What's so special about the rangefinder shape?

I don't see what's wrong with different people having different preferences. I like the range finder shape personally, as it makes the overall package a bit more compact, and I prefer having the eye piece on the top left corner, so I don't have to put my nose/face all over the back of the camera. To each their own. :)
 
It works.
True, but so do other designs.
We have a phrase here. It's called re-inventing the wheel. If a design works, and you drop it for no other reason than another design also works, but isn't an improvement, you have re-invented the wheel, which is akin to spinning your tires.

Saying other designs also work is not a good case for changing a design, especially one that is ergonomically familiar.
 
It works.
True, but so do other designs.
We have a phrase here. It's called re-inventing the wheel. If a design works, and you drop it for no other reason than another design also works, but isn't an improvement, you have re-invented the wheel, which is akin to spinning your tires.

Saying other designs also work is not a good case for changing a design, especially one that is ergonomically familiar.
Now, today's gripped SLRs that are massive are awful, but then again they are that way not because they are SLRs but because they are massive designs with grips, large batteries and incorporate every trick in the book.

Essentially the only difference between an SLR and a rangefinder is the position of the finder. But traditionally, rangefinders had their finders up top on accessory shoes. Or they were in a separate window. They were integrated into a central finder much later.

A traditional SLR and traditional rangefinder use the same body, only the flange distance is different- and the hump. In fact, Nikon's first SLR, the F, was based off the SP rangefinder. I say all this preferring the X-Pro to the a7r hands-down from an ergonomic perspective and a fun perspective. But that isn't because the a7r looks like an SLR; it is because it is poorly designed, with an interface both complicated and meandering.

Lots of unlabelled buttons, few direct, legible controls and on and on.

I love the X-Pro 1 and I assume that if Fuji were to deliver an SLR-like design, they would be careful in the design and make something clear and easy to use. And I must admit, that with the SLR-like lenses in the X llineup, it should look perfectly at home. Currently, SLR-like lenses don't really look great on the X.
 
It works.
True, but so do other designs.
We have a phrase here. It's called re-inventing the wheel. If a design works, and you drop it for no other reason than another design also works, but isn't an improvement, you have re-invented the wheel, which is akin to spinning your tires.

Saying other designs also work is not a good case for changing a design, especially one that is ergonomically familiar.
Now, today's gripped SLRs that are massive are awful, but then again they are that way not because they are SLRs but because they are massive designs with grips, large batteries and incorporate every trick in the book.
They are what they are, and we can agree to disagree on whether they are massive or awful. There are advantages to size and weight. Small, lightweight cameras are not necessarily the best camera for every circumstance. I use Pentax, which I've found to be a good compromise between size, weight and performance, though the K3 is getting up there. It's a chunky camera.

The SLRs from Nikon, Canon and Pentax are somewhat trapped by the need for backwards compatibility with legacy glass. This is something the newcomers to the market don't have to worry about. Sony should be more concerned than they seem to be, they are using the old Minolta AF mount after all. I suspect they feel they are a big enough elephant that they can do what they like. I don't think Canon could get away with another lens mount abandonment, I don't think Nikon would try, and I'm pretty sure Pentax is good with what they are doing, which is compact, well built cameras and lenses.
Essentially the only difference between an SLR and a rangefinder is the position of the finder. But traditionally, rangefinders had their finders up top on accessory shoes. Or they were in a separate window. They were integrated into a central finder much later.
Well, there is more to it than that. There is the whole pentaprism thing to take into consideration.
A traditional SLR and traditional rangefinder use the same body, only the flange distance is different- and the hump. In fact, Nikon's first SLR, the F, was based off the SP rangefinder.
Except they were totally different animals. The flange distance of the SLR was some 10mm longer, etc, and IIRC, all the dimensions of the SP were smaller than the F. It's been a very long time since I have had both in the same room.

I say all this preferring the X-Pro to the a7r hands-down from an ergonomic perspective and a fun perspective. But that isn't because the a7r looks like an SLR; it is because it is poorly designed, with an interface both complicated and meandering.

Lots of unlabelled buttons, few direct, legible controls and on and on.
I'm not a big fan of Sony either, They seem to jump around a lot, which I find both confusing and disturbing.
I love the X-Pro 1 and I assume that if Fuji were to deliver an SLR-like design, they would be careful in the design and make something clear and easy to use. And I must admit, that with the SLR-like lenses in the X llineup, it should look perfectly at home. Currently, SLR-like lenses don't really look great on the X.
Apparently, you aren't familiar with Pentax lenses. They both look great on the X-Pro1, but work well also (at least the ones with aperture rings do). The Pentax 43mm LTD is a gorgeous lens on the Fuji.

