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Let's talk about focus breathing

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Karl Summers

Karl Summers

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No, I'm not talking about holding your breath as you focus, I'm specifically asking about the phenomenon that is exhibited by the Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII when you are at a close distance and want a real tight shot. I really want to get this lens but I wonder if it would limit what I do. I like street photography and people shots from longer ranges, but I also like tight shots when I'm inside stores, or outside and want to get signage and other 'macro' opportunities.

I've been looking at the 70-200 f/4 and it apparently does not suffer from such focus breathing, but I wonder if I can still get good quality separation and bokeh from an f/4 aperture.

Anybody else ever think or experience this issue? I would help greatly in my decision.

Thanks,

Karl
 
Unless you're a weightlifter, carrying the 70-220 f/2.8 around fro street photography is going to be quite the chore.
 
paulski66 said:
Unless you're a weightlifter, carrying the 70-220 f/2.8 around fro street photography is going to be quite the chore.
Click to expand...
Do you think I'll be missing anything without the 2.8 aperture?
 
Karl Summers said:
paulski66 said:
Unless you're a weightlifter, carrying the 70-220 f/2.8 around fro street photography is going to be quite the chore.
Click to expand...
Do you think I'll be missing anything without the 2.8 aperture?
Click to expand...
Well, I bought the f/2.8, but I loved the f/4. I thought it balanced perfectly on the d600, and it is much, much more portable.

I needed the faster aperture for indoor sports and dance performances. For street photography, even at night, I'm not sure it would be quite so critical. But only you can really know that for sure.
 
paulski66 said:
Karl Summers said:
paulski66 said:
Unless you're a weightlifter, carrying the 70-220 f/2.8 around fro street photography is going to be quite the chore.
Click to expand...
Do you think I'll be missing anything without the 2.8 aperture?
Click to expand...
Well, I bought the f/2.8, but I loved the f/4. I thought it balanced perfectly on the d600, and it is much, much more portable.

I needed the faster aperture for indoor sports and dance performances. For street photography, even at night, I'm not sure it would be quite so critical. But only you can really know that for sure.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that f/4 has a really attractive price, and from what I've read, the image quality is just as good. With the cost savings I could afford a teleconverter...or maybe a nice prime lens.
 
Last edited:
Karl Summers said:
No, I'm not talking about holding your breath as you focus, I'm specifically asking about the phenomenon that is exhibited by the Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII when you are at a close distance and want a real tight shot. I really want to get this lens but I wonder if it would limit what I do. I like street photography and people shots from longer ranges, but I also like tight shots when I'm inside stores, or outside and want to get signage and other 'macro' opportunities.

I've been looking at the 70-200 f/4 and it apparently does not suffer from such focus breathing, but I wonder if I can still get good quality separation and bokeh from an f/4 aperture.

Anybody else ever think or experience this issue? I would help greatly in my decision.

Thanks,

Karl
Click to expand...
Hi Karl, the 70-200 f/2.8 is not a particularly close focusing lens so real close "macro" isn't it's forte, so to speak. even if it didn't focus breathe. Also the 70mm end isn't very wide for indoor use at close distances. Other than that it is a spectacular zoom. Lightning quick focusing, even in low light, and sharp at all apertures and ranges.

I wonder if you would be better served by the 24-70? it's my favorite walk around lens and is equally quick and sharp. I use it with slow shutter speeds in low light and the lack of vr doesn't bother me a bit like it would on longer reach lenses.

Both of these lenses give you good low light capabilities and are very accurate. I really don't think the focus breathing is going to be an issue for you and the weight is one of those things that you get used to. It isn't uncommon for me to carry my D800 with grip and the 70-200 for 5 or 6 hours without putting it down and I'm old. I would make my choice based on the range you want. Rent one and then the other for a weekend. Then you will be able to make a decision based on experience,
 
ormdig said:
Karl Summers said:
No, I'm not talking about holding your breath as you focus, I'm specifically asking about the phenomenon that is exhibited by the Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII when you are at a close distance and want a real tight shot. I really want to get this lens but I wonder if it would limit what I do. I like street photography and people shots from longer ranges, but I also like tight shots when I'm inside stores, or outside and want to get signage and other 'macro' opportunities.

I've been looking at the 70-200 f/4 and it apparently does not suffer from such focus breathing, but I wonder if I can still get good quality separation and bokeh from an f/4 aperture.

