Anti-virus Question

hillfield

Active member
Messages
58
Reaction score
0
Can anybody please tell me the best Anti-virus programme to use. I had the Windows Defender on but once I put AVG on this was automatically switched off. Is there some way I can use the two together?

Is there any programme better than these two.

Should I pay for the more advanced AVG.

I would appreciate any advice that you can offer. After a recent severe malicious virus attack I think am becoming a bit paranroid.

Best Regards & Thanks again.
 
Can anybody please tell me the best Anti-virus programme to use. I had the Windows Defender on but once I put AVG on this was automatically switched off. Is there some way I can use the two together?

Is there any programme better than these two.

Should I pay for the more advanced AVG.

I would appreciate any advice that you can offer. After a recent severe malicious virus attack I think am becoming a bit paranroid.

Best Regards & Thanks again.
Look here to see what people are using and some discussions on the different options. Not sure which works well with Windows Defender.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52256381

I used Norton Internet Security and do not use Windows Defender or Windows Essentials with it.
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately you ask a question that will garner many different opinions, so here's mine:

I've owned many different AV programs and suites over the last few decades and have changed companies several times as newer and better software became available. My current favorite is Norton. It runs quietly in the background without slowing down my system. My prior choice - just before Norton - was Kaspersky. It did a great job protecting but ended up being a performance drag (which is why I switched to Norton).

I've also had Windows Live Essentials and McAfee. Essentials was free and OK, but I learned to really despise McAfee.

The best way for you to find out which AV software is best for you is to start looking up on-line reviews.

soloryb
Can anybody please tell me the best Anti-virus programme to use. I had the Windows Defender on but once I put AVG on this was automatically switched off. Is there some way I can use the two together?

Is there any programme better than these two.

Should I pay for the more advanced AVG.

I would appreciate any advice that you can offer. After a recent severe malicious virus attack I think am becoming a bit paranroid.

Best Regards & Thanks again.
 
"....I think am becoming a bit paranroid."

Actually, I don't think you are; the internet is a bad neighborhood, so it's worth taking care.

Trying to use two security products together is tricky - they may conflict, each regarding the other as malware. That said, I would recommend Malwarebytes, plus an AV product. If an AV doesn't play nice with MB, choose another AV.

My preference is Avira free, but it does take some tweaking to turn off the nag screens, adverts etc.

HTH, and good luck!
 
It is good if you can get one third party AV software package to run without causing problems, never mind trying to run two at the same time. I use Microsoft Defender and am quite happy with it. I installed it after using AVG and it found about 40 virus in total on two machines that AVG did not find. Based on personal experience I can't recommend AVG although I used it for a few years.

Consumer Reports recently tested software and the top rated free antivirus software in their testing was Avast!, and the top rated not free software was G Data Internet Security 2013. If you are not happy with Defender I would suggest one of those two, depending on whether you want to pay or not.
 
Can anybody please tell me the best Anti-virus programme to use. I had the Windows Defender on but once I put AVG on this was automatically switched off. Is there some way I can use the two together?

Is there any programme better than these two.

Should I pay for the more advanced AVG.
No, I'd use a better product, as even some of the free products offer much better protection.

AV protection is a hotly debated subject in the forums. Personally, I'm using Emsisoft Anti-Malware now. See my posts about it in this thread:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52260969

But, you'll also find debates about the products offering the best protection in other threads. For example, see my posts in this thread:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52502202

For a free product, I'd probably look at Avast (as mark h pointed out, does nicely on many of the real world tests).

But, if you don't want to be nagged by upgrade offers, etc. (as you'll tend to see with free AV solutions); I'd suggest looking at products like Emsisoft (using it's own engine, as well as the Bitdefender engine), Bitdefender, or Kaspersky.

As for Microsoft Security Essentials (or Windows Defender), I'd strongly suggest using a different product, as Microsoft's protection tends to be about as bad as it gets (almost any other product will offer better protection against malware).

