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Does anyone shoot in genuine low light?

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woof woof said:
woof woof said:
in that case, i welcome the EVF. it helps me not only compose (and i use the term very loosely), but sometimes focus as well. i tried low light (at dusk, no ambient lighting) on my sister's DSLR, and the OVF was so dark I could barely see anything. and I could see pretty well in that light with my own eyes. it's one of the reasons I wouldn't switch to an OVF.
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Great.

Is that with your GH2? And you didn't find that the EVF's light output was an issue?
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it never bothered me. then again, we are talking about lighting conditions that allow photos to be taken, and not pitch black environments. i actually stayed up in the dark one night trying to take pictures of a lightning storm, but i was not really using the EFV, because i couldn't see anything through it anyway.

some people also complain that Panasonic has dull colors, but i also find that it often matches the real scene, and that cameras that produce "nice jpegs" actually increase the saturation.

i'm trying to say that it may not be the EVF (although some variation between camera models is to be expected), but it could be that your eyes have a slower speed adapting to different lighting conditions.

also, there is a setting for the display brightness, but i'm not sure it applies to the EVF. i have that set to the lowest value, to save power.
 
Thanks all.

As people don't seem to know what I'm talking about :D I'm hoping that this issue is fixed with the newer cameras so I've taken the plunge and ordered a new CSC :D

The right thing to do would be to wait and either try one at a camera shop that's willing to let me step outside in the dark (winter) or hire a camera or two but as getting to a specialist camera dealer is a problem for me I'm just taking a leap of faith and if I can't use it in low light I'll keep my 5D for that use.

Thanks all :D
 
Nope I have never shot under truly dark skies. Mag 6 or perhaps 7 is about as dark as I have ever seen. I really would love to go to a true dark site one day.

Sixteen exposures of 4 minutes each, ISO 400, with 800mm F4.0 telescope on a little CG-5 mount. This was in my "Red Zone" backyard on a humid but clear day.


M42 Orion's Nebula


M33

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8PM, overcast, and in forest... I could barely see the trail. Used the LCD tho, not the EVF



In this case I used the VF... didn't find myself blinded by the EVF (E-M5)



--
Art P
"I am a creature of contrast,
of light and shadow.
I live where the two play together,
I thrive on the conflict"
 

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woof woof said:
I have a G1 and one major issue with it is its EVF's high light output which even with everything adjusted for best effect makes it (for me) unusable in genuine low light. As soon as I raise the camera to my eye night vision is gone and it's like having a torch shining directly into my eye. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about ISO 1600 on a well lit suburban street when there's enough light to read a newspaper, I'm talking about genuine low light such as really dingy venues and out of town night time shooting.

Here's what my G1 does...
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I know what you mean about the G1. It ruins your night vision as soon as you look through the EVF. Any EVF will do that to some degree. I find the GX7 to be an improvement over my G1 and GH2 in that regard. It's auto dimming works pretty well.
 
I do like shots without flash too, but more often than not, I use flash.

I really wish Olympus would build a camera with a EVF and built in flash.
 
These are all night shots, taken with a G3, some of them so dark the subject was hardly visible with the naked eye. I use manual focus, a tripod, and sometimes flash. I'll open up the aperture to brighten up the EVF enough to see, focus the lens, then stop down for the shot. If it's too dark for that, I'll pull out a flashlight to help get focus.



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larsbc said:
woof woof said:
I have a G1 and one major issue with it is its EVF's high light output which even with everything adjusted for best effect makes it (for me) unusable in genuine low light. As soon as I raise the camera to my eye night vision is gone and it's like having a torch shining directly into my eye. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about ISO 1600 on a well lit suburban street when there's enough light to read a newspaper, I'm talking about genuine low light such as really dingy venues and out of town night time shooting.

Here's what my G1 does...
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I know what you mean about the G1. It ruins your night vision as soon as you look through the EVF. Any EVF will do that to some degree. I find the GX7 to be an improvement over my G1 and GH2 in that regard. It's auto dimming works pretty well.
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Great stuff, thanks.

I've gone for a Sony A7 but I may very well (probably) pick up a GX7 too as I want to run the two systems, the A7 will (I hope...) replace my 5D and the GX7 will be used on days that are more for family than photography plus its built in flash will be useful for snaps.
 
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woof woof said:
eastvillager said:
I would think thats a great advantage. If you're looking for reality get an optical viewfinder camera like the Fuji x100s or a Leica. I for one think EVF's are amazing.
woof woof said:
I have a G1 and one major issue with it is its EVF's high light output which even with everything adjusted for best effect makes it (for me) unusable in genuine low light. As soon as I raise the camera to my eye night vision is gone and it's like having a torch shining directly into my eye. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about ISO 1600 on a well lit suburban street when there's enough light to read a newspaper, I'm talking about genuine low light such as really dingy venues and out of town night time shooting.
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Reality... I've been taking pictures for over 40 years and currently have a 5D.

Yes, EVF's are great and I have a camera with one and I love it in good light but I can't useit in low light and so I'm asking for feedback from owners of newer cameras. You dig, dude... :D
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On the one hand, I have a G1 and it is a later model. So you indicated that yours was an early production model and that may explain your symptoms as you described them. There may have been changes in production.

