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D700 vs D3s.

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RobG67

RobG67

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Hey all,

quick question for those who know and have used BOTH of these cameras for shooting indoor sports.

Is the D3s a worthwhile upgrade over the D700 in regard to focus performance and high ISO quality?

I have a couple of D700s and although they're pretty darn fine, I've recently started shooting indoor sports and would really like faster AF, and any improvement in low light ISO would also be welcome, not that the D700 is a dog there. I have the lenses to work in low light and can usually manage to hang flashes on the walls, but can't always count on it. The frame rate increase isn't a big selling point, BTW, mostly I just want the better focus.

I'd love a D4, but although I can afford it, I can't justify the expense at this point.

That's it - pass on your user experiences please.

Thanks.
 
I have both but haven't used the D3S for sports. At the very least it'll be a draw on focus. It's an extra stop on low light performance.
 
RobG67 said:
Is the D3s a worthwhile upgrade over the D700 in regard to focus performance and high ISO quality?
Click to expand...
Yes, it is worth it; the differences at high gain settings are significant. The D3/D700 has problems with pattern noise and blooming artifacts at and above ISO6400. The D3s has no such problems.

If you blow a single pixel on the D3/D700, there is blooming across the entire frame along that row of pixels. In a dark scene, at high gain, you will see streaking. It's almost impossible to fix without hours of painstaking work.

If you try to go above ISO6400 on the D3/D700, you will start to see banding. This is also pretty much impossible to fix.

All this was fixed in the D3s. ISO 12800 is very usable. ISO 25600 is usable for moody shots with some finesse. I did some shots at ISO 25600 with a single blue lightbulb off in the distance, yielding mainly blue channel signal. Suited the mood and made for a very usable shot.
 
RobG67 said:
Hey all,

quick question for those who know and have used BOTH of these cameras for shooting indoor sports.

Is the D3s a worthwhile upgrade over the D700 in regard to focus performance and high ISO quality?
Click to expand...
If shooting under about ISO 3200, I wouldn't bother with the D3s, above that you'll see some improvement. Whether it is significant enough for you to be worth the cost, you should decide for yourself. IMO, D700 AF is top notch, not sure you'll see much improvement with the D3s in AF, I don't.
RobG67 said:
I have a couple of D700s and although they're pretty darn fine, I've recently started shooting indoor sports and would really like faster AF, and any improvement in low light ISO would also be welcome, not that the D700 is a dog there. I have the lenses to work in low light and can usually manage to hang flashes on the walls, but can't always count on it. The frame rate increase isn't a big selling point, BTW, mostly I just want the better focus.

I'd love a D4, but although I can afford it, I can't justify the expense at this point.

That's it - pass on your user experiences please.

Thanks.

--
http://longestjokeintheworld.com/
Click to expand...
 
RobG67 said:
quick question for those who know and have used BOTH of these cameras for shooting indoor sports.

Is the D3s a worthwhile upgrade over the D700 in regard to focus performance and high ISO quality?
Click to expand...
Regarding AF, I disagree with some of the other posters on this thread. The D3s has faster processors than the D700, and for sports photography, I'm sure you will notice that difference. In addition, newer pro lenses starting with the 70-200 VR II have additional AF optimizations which require a D3s or D4 to benefit from. I've run objective AF-performance tests with the D700, D3 and D3s, and there is a definite advantage with the D3s.

Regarding high ISO image quality, I've used the D3s extensively in the ISO 4000-5000 range with very good results; that's not a range that I would feel comfortable using with a D3 (equiv. to D700).

Used D3s prices can be reasonable, making it an attractive upgrade.
 
RobG67 said:
Hey all,

quick question for those who know and have used BOTH of these cameras for shooting indoor sports.

Is the D3s a worthwhile upgrade over the D700 in regard to focus performance and high ISO quality?

I have a couple of D700s and although they're pretty darn fine, I've recently started shooting indoor sports and would really like faster AF, and any improvement in low light ISO would also be welcome, not that the D700 is a dog there. I have the lenses to work in low light and can usually manage to hang flashes on the walls, but can't always count on it. The frame rate increase isn't a big selling point, BTW, mostly I just want the better focus.

I'd love a D4, but although I can afford it, I can't justify the expense at this point.

That's it - pass on your user experiences please.

Thanks.

--
http://longestjokeintheworld.com/
Click to expand...
I had both the D700 and D3s at the same time. I sold the D700 because it was going to be a backup and I didn't want to keep it around since the D3s was at least one stop better than the D700, lower shutter/mirror noise, high burst rate even when compare the D700 with grip. I like the D3s so much that I just could not justify keep the D700, sold it for $1300 6 months ago, just bought the D600 as a back up for better ISO than D700 and more pixels. I normally use 400mm f2.8 VR for HS football in very poor light, ISO 6400, but 2nd half I use the 70-200mm f2.8 VR to get close ups at the side line and to get some candid shots of the players. I shoot for the team so I don't have any problem being anywhere on the side line.

I would not spend the extra money for the D4. The D3s is still king under low light sports.

Lots of low light sport camera discussion here.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52542761
 
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I can only compare the D700 to the D3. The D3s will have better high ISO performance as already stated in the above posts. The AF on the D3/D3s is much better than the D700. It just locks focus faster and nails it every single time. The D700 is not bad but coming from a D700 to a D3 and having read that the two cameras basically are the same I didn't really expect that much of a difference in AF performance.

Another advantage, at least it was for me, is if you use heavy fast lenses the balance is much better. Even though my D3 is a few hundred grams heavier it actually did feel lighter in my hands due to the better (larger) grip but also because it's more well balanced with heavy lenses. You could get the battery grip for the D700 to gain the same advantage in balance although the overall feel and grip will be better with the built in grip.

So for indoor and low light sports photography you will definitely be happy with the D3s.
 
I never owned the D700, but D3s high ISO noise (for me above 1600 ISO) is significantly better than the D3.

The D3s being pro grade does many things a little quicker than the D700.

The D3s AF marked a change in Nikon AF technology with the single point AF detection lines being about half the length of the D3/700. Many get used to this difference in about the first 20 images.
 
Last game I shot, I was at ISO5000 to give me f/4.5 and 1/1200th... so yes, every little gain in gain is good. :)
 
I'm shooting roller derby, and it's held in halls with frankly, crappy liighting. Even the roller rinks aren't all that crash hot either.

I have a grip for the D700, and it makes the whole thing larger than the bodies with the built-in grip, and the hand position isn't quite as nice. Still quite usable, but not as comfortable as the pro body.
 
You've convinced me, I see a D3s in my very near future. Now I start the never ending round...

Oh yeah, and more battery types to look after. Sigh...
 
+2 NT
 
Wonderful choice!
 
RobG67 said:
You've convinced me, I see a D3s in my very near future. Now I start the never ending round...

Oh yeah, and more battery types to look after. Sigh...
Click to expand...
 
Depending on the situations you may or may not notice the advantage of the D3s over the D700 in terms of low light performance and focusing speed/accuracy.

According to "scientific measurements" at dxomark the low light high iso performance of the D3s is still the king among all, even better than the D4.
 
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Thanks Chuck, great cementing there. :) New, there's no way I could justify the cost, even now, but used is within my personal cost/benefit scale. And I've got at least 1 D700 to get rid of, so that'll amortise a fair chunk of the D3s cost.
 
" For subjects that do not require high corner IQ, the D3S with 70-200 VR I lens is an extraordinary combination."

Yay'n'stuff. Coz that's what I'll be using for a while yet.

Thanks for the testing AND reporting Marianne, much appreciated.
 
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