---JimC
------
 
Last edited:
Can anybody please tell me the best Anti-virus programme to use.
That depends on two things...

1. Whether you want 'Free' or 'Paid for' anti-virus (?)

2. Depends who you ask.
I had the Windows Defender on but once I put AVG on this was automatically switched off. Is there some way I can use the two together?
Nearly all anti-virus and/or Internet-security programs will switch Windows Defender off - that is quite normal.

This is done to avoid potential software conflicts with your replacement AV software.

Generally speaking, you should not try to run more than one 'real-time' AV program at the same time (but it is usually OK to have additional 'scan on demand only' programs).
Is there any programme better than these two.
As for 'Windows Defender' (or Microsoft Security Essentials) - almost all the alternatives are considerably better.

Re 'AVG' - AVG Free AV is very good, although most labs testing show 'avast! Free AV' to be a bit better.
Should I pay for the more advanced AVG.
No, at least not for AVG.

If you feel you really want to pay for the most advanced protection, then you should be looking at something like 'Kaspersky' or 'Bitdefender' Internet Security (rather than just AV) - personally, if buying, I would recommend 'Kaspersky'.
I would appreciate any advice that you can offer. After a recent severe malicious virus attack I think am becoming a bit paranroid.
My advice at this stage would be to consider swapping AVG for 'avast! Free AV'.

Regarding whether or not to pay for the more advanced options - that's always a personal price/performance/features choice that only you can decide.

The very best 'paid for' Internet Security suites may well be slightly better than 'free' AVG/avast! etc, and have a few extra features - but the best free AV/security is still excellent protection for most people, and a dramatic improvement over Windows Defender.

Personally, I've never paid for my AV in all of 14 years.

Here is the best reading that may help in comparing AV efficacy/performance...

http://www.av-comparatives.org/dynamic-tests/

http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-7/julaug-2013/

http://www.dennistechnologylabs.com/reports/s/a-m/2013/

http://www.mrg-effitas.com/mrg-effi...ime-protection-test-project-first-quarter-q2/

And this 'Market Share' report is also very interesting...

http://www.opswat.com/about/media/reports/antivirus-august-2013

...notice that 'avast! AV Free' is the single most widely used AV in the world - albeit Windows Defender and Microsoft Security Essentials counted together has more users.

...enjoy.
 
Last edited:
As for 'Windows Defender' (or Microsoft Security Essentials) - almost all the alternatives are considerably better.
Yep, no kidding. Microsoft's available AV products are horrible (and that's an understatement) compared to virtually any other AV protection, free or commercial.
Re 'AVG' - AVG Free AV is very good, although most labs testing show 'avast! Free AV' to be a bit better.
Very good is highly subjective.

I've been shocked at the amount of malware I've found on hard drives moved from PCs running Windows that were running fully updated AVG when I scanned them later with other products. ;-)
My advice at this stage would be to consider swapping AVG for 'avast! Free AV'.
Yes, Avast does tend to do very nicely on some tests. But, if you look at the most recent av-comparatives real world tests that you linked to, it still missed malware (even though it did better on some of the previous tests). It let machines running it be compromised.

http://chart.av-comparatives.org/chart1.php

The problem anymore is that the amount of new malware being seen every month is increasing at an alarming level. See some of the stats at av-test.org for an example of that:

http://www.av-test.org/en/statistics/malware/

So, a product that had 99% protection in the past may have been great. But, in today's environment, that's just not good enough, as there is simply so much new malware being introduced that you need better protection.

I see members argue all the time that if you're careful about not opening attachments, don't visit sites that are not reputable, etc,. you won't get infected.

I disagree, as "legit" sites are hacked into on a regular basis with malware planted on them.

That's the just times we live in. So, I'd try to find the absolutely best protection you can; as a few bucks/month is a small price to pay versus the time and effort you may need to go through if your computer is compromised (not to mention the problems with bank accounts being emptied, other online accounts compromised because of your passwords being stolen, etc.)