On the other hand while I consider my G1 to be very fine, I would never attempt to use it for genuine low light conditions. I reserve that for my camera with the 16 mp sensor.
 
I have a GH1 and GF1, the latter has the same sensor as the G1. I have an EVF for both (one built in and similar to the G1, and the optional LVF1 is a low res EVF, more akin to that on the G10.

Regardless, I agree that in low light, the EVF destroys your night vision and that it really struggles. The 60Hz refresh rate in low light does not nearly display what you can see in with the naked eye, often turning into a noisy mess.

I also have a GX1 and LVF2, and while the same bright light effect is there, the 120 hz refresh rate is worlds better as far as detail and noise go.

Current high end gear have refresh rates in the 240 Hz rate, so it should be even better, but I cannot speak to the high gain from the EVF as no one actually has an example of the EM1 or the GX7 that I can touch.

Based on my experiences with the GF1 and the GH1, neither are what I call low light machines. Images become pretty bad beyond 1600, less so for the GF1, but I do not have anything faster than the 20 1.7, anything else is 3.5 or higher max aperture, except for a couple of Nikkor lenses which are 2.0, 2.5 and 2.8

The only camera that seems to go where you want may be the EM1. I dont know of auto dimming features on the GH3 or the GX7.
 
I shoot in near dark to dark conditions (such that its not always possible to see the subject without the focus assist light), using the EM-5 and now the EM-1. (astrophotography and the like)

So long as I don't have the Live View boost on or EVF brightness adjusted upward I haven't seen the problem you are talking about, the EVF remains dark whilst focusing and taking the shot

(I've just repeated the exercise with the EM-1 as I was surprised to read the comment that it was a problem. totally dark room, focusing on a picture on the wall using the focus assist light - the Viewfinder remained totally dark apart from seeing the orange focus light)

Pre EM series bodies I shot canon for 10+ years, from 300D onward and upward to 5Dmk2
 
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woof woof said:
Taj...

I'm not really looking for examples of high ISO shots, been shooting for over 40 years so that side of it doesn't bother me too much and what I'm interested in is your experience of shooting in very low light and if the light output from the EVF was an issue.
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Late to the reply party, but yes I do - occasionally - in theatres where the subject is very brightly lit and the surrounds are pitch black. I haven't found the EVF brightness an issue blinding me (GH2 has a setting for EVF/LCD brightness) but it is a great distraction to people who are watching the performance. I tend to turn off the LCD/flip it round. I suppose, also the GH2 doesn't have as bright an EVF as the G1 and the yellowish colour cast makes it less 'sharp' - you could force the EVF colour balance to the red end to be less blinding - again a setting in the menus. If that isn't enough, try red glasses - works well in astro to prevent light blindness.

C
 
Ost said:
I recently shot at night with the gx1 + lvf2 combo trying to do some lightpainting.

The experience was very blinding, the vf was too bright and I haven't seen an option to adjust its brightness. I had to minimize the time I was looking at it, as it was plain painful.

There really needs to be an option to adjust the brightness, if I missed it somewhere in the menus, maybe someone can point it out ;)

Have a look at the lightpainting attemt if you want ^_^
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The EVF for the NEX_F3, 5N, 5R/T is called an 'FDA EV1S-1.'

It may be that when shooting with it on at night, focus-peaking needs to be turned off. Could that be the cause of your 'darkness?'

"FDA-EV1S Electronic Viewfinder for NEX-5N Digital Camera (Camera) The FDA-EV1S is another quality accessory from Sony that does exactly what you expect from a viewfinder. The resolution outclasses just about any other EVF currently available for other cameras of this type in terms of resolution (by a long shot) and it can rival the effectiveness of a DSLR's optical viewfinder when trying to manually focus and compose your shots. If you use adapters to attach legacy lenses (Leica, CV, etc) to your NEX-5N, your ability to accurately nail the manual focus will be greatly increased even with the focus peaking turned off. In fact, when using my Leica 50mm summilux on the NEX-5N, I found it easier to focus in dim light with a shallow DOF (at f/1.4) with the NEX-5N using the EVF than with the same lens on my M9 with its rangefinder focus coupling. What helped the most here is that like the rear LCD display, the EVF will show you the actual exposure as it's "brightened up" by the NEX-5N sensor's superior high ISO performance. No doubt, the EVF brings out the most out of the camera. With the EVF, I have turned off the focus peaking feature on the NEX-5N simply because the EVF is able to resolve any particular area that I'm trying to focus on in my compositions, and there's no longer a need for focus peaking. In certain instances, the focus peaking actually becomes a problem because it would obscure the specific areas I would try to focus on that is already easily visible with the EVF."

https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/pr...r773q&ekdata=0cb7240fbe2d3f0cac0ad821bd5163bb

Steve
 
On the GX7 there are two controls to vary the "brightness" of the LVF and or the LCD.

Pages 63 and 64 of the USA manual. One is called Monitor Luminance, with it you can vary 4 variables on the LVF and the LCD. The other is called Monitor Display only for adjusting brightness of the LCD. I use them when dark shooting to try (not very successfully to preserve my visual purple.)

