Scanning negatives to digital with goal of large prints

Martin Pollack

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RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.

In order to achieve that size with good quality what resolution and file format is necessary???

I had planned to scan at a 4000 dpi resolution but I am not certain if I need to create TIFF files or if JPEG will be sufficient ( and if JPEG, what is the minimum quality JPEG needed )?

I appreciate any guidance.
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.

In order to achieve that size with good quality what resolution and file format is necessary???

I had planned to scan at a 4000 dpi resolution but I am not certain if I need to create TIFF files or if JPEG will be sufficient ( and if JPEG, what is the minimum quality JPEG needed )?

I appreciate any guidance.
Top quality jpg is normally fine, unless the printer is using a 16 bit RIP, in which case I'd send a 16 bit tif in Adobe RGB.

more important though, what is the film format, and what scanner? 4000 ppi scans of 35mm are very different than MF or 4x5. As well, 4000 ppi from a drum or high end scanner is very different than a consumer flatbed.
 
What size are the originals ? 35mm or medium format ?

TIFF is definitely better than JPG and should be 16-bit if you are going to do any adjustment in Lightroom or Photoshop.

If you are going to spend the cost of a large print, there is no point in skimping on the file format.

Not all scanners that claim 4000 dpi really give any more detail above 3200 dpi, But the scan will not be worse.

If using a 4000x6000 pixel camera to "scan", there is again some loss because of the Bayer mosaic.
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.
Most likely you will need to use something in addition to Lightroom. Scanning will result with dust that needs to be cloned/healed out. This will be extensive and Lightroom's clone tool wasn't designed for mass use. Even with auto software removal of dust, further removal is usually needed in part because the auto function may think something is dust when it is part of the image and it could be rather heavy handed ruining the detail of the image.
In order to achieve that size with good quality what resolution and file format is necessary???
You didn't mention what you'll be using to scan. For prints that large, a flatbed scanner would not be a first or second choice. You'll need a dedicated film scanner and not one that simply takes a digital image of it like a P&S camera does.
I had planned to scan at a 4000 dpi resolution but I am not certain if I need to create TIFF files or if JPEG will be sufficient ( and if JPEG, what is the minimum quality JPEG needed )?
With all the dust removal you'll need to do, scanning to TIFF will be required so you aren't saving and resaving, recompressing the JPG during that process.
 
I could add, that there is a learning curve in order to get where you wish to go. It might be more optimal to choose specific frames and have them done professionally.

Whether it's Nikon 8000-9000 (and no support) or a decent drum scanner, you are likely looking upwards of $3k....for a used one.

Leswick
 
I could add, that there is a learning curve in order to get where you wish to go. It might be more optimal to choose specific frames and have them done professionally.

Whether it's Nikon 8000-9000 (and no support) or a decent drum scanner, you are likely looking upwards of $3k....for a used one.
Consider

Digital camera scanning technique: comparison against an Epson v700 (and a drum)
http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00b7Fk

Which is cheap if you already have a decent DSLR/mirrorless body and macro lens(es) and suitable software and don't mind investing some sweat equity. Probably not the way to go if you don't.

Wayne
 
I could add, that there is a learning curve in order to get where you wish to go. It might be more optimal to choose specific frames and have them done professionally.

Whether it's Nikon 8000-9000 (and no support) or a decent drum scanner, you are likely looking upwards of $3k....for a used one.

Leswick
VueScan software from Hamrick.com offers full support for over 1200 different scanner models including the Nikon film scanners. (I don't work for them. Just a very satisfied customer.)