So, personally, I'd find a very good commercial product for protection my PC. I'm currently using Emsisoft Anti-Malware when running Windows (which uses both the Bitdefender engine as well as it's own engine, behavior blockers and definitions).

But, next month this time, I may switch to something different, depending on how the latest test results look for popular products (as they tend to "leap frog" each other over time, and I just can't afford to be infected by malware and want to use the best protection available when I spend any time running Windows).

Now, frankly, I try to limit my time running in Windows to as little as possible anyway. But, when I do need to run Windows (using 64 Bit Win 7 currently), I want to make sure I have everything up to date (OS patches, browsers, plugins, etc.) using the best AV protection I can find. Of course, why I don't like to use Windows any more than absolutely necessary is another topic. ;-)

--
JimC
------
 
Last edited:
Generally speaking, you should not try to run more than one 'real-time' AV program at the same time (but it is usually OK to have additional 'scan on demand only' programs).
Yea... that's generally true. But, I tend to use multiple products for protection. For example, I run products like ThreatFire to monitor if anything is trying to make changes to important things like registry entries, use Firewall products like Comodo and more, along with the AV product I use (currently Emisosft Anti-Malware, but I may switch to something else at any time).

I also keep my computers setup to use specific DNS servers (switching between Norton, Comodo and OpenDNS so I get see warnings about sites that have been reported to have been compromised by malware before I load pages from them).

If you use my approach (multiple products for protection all running at the same time), you do need to make sure they all "play nice" with each other. Call me paranoid, but I try to use as many protection layers as possible when running Windows to reduce the chance of any compromise of my PC.

Of course, as the old saying goes... "you're not paranoid if they really are out to get you" (as is the case anymore with malware, as it's big business).

--
JimC
------
 
Last edited:
Thanks everybody. I think I need to sit back a little and reflect on all the good advice that has been so intelligently, and freely, offered. You have all been extremely kind.

At the moment, reading all the advice, one can almost see what would seem be a fairly immediate good combination. That would be to download Avast and Malwarebytes.

As I say, I need to give it all some serious deliberation.

Once again, thank you.

Regards,

Hillfield
 
As for 'Windows Defender' (or Microsoft Security Essentials) - almost all the alternatives are considerably better.
Yep, no kidding. Microsoft's available AV products are horrible (and that's an understatement) compared to virtually any other AV protection, free or commercial.
Re 'AVG' - AVG Free AV is very good, although most labs testing show 'avast! Free AV' to be a bit better.
Very good is highly subjective.

I've been shocked at the amount of malware I've found on hard drives moved from PCs running Windows that were running fully updated AVG when I scanned them later with other products. ;-)
Yes - perhaps it would be better if I'd just said 'good' rather than 'very good'.

It's not the best - but it is 'good' protection, compromised some 6~7 times fewer than Microsoft's MSE - and why people like AV-Comparatives.org still give it an 'Advanced **' award, ref: their 'Real World Protection Test (March-June 2013)' .

One significant point of note though, which is easily overlooked - the AVG version tested there, is actually a paid for 'Internet Security' version - it's not the 'AVG Free Antivirus' version - whereas the 'avast!' version tested there, which performs better than 'AVG IS', is actually avast's free version.

Infact, I believe the only 'Free' versions in that test series are 'avast!', 'Qihoo 360', Panda (and of course Microsoft), just 4 of the 21 products tested - though a few others do have free counterparts not tested there.
My advice at this stage would be to consider swapping AVG for 'avast! Free AV'.
Yes, Avast does tend to do very nicely on some tests. But, if you look at the most recent av-comparatives real world tests that you linked to, it still missed malware (even though it did better on some of the previous tests). It let machines running it be compromised.
'avast! Free AV' did every bit as well as most of the other products tested - all of the products tested allowed machine to be compromised, to varying degrees, at some point.