Anybody else ever think or experience this issue? I would help greatly in my decision.

Thanks,

Karl
Click to expand...
Hi Karl, the 70-200 f/2.8 is not a particularly close focusing lens so real close "macro" isn't it's forte, so to speak. even if it didn't focus breathe. Also the 70mm end isn't very wide for indoor use at close distances. Other than that it is a spectacular zoom. Lightning quick focusing, even in low light, and sharp at all apertures and ranges.

I wonder if you would be better served by the 24-70? it's my favorite walk around lens and is equally quick and sharp. I use it with slow shutter speeds in low light and the lack of vr doesn't bother me a bit like it would on longer reach lenses.

Both of these lenses give you good low light capabilities and are very accurate. I really don't think the focus breathing is going to be an issue for you and the weight is one of those things that you get used to. It isn't uncommon for me to carry my D800 with grip and the 70-200 for 5 or 6 hours without putting it down and I'm old. I would make my choice based on the range you want. Rent one and then the other for a weekend. Then you will be able to make a decision based on experience,
Click to expand...
 
Seventy millimetres is starting to get long for street photography. Certainly 200 is very, very long. The closing speeds of people walking will tend to make it easier to use shorter lenses. I have found it easy to use very wide open apertures for street on short lenses. You can get nice isolation and tight framing...

…but no more sniper stuff.

You need to get close.

Moreover, wheeling about that stovepipe at the end of your camera will make for a lot of axial motion.

--
Could you all move half an inch to the left? Okay, pretend you like each other and smile.
 
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Why/ 1

There is nothing new under the sun. What you mistakenly say is a phenomenon is not a phenomenon - it is a lens characteristic.

ALL Nikon lenses, except 50mm f1.8 D and 85mm PC, breathe.

You either accept most lenses breathe or you do not have as fast AF, f1.4 lenses, variable aperture zooms, long lenses as light as they are with much better close up performance, 1:1 macro AF etc.

Why/ 2

This particular lens was introduced 4 years ago - you could do a search - and likely find more than 10,000 opinions on this forum

Why/ 3

This lens goes closer (more magnification) than some of the Nikon specialist portrait lenses :)

If you want more magnification buy a lens which delivers - the 70-200 f4 AF-s you mention being an interesting solution with improved VR.

This f4 has very good bokeh and if you occasionally wish you could have f2.8 background blur any decent software includes Gaussian blur can achieve this (and more) in post processing.

Why/ 4

Like it or not Nikon (and more so Canon) think video is important.

The 70-200 II is a "digital" lens which holds angle of view to a good standard when focussing close.

Why/ 5

As others are rightly suggesting other lenses might be a better option. More than 1 lens and more than 1 body is a solution many choose for a wide range of photographic needs.

Deciding what your needs are is down to you.
 
"I'm still undecided. I'm a sucker for a ton of bokeh, and though the new 70-200 vr2 clearly has some pleasing qualities, I'm not sure i am willing to give up the lack of reach/bokeh capability. I shoot a LOT of close range press conferences so it could prove to be a problem. I JUST got comfortable moving from DX to totally FX and I can tell you losing that 1.5 crop kind of hurt. I essentially went from having a 300mm lens to a 200mm switching from DX to FX. Using the 70-200mm VR2 means maxing out around 160mm (on an FX sensor) when focusing at anything under 30ft away? Yikes.

In my gear bag? No"

Read more: http://www.samhurdphotography.com/2010/gear-reviews/review-nikon-70-200-vrii-lens

~

www.BogdanSandulescu.Ro
 
Last edited:
Karl Summers said:
No, I'm not talking about holding your breath as you focus, I'm specifically asking about the phenomenon that is exhibited by the Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII when you are at a close distance and want a real tight shot. I really want to get this lens but I wonder if it would limit what I do. I like street photography and people shots from longer ranges, but I also like tight shots when I'm inside stores, or outside and want to get signage and other 'macro' opportunities.

I've been looking at the 70-200 f/4 and it apparently does not suffer from such focus breathing, but I wonder if I can still get good quality separation and bokeh from an f/4 aperture.
Click to expand...
It's not going to look like f2.8, whats wrong w the VR1 ?
 