Look for a scanner with digital ICE technology to have it automatically remove dust and scratches. Saves a lot of time and effort. Worth it's weight in gold!
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.
Most likely you will need to use something in addition to Lightroom. Scanning will result with dust that needs to be cloned/healed out. This will be extensive and Lightroom's clone tool wasn't designed for mass use. Even with auto software removal of dust, further removal is usually needed in part because the auto function may think something is dust when it is part of the image and it could be rather heavy handed ruining the detail of the image.
This seems to vary from film to film as well, when using digital ICE to remove dust from old family shots I found Kodachrome generally caused more problems than other slide films.
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.
Most likely you will need to use something in addition to Lightroom. Scanning will result with dust that needs to be cloned/healed out. This will be extensive and Lightroom's clone tool wasn't designed for mass use. Even with auto software removal of dust, further removal is usually needed in part because the auto function may think something is dust when it is part of the image and it could be rather heavy handed ruining the detail of the image.
I use Lightroom for all my 4000dpi film scans, including spotting any remaining dust. Lightroom's spooting tool is perfect for that. It's unique realtime preview adjustment of that tool is awesome.
In order to achieve that size with good quality what resolution and file format is necessary???
You didn't mention what you'll be using to scan. For prints that large, a flatbed scanner would not be a first or second choice. You'll need a dedicated film scanner and not one that simply takes a digital image of it like a P&S camera does.
I had planned to scan at a 4000 dpi resolution but I am not certain if I need to create TIFF files or if JPEG will be sufficient ( and if JPEG, what is the minimum quality JPEG needed )?
With all the dust removal you'll need to do, scanning to TIFF will be required so you aren't saving and resaving, recompressing the JPG during that process.
 
What scanner do you have?

See my bookmarks as I have bookmarked threads about scanning
 
Have you had a chance to read the responses and answer the questions? Without that, we really cant help.
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.
Most likely you will need to use something in addition to Lightroom. Scanning will result with dust that needs to be cloned/healed out. This will be extensive and Lightroom's clone tool wasn't designed for mass use. Even with auto software removal of dust, further removal is usually needed in part because the auto function may think something is dust when it is part of the image and it could be rather heavy handed ruining the detail of the image.
I use Lightroom for all my 4000dpi film scans, including spotting any remaining dust. Lightroom's spooting tool is perfect for that. It's unique realtime preview adjustment of that tool is awesome.
Real time is nice, but if you have a lot of spots to do I would not recommend it.
In order to achieve that size with good quality what resolution and file format is necessary???
You didn't mention what you'll be using to scan. For prints that large, a flatbed scanner would not be a first or second choice. You'll need a dedicated film scanner and not one that simply takes a digital image of it like a P&S camera does.
I had planned to scan at a 4000 dpi resolution but I am not certain if I need to create TIFF files or if JPEG will be sufficient ( and if JPEG, what is the minimum quality JPEG needed )?
With all the dust removal you'll need to do, scanning to TIFF will be required so you aren't saving and resaving, recompressing the JPG during that process.
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.
Most likely you will need to use something in addition to Lightroom. Scanning will result with dust that needs to be cloned/healed out. This will be extensive and Lightroom's clone tool wasn't designed for mass use. Even with auto software removal of dust, further removal is usually needed in part because the auto function may think something is dust when it is part of the image and it could be rather heavy handed ruining the detail of the image.
I use Lightroom for all my 4000dpi film scans, including spotting any remaining dust. Lightroom's spooting tool is perfect for that. It's unique realtime preview adjustment of that tool is awesome.
Real time is nice, but if you have a lot of spots to do I would not recommend it.
Why?
In order to achieve that size with good quality what resolution and file format is necessary???
You didn't mention what you'll be using to scan. For prints that large, a flatbed scanner would not be a first or second choice. You'll need a dedicated film scanner and not one that simply takes a digital image of it like a P&S camera does.
I had planned to scan at a 4000 dpi resolution but I am not certain if I need to create TIFF files or if JPEG will be sufficient ( and if JPEG, what is the minimum quality JPEG needed )?
With all the dust removal you'll need to do, scanning to TIFF will be required so you aren't saving and resaving, recompressing the JPG during that process.
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.
Most likely you will need to use something in addition to Lightroom. Scanning will result with dust that needs to be cloned/healed out. This will be extensive and Lightroom's clone tool wasn't designed for mass use. Even with auto software removal of dust, further removal is usually needed in part because the auto function may think something is dust when it is part of the image and it could be rather heavy handed ruining the detail of the image.
This seems to vary from film to film as well, when using digital ICE to remove dust from old family shots I found Kodachrome generally caused more problems than other slide films.
Early versions of Digital ICE did not play well with Kodachrome. However, from version 4 and on, it works very well with Kodachrome. I have had great success with it!
 
I mentioned *no support* (above) for Nikon scanners = no tech support or repairs. If there are still places that do this type of work, they are rare and expensive.