In a couple of the last six months, it had better results than your beloved 'Emisoft'. -)
I'm not sure why, but those interactive charts don't work on my PC (XP with IE8) - they used to work some time ago - any suggestion as to what I'm missing, settings/plugins?
The problem anymore is that the amount of new malware being seen every month is increasing at an alarming level. See some of the stats at av-test.org for an example of that:

http://www.av-test.org/en/statistics/malware/

So, a product that had 99% protection in the past may have been great. But, in today's environment, that's just not good enough, as there is simply so much new malware being introduced that you need better protection.
You really are being overly alarmist and misrepresenting the risk.

The number of new viruses simply does not indicate the risk of infection.

For example, Microsoft's most recent survey statistics (albeit stat's only from their own security products) show that in recent quarter year periods just 17%, i.e. 1 in 6 computers 'encountered' any malware - so the majority, 5 out of 6, or 83% of computers didn't even 'encounter' any malware, for months at a time.

Further to that, we can reasonably assume that somewhere in the region of say 98% (sometimes higher, sometimes lower) of 'encounters' fail to infect/compromise due to patched vulnerabilities, and anti-malware software blocking them.

So, by some crude mathematics, that would suggest that the risk of compromise/infection for most people is probably, on average, only about 0.3%.

Examining even further - only a small percentage of infections/compromises actually result in significant harm/loss - so if we speculatively that say 2% of infections/compromises result in significant loss/cost (I doubt it was even that high), the risk at this level might be as small as only 0.006% or just 1 in 17,000.

The risk of significant harm/loss/cost is far lower than you might suggest - and even lower if people exercised best practice/reasonable caution.
I see members argue all the time that if you're careful about not opening attachments, don't visit sites that are not reputable, etc,. you won't get infected.
It won't necessarily stop infection, but it certainly will go a long way to greatly reducing the risk.

The vast majority of infections are the result of such easily exploited human failings - email 'phishing', attachments, downloading software/pirated content from untrustworthy sources, and visiting 'dubious' web-sites.
I disagree, as "legit" sites are hacked into on a regular basis with malware planted on them.
It certainly happens - but most people will rarely encounter it that way.
That's the just times we live in. So, I'd try to find the absolutely best protection you can; as a few bucks/month is a small price to pay versus the time and effort you may need to go through if your computer is compromised (not to mention the problems with bank accounts being emptied, other online accounts compromised because of your passwords being stolen, etc.)
Again - you are being alarmist.

It can happen - but just as, every day, people get 'run over' crossing the streets - but that doesn't mean that you absolutely have to go out walking in full body armour and helmet.
.....

Now, frankly, I try to limit my time running in Windows to as little as possible anyway. But, when I do need to run Windows (using 64 Bit Win 7 currently), I want to make sure I have everything up to date (OS patches, browsers, plugins, etc.) using the best AV protection I can find. Of course, why I don't like to use Windows any more than absolutely necessary is another topic. ;-)
Frankly, I think you are being excessively paranoid.

I'm still using Windows XP (SP3) - I've only ever used Microsoft IE browsers (and XP only supports up to IE8) - and I've only ever used 'free' anti-virus/security products.

I do all my banking/investing/insurance/utility accounts, on-line shopping, etc, etc - all using the above system - and all without the slightest problem for well over 10 years (and a few years before that using Windows 98).
 
Generally speaking, you should not try to run more than one 'real-time' AV program at the same time (but it is usually OK to have additional 'scan on demand only' programs).
Yea... that's generally true. But, I tend to use multiple products for protection. For example, I run products like ThreatFire to monitor if anything is trying to make changes to important things like registry entries, use Firewall products like Comodo and more, along with the AV product I use (currently Emisosft Anti-Malware, but I may switch to something else at any time).
Well then you might be interested to know that Bitdefender installer checks for 'incompatible' security software before installing, and both Comodo Firewall and Threatfire are among the long list of security products which Bitdefender considers incompatible.
I also keep my computers setup to use specific DNS servers (switching between Norton, Comodo and OpenDNS so I get see warnings about sites that have been reported to have been compromised by malware before I load pages from them).
I suppose it doesn't hurt - although such URL blocking is a relatively common feature of many AV/IS products, including many free versions.