Shaun_Nyc said:
Karl Summers said:
No, I'm not talking about holding your breath as you focus, I'm specifically asking about the phenomenon that is exhibited by the Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII when you are at a close distance and want a real tight shot. I really want to get this lens but I wonder if it would limit what I do. I like street photography and people shots from longer ranges, but I also like tight shots when I'm inside stores, or outside and want to get signage and other 'macro' opportunities.

I've been looking at the 70-200 f/4 and it apparently does not suffer from such focus breathing, but I wonder if I can still get good quality separation and bokeh from an f/4 aperture.
Click to expand...
It's not going to look like f2.8, whats wrong w the VR1 ?
Click to expand...
Where can I find a new copy?
 
Karl Summers said:
Shaun_Nyc said:
Karl Summers said:
No, I'm not talking about holding your breath as you focus, I'm specifically asking about the phenomenon that is exhibited by the Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII when you are at a close distance and want a real tight shot. I really want to get this lens but I wonder if it would limit what I do. I like street photography and people shots from longer ranges, but I also like tight shots when I'm inside stores, or outside and want to get signage and other 'macro' opportunities.

I've been looking at the 70-200 f/4 and it apparently does not suffer from such focus breathing, but I wonder if I can still get good quality separation and bokeh from an f/4 aperture.
Click to expand...
It's not going to look like f2.8, whats wrong w the VR1 ?
Click to expand...
Where can I find a new copy?
Click to expand...
It's been out of production for a while but used can be a good option

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1254010/0?keyword=70-200#11933222
 
What about an 85 f1.8? A lot of street photographers like that, tho most prefer wider.
 
InTheMist said:
What about an 85 f1.8? A lot of street photographers like that, tho most prefer wider.

--
It's more important how an image looks as a thumbnail than how it looks at 100%.
www.flickr.com/InTheMist
Click to expand...
Dude I was totally considering that, but I need more versatility. I was thinking that lens will be more suitable for my fine art photography. Regardless, it will be a part of my collection sooner or later.
 
Last edited:
Karl Summers said:
No, I'm not talking about holding your breath as you focus, I'm specifically asking about the phenomenon that is exhibited by the Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII when you are at a close distance and want a real tight shot. I really want to get this lens but I wonder if it would limit what I do. I like street photography and people shots from longer ranges, but I also like tight shots when I'm inside stores, or outside and want to get signage and other 'macro' opportunities.

I've been looking at the 70-200 f/4 and it apparently does not suffer from such focus breathing, but I wonder if I can still get good quality separation and bokeh from an f/4 aperture.

Anybody else ever think or experience this issue? I would help greatly in my decision.
Click to expand...
Firstly, take absolutely no notice of anything that JamesErik says. He seems to have some sort of childish vendetta against hobbyists and his comments are not to be taken seriously.

I used to own the 70-200 f/2.8 VR2 and yes it does suffer from focus breathing. It's a magnificent lens with incredible image quality but in my line of work I was very often surprised by how short it was (focal length wise) at medium to short distances.

Personally I sold mine because it was so heavy. It really wasn't a lot of fun for me holding it to my face for long periods of time, although many others will not find it such a problem.

It's a big lens, so if you want to draw attention to yourself, then this is the lens for you. Walking around inside stores with this monster will certainly draw attention to you! If you want to be more discreet, then definitely go for the f/4.
 
Last edited:
John Motts said:
Karl Summers said:
No, I'm not talking about holding your breath as you focus, I'm specifically asking about the phenomenon that is exhibited by the Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII when you are at a close distance and want a real tight shot. I really want to get this lens but I wonder if it would limit what I do. I like street photography and people shots from longer ranges, but I also like tight shots when I'm inside stores, or outside and want to get signage and other 'macro' opportunities.

I've been looking at the 70-200 f/4 and it apparently does not suffer from such focus breathing, but I wonder if I can still get good quality separation and bokeh from an f/4 aperture.

Anybody else ever think or experience this issue? I would help greatly in my decision.
Click to expand...
Firstly, take absolutely no notice of anything that JamesErik says. He seems to have some sort of childish vendetta against hobbyists and his comments are not to be taken seriously.

I used to own the 70-200 f/2.8 VR2 and yes it does suffer from focus breathing. It's a magnificent lens with incredible image quality but in my line of work I was very often surprised by how short it was (focal length wise) at medium to short distances.

Personally I sold mine because it was so heavy. It really wasn't a lot of fun for me holding it to my face for long periods of time, although many others will not find it such a problem.

