from his ear and down around his jaw. In that ruff, there is a group of longer black fibers, that often get eroded by noise. In both shots, they are clear and sharp.

On a semi-related subject, there are several posts on the Canon Powershot Forum about the look of shots from the Canon S120 and also the SX260. Some of the comments are reminiscent of our discussions last winter about settings on the FZ200. One thing they noticed was that adding a little in-camera sharpening worsened the noise a lot. I have not had that experience with earlier Canons, and I've had quite a few.

--
Jerry
Click to expand...
Hi Jerry,

They are much closer but you're right. The FZ150 is a tad sharper. Actually think the FZ150 has more noise but you have to look close to see the difference. So the FZ200 is smudging a tad more due to more noise reduction. The bricks and some parts of the fur are still softer looking at 100% in the FZ200 image. Other than that they look very very close.

You can turn on ires with these same settings and sometimes ires on and off don't look much different. ires on is a little sharper but sometimes it smudges more as light levels drop. If you don't want smudging turn ires off like when shooting at dusk. Any outdoor scenery now I just turn ires off and when i want to use izoom I have a C2 setting that turns on izoom and raw file output.

Ron

Ron
 
We visited the Antarctica two years ago with a Nikon D90 and FZ150. The photos from the FZ150 were splendid, as were those from the D90. I now have a FZ200 and wish I'd had it then. For protection, I just "hid it" either under my coat or in a waterproof camera bag. Surprisingly, it isn't that cold! The temperature never got much below 25F (or above 30F), and winds are often virtually non-existent.

You will LOVE your trip!
 
You also have to remember that the shots of Sher Khan (from Kipling's Jungle Books) are at ISO 800; right at the end of both camera's "comfort zone". If you haven't already, take a look at the resolution charts.

What I se is those charts, is equal resolution on the line pairs at center. Those numbers are line pairs per mm and can be converted to resolution numbers that match the review sites by photographing so that the 8.5" dimension fills the frame top to bottom. That's 215.9 mm. Multiply by the resolution number on the chart (5.0, for example) x 215.9 = 1079.5 x 2 = 2129. The x2 is because they count line pairs differently.

Anyhow, the FZ150 and FZ200 come up with the same resolution at center; but the FZ150 is a little better in the corners. However, the corner softenss on the FZ200 doesn't extend far into the frame and it isn't really bad.

Next, look at the two pictures on the chart. To me, it looks like the FZ200 does a better job of showing the grid in the shots. Both do OK on the lower resolution image at 88 dots per inch; but the FZ200 shows the 133 dot grid better. The FZ150 shows some color patches in the 88 line image, and I wonder if that's moire'.. The FZ200 is much cleaner and it might have a tighter anti moire' filter.

As of this moment, I'm pretty pleased with the new settings you suggested. If you compare the shutter speeds and f/#'s in the test target and tiger shots, you'll get a good idea of just how dark the tiger lighting is. That Sher Khan looks as good as he does tells me the camera is doing very well at ISO 800, and especially so for a small sensor.

I thought this was going tobe fun.

Best Regards,
 
Thanks for the post. That's helpful info. The temperatures here in northern Ohio are in that same range right now, so we have the clothes for it.

We did a cruise from Valparaiso, Chile to Buenos Aires some years ago. Ushaia was 46 degrees with a 40 MPH wind; but sunny. Wind gusts were strong enough to pick spray up off the flat surface of the bay. Next day we rounded Cape Horn at 6:30 AM, and headed for the Falklands. At around 2 PM that afternoon we ran into a storm with 70 knot (80 MPH) winds and mountainous waves. I'm hoping we don't run into another one of those.
 
GeraldW said:
You also have to remember that the shots of Sher Khan (from Kipling's Jungle Books) are at ISO 800; right at the end of both camera's "comfort zone". If you haven't already, take a look at the resolution charts.

What I se is those charts, is equal resolution on the line pairs at center. Those numbers are line pairs per mm and can be converted to resolution numbers that match the review sites by photographing so that the 8.5" dimension fills the frame top to bottom. That's 215.9 mm. Multiply by the resolution number on the chart (5.0, for example) x 215.9 = 1079.5 x 2 = 2129. The x2 is because they count line pairs differently.