As far as I can remember - Comodo DNS was less about blocking URLs, but more about being more secure against DNS poisoning (or whatever it's called) - but maybe things have developed further there.
If you use my approach (multiple products for protection all running at the same time), you do need to make sure they all "play nice" with each other. Call me paranoid,...
...no problem - you're paranoid!

It always makes me laugh/sigh when I see various others (not mentioning particular names) banging on about 'Sandboxie/VMs' - just what on earth are they getting up to/what sites are they frequenting (that I'm not) - for the most part, it's just more, crazed paranoia!
... but I try to use as many protection layers as possible when running Windows to reduce the chance of any compromise of my PC.

Of course, as the old saying goes... "you're not paranoid if they really are out to get you" (as is the case anymore with malware, as it's big business).
I'd bet 99.9% of PC users are to all intents and purposes absolutely safe and fine and happy, using just a single good quality Internet Security product (whether paid or free), with a fully updated Windows OS and IE.

As Paul Simon wrote/sang...

Paranoia strikes deep in the heartland
But I think it's all overdone
Exaggerating this exaggerating that
They don't have no fun

I don't believe what I read in the papers
They're just out to capture my dime
I ain't worrying
And I ain't scurrying
I'm having a good time


...Have a good time. ;-)
 
It never ceases to amaze me how many people think they're immune to malware infection.

XP, huh? Good luck with that.

As for never having a problem, I'd suggest booting into a different OS and scanning your drives with multiple AV scanners (as malware can more easily hide when booting into an already infected OS).

You may be surprised at what you find.

Again, I can't afford to get a malware infection, especially since I have Admin access to web sites that I help to maintain, and I don't want to put those sites (and our users) at risk.

So, I take a lot of extra precautions.

-
JimC
------
 
Last edited:
Thanks everybody. I think I need to sit back a little and reflect on all the good advice that has been so intelligently, and freely, offered. You have all been extremely kind.

At the moment, reading all the advice, one can almost see what would seem be a fairly immediate good combination. That would be to download Avast and Malwarebytes.
Malwarebytes isn't always that good.

It's main positive 'claim to fame' is that it can sometimes be quite good at cleaning problematic existing infections (as a 'scan/clean on demand' only program) - particularly in combination with it's 'Chameleon Technology' tool.

Malwarebytes can sometimes help to 'cure' (but by no mean always) when real-time 'prevention' has failed - but always, ideally 'prevention is better than cure'.

Look toward the bottom of this web page, promoting Lavasofts' new Ad-Aware 11 (now uses a Bitdefender based malware detection engine)... http://www.lavasoft.com/products/compare.php

Of course, must be treated with a little caution, as those are Lavasoft's own testing results/advertising, and not independent test lab results - but I suspect there must be some truth there (or they might be sued by avast, AVG, Malwarebytes).

It's also worth pointing out that 'Ad-Aware 11 Free AV', as well as being a 'real-time' anti-malware product - it can, optionally, be installed in (as they call it) 'Compatibility Mode' (i.e a 'scan on demand' only, installation) that is just like the 'Malwarebytes Free' version - available as a 'second opinion - on demand scanner' without it conflicting with your main 'real-time' security software.
 
It always makes me laugh/sigh when I see various others (not mentioning particular names) banging on about 'Sandboxie/VMs' - just what on earth are they getting up to/what sites are they frequenting (that I'm not) - for the most part, it's just more, crazed paranoia!
I dunno about "banging on" but I have mentioned sandboxes here. They're a useful tool in some situations. I don't feel the need to run a sandboxed browser as routine but I did set one up for a relative who was experiencing constant malware infections. Yes, he was not behaving in a very smart manner but that was a result of dementia -- something that is not easily fixed!

Sandboxing can make for a very, very safe browsing appliance and that's a useful thing. I don't advocate using a sandboxed browser by default. But it's a great tool if you're asked to investigate a program or website that is suspected of hosting malware!