It's a big lens, so if you want to draw attention to yourself, then this is the lens for you. Walking around inside stores with this monster will certainly draw attention to you! If you want to be more discreet, then definitely go for the f/4.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advisement. I've decided to rent the 2.8 for a weekend to see what exactly I'm dealing with heft-wise. From what I've read there is not a big drop off in image quality between the 2.8 and the f/4. I just might get the 85 1.8 for inside stores.
 
Karl Summers said:
John Motts said:
Karl Summers said:
No, I'm not talking about holding your breath as you focus, I'm specifically asking about the phenomenon that is exhibited by the Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII when you are at a close distance and want a real tight shot. I really want to get this lens but I wonder if it would limit what I do. I like street photography and people shots from longer ranges, but I also like tight shots when I'm inside stores, or outside and want to get signage and other 'macro' opportunities.

I've been looking at the 70-200 f/4 and it apparently does not suffer from such focus breathing, but I wonder if I can still get good quality separation and bokeh from an f/4 aperture.

Anybody else ever think or experience this issue? I would help greatly in my decision.
Click to expand...
Firstly, take absolutely no notice of anything that JamesErik says. He seems to have some sort of childish vendetta against hobbyists and his comments are not to be taken seriously.

I used to own the 70-200 f/2.8 VR2 and yes it does suffer from focus breathing. It's a magnificent lens with incredible image quality but in my line of work I was very often surprised by how short it was (focal length wise) at medium to short distances.

Personally I sold mine because it was so heavy. It really wasn't a lot of fun for me holding it to my face for long periods of time, although many others will not find it such a problem.

It's a big lens, so if you want to draw attention to yourself, then this is the lens for you. Walking around inside stores with this monster will certainly draw attention to you! If you want to be more discreet, then definitely go for the f/4.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advisement. I've decided to rent the 2.8 for a weekend to see what exactly I'm dealing with heft-wise. From what I've read there is not a big drop off in image quality between the 2.8 and the f/4. I just might get the 85 1.8 for inside stores.
Click to expand...
The f/4 quailty is fine, as is the 85mm 1.8G.

But I've got to ask, do you go round taking photographs of people in stores without asking them? Here in England you'd probably get asked to leave if you did, and quite rightly so.
 
John Motts said:
Karl Summers said:
John Motts said:
Karl Summers said:
No, I'm not talking about holding your breath as you focus, I'm specifically asking about the phenomenon that is exhibited by the Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII when you are at a close distance and want a real tight shot. I really want to get this lens but I wonder if it would limit what I do. I like street photography and people shots from longer ranges, but I also like tight shots when I'm inside stores, or outside and want to get signage and other 'macro' opportunities.

I've been looking at the 70-200 f/4 and it apparently does not suffer from such focus breathing, but I wonder if I can still get good quality separation and bokeh from an f/4 aperture.

Anybody else ever think or experience this issue? I would help greatly in my decision.
Click to expand...
Firstly, take absolutely no notice of anything that JamesErik says. He seems to have some sort of childish vendetta against hobbyists and his comments are not to be taken seriously.

I used to own the 70-200 f/2.8 VR2 and yes it does suffer from focus breathing. It's a magnificent lens with incredible image quality but in my line of work I was very often surprised by how short it was (focal length wise) at medium to short distances.

Personally I sold mine because it was so heavy. It really wasn't a lot of fun for me holding it to my face for long periods of time, although many others will not find it such a problem.

It's a big lens, so if you want to draw attention to yourself, then this is the lens for you. Walking around inside stores with this monster will certainly draw attention to you! If you want to be more discreet, then definitely go for the f/4.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advisement. I've decided to rent the 2.8 for a weekend to see what exactly I'm dealing with heft-wise. From what I've read there is not a big drop off in image quality between the 2.8 and the f/4. I just might get the 85 1.8 for inside stores.
Click to expand...
The f/4 quailty is fine, as is the 85mm 1.8G.

But I've got to ask, do you go round taking photographs of people in stores without asking them? Here in England you'd probably get asked to leave if you did, and quite rightly so.
Click to expand...
No, when I'm in stores I take pictures of various store items for sale, especially when I'm in Chinatown...which makes me wonder if the 105mm macro would be a better lens for that. When I'm outside I take the pictures of people, mainly street performers and such.
 
Here's a shot I took with my Canon. I like to get in tight and fill the frame.

82423a2316df4cc7a3e7367a7395a7ad.jpg
 
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