Leswick
 

If you scan Kodachrome with ICE on a non supporting scanner it will damage the scan quality. If you don't have a 9000 ED or HR500 you may have to use other software like Silverfast that makes use of the infrared channel, if the scanner has one.
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.
Most likely you will need to use something in addition to Lightroom. Scanning will result with dust that needs to be cloned/healed out. This will be extensive and Lightroom's clone tool wasn't designed for mass use. Even with auto software removal of dust, further removal is usually needed in part because the auto function may think something is dust when it is part of the image and it could be rather heavy handed ruining the detail of the image.
I use Lightroom for all my 4000dpi film scans, including spotting any remaining dust. Lightroom's spooting tool is perfect for that. It's unique realtime preview adjustment of that tool is awesome.
Real time is nice, but if you have a lot of spots to do I would not recommend it.
Why?

LR is a memory hog of a program and is slow for a function like that. A simple program like photoshop elements is faster. LR forces you to choose each time where to sample from. If you don't it guesses for you. With PSE you can choose your sample point and leave it in the same place for many clone function uses.

Plus if you don't do things in the right order, you could be unable undo image adjustment settings in LR if you want to undo them to a time before you did the spot healing and didn't make a Snapshot first. I do my clone/heal on the TIFF, that I have cataloged with LR, in PSE then when I open it in LR, as it always goes to the file on the drive, the dust is gone.
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.
Most likely you will need to use something in addition to Lightroom. Scanning will result with dust that needs to be cloned/healed out. This will be extensive and Lightroom's clone tool wasn't designed for mass use. Even with auto software removal of dust, further removal is usually needed in part because the auto function may think something is dust when it is part of the image and it could be rather heavy handed ruining the detail of the image.
I use Lightroom for all my 4000dpi film scans, including spotting any remaining dust. Lightroom's spooting tool is perfect for that. It's unique realtime preview adjustment of that tool is awesome.
Real time is nice, but if you have a lot of spots to do I would not recommend it.
Why?
LR is a memory hog of a program
Actually, it isn't. It would be a much faster and better app if it actually was. That's coming from someone with 32GB of RAM. I wish it did use a lot of RAM.
and is slow for a function like that.
LR 5 on my system bogs down at around 100 dust corrections and then I simply save the changes to another tif and continue. Even with that extra step it is by far the best tool I have ever used for spotting/dust correcting my high resolution negative scans. Overall my speed is much greater with LR 5 than using any other app for dust correction.
A simple program like photoshop elements is faster.
No, it isn't. There is no realtime adjustment preview of your correction so it is even less effective in addition to being slower. It is also an 8 bit tool.
LR forces you to choose each time where to sample from. If you don't it guesses for you.
If it is guessing for you then how is it forcing you to "choose?" Most times it also guesses perfectly. And for when it doesn't it is much easier and faster to adjust the location of the sample and see the difference in real time as you move the sampled area around. Such functionality does not exist in Elements.
With PSE you can choose your sample point and leave it in the same place for many clone function uses.
Which is a horrible way to dust correct an image.
Plus if you don't do things in the right order, you could be unable undo image adjustment settings in LR if you want to undo them to a time before you did the spot healing and didn't make a Snapshot first. I do my clone/heal on the TIFF, that I have cataloged with LR, in PSE then when I open it in LR, as it always goes to the file on the drive, the dust is gone.
What is preventing someone from dust correcting first in LR before all other edits are done?
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.
Most likely you will need to use something in addition to Lightroom. Scanning will result with dust that needs to be cloned/healed out. This will be extensive and Lightroom's clone tool wasn't designed for mass use. Even with auto software removal of dust, further removal is usually needed in part because the auto function may think something is dust when it is part of the image and it could be rather heavy handed ruining the detail of the image.
I use Lightroom for all my 4000dpi film scans, including spotting any remaining dust. Lightroom's spooting tool is perfect for that. It's unique realtime preview adjustment of that tool is awesome.
Real time is nice, but if you have a lot of spots to do I would not recommend it.
Why?
LR is a memory hog of a program
Actually, it isn't. It would be a much faster and better app if it actually was. That's coming from someone with 32GB of RAM. I wish it did use a lot of RAM.
and is slow for a function like that.
LR 5 on my system bogs down at around 100 dust corrections and then I simply save the changes to another tif and continue. Even with that extra step it is by far the best tool I have ever used for spotting/dust correcting my high resolution negative scans. Overall my speed is much greater with LR 5 than using any other app for dust correction.
A simple program like photoshop elements is faster.
No, it isn't. There is no realtime adjustment preview of your correction so it is even less effective in addition to being slower. It is also an 8 bit tool.
LR forces you to choose each time where to sample from. If you don't it guesses for you.
If it is guessing for you then how is it forcing you to "choose?" Most times it also guesses perfectly. And for when it doesn't it is much easier and faster to adjust the location of the sample and see the difference in real time as you move the sampled area around. Such functionality does not exist in Elements.
With PSE you can choose your sample point and leave it in the same place for many clone function uses.
Which is a horrible way to dust correct an image.
Plus if you don't do things in the right order, you could be unable undo image adjustment settings in LR if you want to undo them to a time before you did the spot healing and didn't make a Snapshot first. I do my clone/heal on the TIFF, that I have cataloged with LR, in PSE then when I open it in LR, as it always goes to the file on the drive, the dust is gone.
What is preventing someone from dust correcting first in LR before all other edits are done?
In my experience with dust spotting hundreds of slide scans, the "Blemish Remover" tool in PaintShop Pro is far better, faster and more convenient to use than the equivalent tool in Photoshop Elements. It works on 16-bit images too.
There is also an excellent scratch removal tool in PSP.
I can't comment on the full Photoshop since I don't use it (and having tried it, I don't use Elements either).
 