Anyhow, the FZ150 and FZ200 come up with the same resolution at center; but the FZ150 is a little better in the corners. However, the corner softenss on the FZ200 doesn't extend far into the frame and it isn't really bad.

Next, look at the two pictures on the chart. To me, it looks like the FZ200 does a better job of showing the grid in the shots. Both do OK on the lower resolution image at 88 dots per inch; but the FZ200 shows the 133 dot grid better. The FZ150 shows some color patches in the 88 line image, and I wonder if that's moire'.. The FZ200 is much cleaner and it might have a tighter anti moire' filter.

As of this moment, I'm pretty pleased with the new settings you suggested. If you compare the shutter speeds and f/#'s in the test target and tiger shots, you'll get a good idea of just how dark the tiger lighting is. That Sher Khan looks as good as he does tells me the camera is doing very well at ISO 800, and especially so for a small sensor.

I thought this was going tobe fun.

Best Regards,
Click to expand...
 
GeraldW said:
Thanks for the post. That's helpful info. The temperatures here in northern Ohio are in that same range right now, so we have the clothes for it.

We did a cruise from Valparaiso, Chile to Buenos Aires some years ago. Ushaia was 46 degrees with a 40 MPH wind; but sunny. Wind gusts were strong enough to pick spray up off the flat surface of the bay. Next day we rounded Cape Horn at 6:30 AM, and headed for the Falklands. At around 2 PM that afternoon we ran into a storm with 70 knot (80 MPH) winds and mountainous waves. I'm hoping we don't run into another one of those.
Click to expand...
 
Ron,

On that cruise, we had booked a cabin on deck 3 in anticipation of bad weather - as Cape Horn and that area are notorious for storms and rough seas. That was on the original Royal Princess on Princess Cruise Lines. 795' long, 1200 passengers, and all outside cabins, so the superstructure tapered in as it went up. Reportedly the most sea worthy ship in their fleet. Deck 3 was about 30' above the waterline, and we had green water over our windows at times. It wasn't steerage, as deck 3 had the Atrium and Purser's desk and the main dining room, the few cabins forward of the Purser's desk were actually a little upscale compared to deck 4, and it was the primary deck for embarkation and debarkation in port. A very convenient location.

We met some folks on the ship who had booked a cabin on deck 7. We saw them at breakfast in the Falklands and asked how they had made out during the night. They didn't get sea sick, but had to hold on to the bed to keep from being thrown onto the floor. Lots of broken dishes, and several injuries from falls. Makes a great story looking back on it.
 
Wow! Stressed out on vacation...nice! LOL. Although like you said...looking back it was quite the experience. Great if you had some video of that.
 
I took several snaps with a new FZ200 and my old FZ28. Not only did I NOT find the FZ200 IQ any better than that of the FZ28, in many of my (admittedly unscientific) tests and rough real-life comparisons, the FZ28 actually produced better images.

I took several hand-held photos at different ISO's and lighting conditions in order to choose the best image of any scene, regardless of ISO, aperture, shutter speed and so on. The best ones from both for this specific image happened to be at ISO 800. The FZ200 is at F2.8 at a focal length of 108 mm with a shutter speed of 1/40s. The numbers for the FZ28 are F4.4, 76 mm, 1/30s.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/2011715492/photos/2783444/p1000042-c1






FZ200

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/2011715492/photos/2783443/p1010750-c1




FZ28

This one may be extreme, but in all my other test shots under various lighting conditions and test subjects, I never found any FZ200 shot to be better. In most of the other shots, the FZ200 was just about the same as the FZ28, and it was the above shots here that made me decide to return the FZ200 because the constant F2.8 was supposed to shine in low light and at long focal lengths which I failed to see first hand.
 

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Not sure I get it. You prefer the FZ200 image? You can't read a thing in that shot whereas the FZ28 is crystal-clear.
 
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