More and more of the major software vendors are using sandboxing techniques. Google make use of sandboxing with Chrome. Adobe/Apple have just started doing the same with Flash/Safari. I predict we'll see growing use of sandboxing techniques in browsers.
 
It never ceases to amaze me how many people think they're immune to malware infection.
Where did I say I thought I was "immune"? I have not said that anywhere.

And when will you stop being so bl***y condescending?!
XP, huh? Good luck with that.
Huh? - don't be so ridiculous (not to mention patronising).

XP is still, to this day, a very good OS - it is still the second most widely used OS with over 30% of user share.

XP is still even supported by Microsoft (albeit until April next year) - and XP is still supported by most software vendors, and even more so by AV/IS software vendors.

XP's susceptibility to malware, when protected by good AV/IS, is not significantly worse than any later Windows OS...

http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-xp/marapr-2013/

http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-7/julaug-2013/

...order those respective tables by ' v Protection v ', and by flicking between the two series in adjacent browser tabs, it even appears than XP was better protected/had slightly better protection results overall, than Windows 7 - at least, there is/was no significant difference.

I've no doubt Windows 7 would fare better than XP, comparing both without AV/IS protection (neither use case advisable) - but with AV/IS, it's just as safe.
As for never having a problem, I'd suggest booting into a different OS and scanning your drives with multiple AV scanners (as malware can more easily hide when booting into an already infected OS).

You may be surprised at what you find.
You really need to stop your continual default presumption of 'I think I probably know better than you do'.

Repeatedly, you only succeed in coming across as an arrogant, conceited and self-important/know it all (which you plainly don't).

No - I would not "...be surprised" at all.

Not only has my PC been fully scanned by Avira, and Bitdefender, and Ad-Aware 11 (basically Bitdefender again) - but I have also, on occasion scanned from outside the OS using a bootable DVD (namely Avira's 'rescue disc').

And for what it's worth - I even know that there are actually 3 file 'detections' on my HDD as reported by Avira - but I also know exactly how they got there, and that they are essentially completely harmless.

It's also very interesting to note that Bitdefender doesn't actually flag/detect any of them, even though one of them appears (according to VirusTotal's multi AV scan result ) to be a 'FakeAV_Alert' type.
Again, I can't afford to get a malware infection, especially since I have Admin access to web sites that I help to maintain, and I don't want to put those sites (and our users) at risk.

So, I take a lot of extra precautions.
Most people take sufficient/more than adequate precautions.

Unless you were hosting the site on your own machines, cross-infection would be highly unlikely.

If it was that easy to infect a forum site, then just about every popular forum would be infested with malware.

Thousand of companies, big and small, all over the world still run millions of Windows clients (and a great many still using XP), and they have a heck of a lot more at stake than some poxy Internet forum - yet they are not cowling in terror.

Shying away from ever using Windows and/or IE, just for fear of malware, is pure paranoia - and such paranoia is essentially born out of ignorance and/or a gross over-exaggeration of the actual level of any risk.
 
Last edited:
XP is still, to this day, a very good OS - it is still the second most widely used OS with over 30% of user share.
I like XP but now that it is unsupported, it's pretty vulnerable to new buffer overrun exploits of which I am sure there are many yet to be discovered.
Most people take sufficient/more than adequate precautions.
I don't think that assertion is supported by the facts.

Thousands of machines are newly infected every day. 30,000 a day just in Australia according to their government.

I'm not a fan of self-serving studies pushed out by the AV industry. But there's significant evidence that a very significant proportion of all the machines in use today contain at least one infection; maybe 30-50%.

In the US, someone is the victim of identity theft about once every 3 seconds (12.6 million in the US in 2012). Fortunately, I was not one of them but I do know some victims and I can assure you it can be a major life-changing and very unpleasant event.

User education is part of the problem and poor software design from major corporations is another.

But, seriously, given the systems and software we have today, most people are failing to take anything like adequate precautions.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top