The mirrorless camera fan people seem to be about the most rabid, with their gee whiz, look at what we have attitude. So far, i haven't seen a mirrorless that I would buy with the exception of the X-Pro1, which I bought because I wanted the very lovely 35/1.4. If the Fuji hadn't had an optical viewfinder, I would not have considered it, as I find EVF finders to be universally brutal and awful to use. I find that about 30 seconds into using an EVF, I'm getting a headache, and a minute or two after that, my last meal is trying to remove itself from me. Five minutes and I'm a mewling, puking kitten.

This is something that manufacturers really need to figure out. If they can't make a decent EVF, the whole mirrorless genre is pretty much doomed to being a niche market.
 
Apparently, you aren't familiar with Pentax lenses. They both look great on the X-Pro1, but work well also (at least the ones with aperture rings do). The Pentax 43mm LTD is a gorgeous lens on the Fuji.

The mirrorless camera fan people seem to be about the most rabid, with their gee whiz, look at what we have attitude. So far, i haven't seen a mirrorless that I would buy with the exception of the X-Pro1, which I bought because I wanted the very lovely 35/1.4. If the Fuji hadn't had an optical viewfinder, I would not have considered it, as I find EVF finders to be universally brutal and awful to use. I find that about 30 seconds into using an EVF, I'm getting a headache, and a minute or two after that, my last meal is trying to remove itself from me. Five minutes and I'm a mewling, puking kitten.

This is something that manufacturers really need to figure out. If they can't make a decent EVF, the whole mirrorless genre is pretty much doomed to being a niche market.
We certainly can agree on your last point. Before we get there, though, I am familiar with Pentax lenses, from m42 to their current K mount. Some lenses they make are very compact. Most are excellent. The X-Pro looks a bit better with SLR lenses than does the Sony, but I meant the X lenses. They are fine, but they don't look as good on the X Pro as do true rangefinder lenses.

Unfortuantely for users like me, not a single X camera has a good EVF. I will not buy X lenses for a number or reasons and am forced to use the slow, stammering, low contrast EVF. I've gotten used to it and can focus rather well- not as well as through a real pentaprism or mirror setup, but reasonably well.

The a7r's EVF is a long way off. I was hoping it would be good enough to pop manual focus lenses into focus in the link of an eye as is possible with the D800. No.

Above a few paragraphs, I said the only essential difference between SLRs and rangefinders: I meant handling. Construction is different of course, but in handling, the two classic designs are almost interchangeable. Today's SLRs are completely different, and I find, rife with oversight. That is why I got the X-Pro. It is a finely envisioned camera. I think, however, that it is way undershot. I hope the X-Pro 2 fixes most of the interface/slowness/irresponsive errors as well as brings:

- PIP overlay in OVF for manual focus
- larger, brighter OVF
- fast updating EVF
- 1/200 flash sync
- 1/2 stop shutter speeds from 1/400 to 8/1 like the Leica M9.

If the above could be fixed, I'd even be happy with the 16MP and APSC, but I'd much rather FF- only because I use LTM and M lenses and nothing less. I bought my lenses at the focal lengths I use: 28/50/90. On F mount I have 28/50/85. But that whole thing is screwed up with the X. I know it won't change anytime soon, which is a shame. Fuji are so close. Their camera has too many buttons and too much menu to wade through for a simple user like me, but it is the closest to a comfortable camera I've used in the non-Leica mirror less genre.
 
I have the X-Pro 1. I also have a Canon P (a real rangefinder), an Olympus trip (a real fixed-lens rangefinder) and a Yashica Electro 35 (a real fixed-lens rangefinder). I am borrowing a Leica M9 (a real rangefinder).

The latter shoots completely different to the X-Pro. When I go to Yodobashi and look at the lenses for the X-Pro, I can't help but notice their shape: they are SLR-style lenses (aperture ring aft, large focus rings in the front).

If the rumoured SLR-shaped X camera really does hit market, why will you dislike it, or why will you not dislike it? Remember: your lenses are SLR lenses. And if you use adapted lenses, you have to use your X-pro exactly like an SLR. The X-E1 has nothing at all in common with a rangefinder. For all intensive purposes, it is an SLR style camera like a Pen from the 1970's but with an off-set viewfinder.

Personally, I welcome an SLR shape. The current one is all just a rouse. If you use the X lenses, you kind of get the 'rangefinder' experience, but only insofar as you use the optical viewfinder. Interaction with the lenses, the behaviour of the camera/lens connection, the aperture chatter- that's all SLR stuff.

If Fuji made an X-Pro with a PIP overlay in the OVF so that manual focus could be done whilst looking through the OVF, I would see a reason to keep the 'rangefinder' style. But then, I would seriously take issue with the current lens design. Until they do, however, the X is just a fun wannabe that has none of the substance but all of the cheap flare.

BTW, it is way funner to use than the Sony a7r.
 

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