I hope that this helps,

Tom
 
It's interesting that some people don't see the G1 as a low light camera but I would other than the light output issue. I find that ISO 3200 can be cleaned up to look good and in any case that's just an issue if shooting hand held or keeping the shutter speed up for some reason, mount the camera and use low ISO and image quality is fine IMVHO.



I've loaded a few GF1 (the same image quality as the G1 far as I can see) ISO 1600 hand held low light shots into my gallery if anyone is interested and this is a G1 test shot I remembered doing at 3200... whole image and 100% crop which I think is ok quality...



 
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woof woof said:
I have a G1 and one major issue with it is its EVF's high light output which even with everything adjusted for best effect makes it (for me) unusable in genuine low light.
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Can't you adjust the EVF brightness? If so, try it not with LCD menu but with menu via EVF. I did that with one of my Panasonics, just don't recall which one.
 
woof woof said:
It's interesting that some people don't see the G1 as a low light camera but I would other than the light output issue. I find that ISO 3200 can be cleaned up to look good and in any case that's just an issue if shooting hand held or keeping the shutter speed up for some reason, mount the camera and use low ISO and image quality is fine IMVHO.

I've loaded a few GF1 (the same image quality as the G1 far as I can see) ISO 1600 hand held low light shots into my gallery if anyone is interested and this is a G1 test shot I remembered doing at 3200... whole image and 100% crop which I think is ok quality...



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Nice work!

I am trying to learn some low noise techniques ... to avoid HDR and a tripod when/if possible.

I experimented with my GX7 earlier tonight .... very high luminance range in low light. Shot this from the road at ISO 200, cleaned up in LR4.3:

OOC RAW converted in LR4.3 ---- exposed to just blow the bright portion of the sky.
OOC RAW converted in LR4.3 ---- exposed to just blow the bright portion of the sky.

Black point: +100, Shadows +100, Exposure: +3, highlights backed off, some clarity, some luminance noise reduction. Obviously a HDR candidate ... if I really WANTED that image.
Black point: +100, Shadows +100, Exposure: +3, highlights backed off, some clarity, some luminance noise reduction. Obviously a HDR candidate ... if I really WANTED that image.

I should've shot my GH2 and LX7 side by side for a comparison but I am not a fan of shooting from teh side of a busy highway! .... besides I was more interested in what I could get out of my NEW CAMERA! :-D

Lotsa fun, eh?

t
 
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PC Wheeler said:
woof woof said:
I have a G1 and one major issue with it is its EVF's high light output which even with everything adjusted for best effect makes it (for me) unusable in genuine low light.
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Can't you adjust the EVF brightness? If so, try it not with LCD menu but with menu via EVF. I did that with one of my Panasonics, just don't recall which one.
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GeorgianBay1939 said:
Nice work!

I am trying to learn some low noise techniques ... to avoid HDR and a tripod when/if possible.

I experimented with my GX7 earlier tonight .... very high luminance range in low light. Shot this from the road at ISO 200, cleaned up in LR4.3:

I should've shot my GH2 and LX7 side by side for a comparison but I am not a fan of shooting from teh side of a busy highway! .... besides I was more interested in what I could get out of my NEW CAMERA! :-D

Lotsa fun, eh?

t
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Yeah, I like to avoid tripods if at all possible.

Those images look lovely and I may just get myself a GX7 next year as I want to continue to run both FF and MFT.

I can recommend legacy lenses on MFT :D I mostly use Minolta Rokkors and they're lovely things to use, also have the Voigtlander 25mm f0.95 which is IMVHO a work of art :D
 
woof woof said:
GeorgianBay1939 said:
Nice work!

I am trying to learn some low noise techniques ... to avoid HDR and a tripod when/if possible.

I experimented with my GX7 earlier tonight .... very high luminance range in low light. Shot this from the road at ISO 200, cleaned up in LR4.3:

I should've shot my GH2 and LX7 side by side for a comparison but I am not a fan of shooting from teh side of a busy highway! .... besides I was more interested in what I could get out of my NEW CAMERA! :-D

Lotsa fun, eh?

t
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Yeah, I like to avoid tripods if at all possible.
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Me too. I tend to be a shooter of opportunity as I always have my cameras with me and shoot whenever I see something interesting. Like those clouds in the image above. I am not a photog who "goes on a shoot". I just make images of scenes that I like, whenever I see them.
woof woof said:
Those images look lovely and I may just get myself a GX7 next year as I want to continue to run both FF and MFT.
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Thank you. I posted my GX7 experiences, good and bad, here:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52307485 It is a good little "walkabout" camera!!!
woof woof said:
I can recommend legacy lenses on MFT :D I mostly use Minolta Rokkors and they're lovely things to use, also have the Voigtlander 25mm f0.95 which is IMVHO a work of art :D
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I am not at that stage YET. BUT I must admit that I have drooled over the Voigtlander 25.

Soooo much to explore/learn. Soooo little time, left!!!!!! Ahh .... One day at a time, eh?

Tom
 
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