RE Scanning negatives to digital--I am expecting to edit the digital image (n LR most likely ) and want to produce larger color prints e.g. 16x20 or 20 x24.
Most likely you will need to use something in addition to Lightroom. Scanning will result with dust that needs to be cloned/healed out. This will be extensive and Lightroom's clone tool wasn't designed for mass use. Even with auto software removal of dust, further removal is usually needed in part because the auto function may think something is dust when it is part of the image and it could be rather heavy handed ruining the detail of the image.
I use Lightroom for all my 4000dpi film scans, including spotting any remaining dust. Lightroom's spooting tool is perfect for that. It's unique realtime preview adjustment of that tool is awesome.
Real time is nice, but if you have a lot of spots to do I would not recommend it.
Why?
LR is a memory hog of a program
Actually, it isn't. It would be a much faster and better app if it actually was. That's coming from someone with 32GB of RAM. I wish it did use a lot of RAM.
and is slow for a function like that.
LR 5 on my system bogs down at around 100 dust corrections and then I simply save the changes to another tif and continue. Even with that extra step it is by far the best tool I have ever used for spotting/dust correcting my high resolution negative scans. Overall my speed is much greater with LR 5 than using any other app for dust correction.
A simple program like photoshop elements is faster.
No, it isn't. There is no realtime adjustment preview of your correction so it is even less effective in addition to being slower. It is also an 8 bit tool.
LR forces you to choose each time where to sample from. If you don't it guesses for you.
If it is guessing for you then how is it forcing you to "choose?" Most times it also guesses perfectly. And for when it doesn't it is much easier and faster to adjust the location of the sample and see the difference in real time as you move the sampled area around. Such functionality does not exist in Elements.
With PSE you can choose your sample point and leave it in the same place for many clone function uses.
Which is a horrible way to dust correct an image.
Plus if you don't do things in the right order, you could be unable undo image adjustment settings in LR if you want to undo them to a time before you did the spot healing and didn't make a Snapshot first. I do my clone/heal on the TIFF, that I have cataloged with LR, in PSE then when I open it in LR, as it always goes to the file on the drive, the dust is gone.
What is preventing someone from dust correcting first in LR before all other edits are done?
In my experience with dust spotting hundreds of slide scans, the "Blemish Remover" tool in PaintShop Pro is far better, faster and more convenient to use than the equivalent tool in Photoshop Elements. It works on 16-bit images too.
There is also an excellent scratch removal tool in PSP.
I can't comment on the full Photoshop since I don't use it (and having tried it, I don't use Elements either).
I don't use Elements for spotting.
 

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