FX200: Using high focal lengths to achieve nice blurry background?

vaultwit

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With a DSLR using a telephoto lens at 100mm+ focal length, you can get some really nice out-of-focus, blurry, bokeh-y backgrounds. For example, while taking candid shots of folks during a vacation or outing.

Can you achieve the same effect using the FX200 at high focal lengths too? If you take the same type of shots using the FX200 at, say ~200mm focal length, can you fool some folks into thinking if was taken by a DSLR using a telephoto lens at 200mm, especially in terms of the blurred background and image clarity?

I know the sensor is smaller on the FX200 than a DSLR, so the image quality will never be AS good... But just wanted to get some input from FX200 users. Thanks!
 
With a DSLR using a telephoto lens at 100mm+ focal length, you can get some really nice out-of-focus, blurry, bokeh-y backgrounds. For example, while taking candid shots of folks during a vacation or outing.

Can you achieve the same effect using the FX200 at high focal lengths too? If you take the same type of shots using the FX200 at, say ~200mm focal length, can you fool some folks into thinking if was taken by a DSLR using a telephoto lens at 200mm, especially in terms of the blurred background and image clarity?

I know the sensor is smaller on the FX200 than a DSLR, so the image quality will never be AS good... But just wanted to get some input from FX200 users. Thanks!
Being a small-sensored camera, the FZ200 will have a wider DOF for the same EFL as a DSLR, so using 200mm on the FZ200 won't blur the background as much as the DSLR @200mm. However, the FZ200 does offer that nice, wide f/2.8 at all focal lengths, so it may be possible to get decent results by keeping it wide open and zooming in further (up to 600mm!).

Here's one example taken at 600mm EFL @f/3.5. There's not much to the background (mostly lake water) but you can see how a neighboring reed has been blurred.

FZ200 600mm@f/3.5
FZ200 600mm@f/3.5

DOF is fairly thin.

Here's one from the FZ150 - again at 600mm EFL. The FZ150 doesn't have the constant f/2.8 lens, so this one's 600mm @f/5.2 - it's widest aperture at full zoom.

FZ150 600mm@f/5.2
FZ150 600mm@f/5.2





FZ150 600mm@f/5.2
FZ150 600mm@f/5.2



--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter
 
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With a DSLR using a telephoto lens at 100mm+ focal length, you can get some really nice out-of-focus, blurry, bokeh-y backgrounds. For example, while taking candid shots of folks during a vacation or outing.

Can you achieve the same effect using the FX200 at high focal lengths too? If you take the same type of shots using the FX200 at, say ~200mm focal length, can you fool some folks into thinking if was taken by a DSLR using a telephoto lens at 200mm, especially in terms of the blurred background and image clarity?

I know the sensor is smaller on the FX200 than a DSLR, so the image quality will never be AS good... But just wanted to get some input from FX200 users. Thanks!
Being a small-sensored camera, the FZ200 will have a wider DOF for the same EFL as a DSLR, so using 200mm on the FZ200 won't blur the background as much as the DSLR @200mm. However, the FZ200 does offer that nice, wide f/2.8 at all focal lengths, so it may be possible to get decent results by keeping it wide open and zooming in further (up to 600mm!).

Here's one example taken at 600mm EFL @f/3.5. There's not much to the background (mostly lake water) but you can see how a neighboring reed has been blurred.

FZ200 600mm@f/3.5
FZ200 600mm@f/3.5

DOF is fairly thin.

Here's one from the FZ150 - again at 600mm EFL. The FZ150 doesn't have the constant f/2.8 lens, so this one's 600mm @f/5.2 - it's widest aperture at full zoom.

FZ150 600mm@f/5.2
FZ150 600mm@f/5.2





FZ150 600mm@f/5.2
FZ150 600mm@f/5.2



--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter
Wow! Awesome response! Thanks, I definitely learned something new.

So you're saying, I may be able to achieve similar results, but I'll probably have to zoom more (and move farther back) than I would with a DSLR for equivalent amounts of blur? Could the constant f/2.8 aperture change this?

I forgot to mention, I will mostly be using this camera handheld, to take pictures of people during vacations and outings. So I probably won't be using a tripod very much (if at all).
 
Wow! Awesome response! Thanks, I definitely learned something new.

So you're saying, I may be able to achieve similar results, but I'll probably have to zoom more (and move farther back) than I would with a DSLR for equivalent amounts of blur? Could the constant f/2.8 aperture change this?

I forgot to mention, I will mostly be using this camera handheld, to take pictures of people during vacations and outings. So I probably won't be using a tripod very much (if at all).
The f/2.8 will help as well as the additional focal length. You won't be able to go toe-to-toe with the DSLR but you should be able to get decent results. I used to call my FZ150 a "bokeh maker" and have since upgraded to the FZ200. I've never owned a DSLR (but still have an Olympus OM-2s with 55mm f/1.4 lens) so I can't truly compare my experience with yours - I can only say that I'm happy with my results and can improve them in post-processing when desired.

The FZ200 also has a background defocus feature which you may find useful - I've just not yet played with that. It allows you to "easily set the blurriness of the background while checking the screen" [quoting the FZ200 manual].

Sorry I didn't post more FZ200 examples - my work computer doesn't have many of them and since DPR makes it easy to load images directly from the computer I haven't added many to my gallery - which consists primarily of older FZ150 shots. Since the FZ150 and FZ200 share the same zoom range, the f/2.8 of the FZ200 can only help.
 
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So you're saying, I may be able to achieve similar results, but I'll probably have to zoom more (and move farther back) than I would with a DSLR for equivalent amounts of blur?
I should note that at 600mm EFL with the FZ200 you can get a close as one meter, depending on your subject - so you may not need to move that much further back!

The first (black) dragon fly shot was taken from 10-12 feet away and the flowers were taken from about 3 feet.
 
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So you're saying, I may be able to achieve similar results, but I'll probably have to zoom more (and move farther back) than I would with a DSLR for equivalent amounts of blur?
I should note that at 600mm EFL with the FZ200 you can get a close as one meter, depending on your subject - so you may not need to move that much further back!

The first (black) dragon fly shot was taken from 10-12 feet away and the flowers were taken from about 3 feet.
You're right, the distance is not that bad! Only thing is, I wonder how difficult it might be to take photos of moving people (e.g. children running around) at 600mm...

The reason why I'm going through all this is because, I'm trying to decide between the FZ200 and an entry-level, $500 DSLR such as the Nikon D3200 or Canon T3i. I won't be buying additional lenses, so I'm basically comparing small sensor + long focal length to large sensor + small focal length (55mm max I believe)...

Also, the FZ200 is the best in its class, while those DSLRs are the lowest in theirs. What to do...
 
Here are a few photographs of people:



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ca839411346646a1af1e6ef72cfb535a.jpg



b28c8e56b55d4029866fc98ec5ad5c3a.jpg



89cefab00feb4e54b43ab223cb74d47d.jpg

- Richard
 
You're right, the distance is not that bad! Only thing is, I wonder how difficult it might be to take photos of moving people (e.g. children running around) at 600mm...
You won't be using 600mm all the time and have plenty of intermediate focal lengths to play with. ;-)
The reason why I'm going through all this is because, I'm trying to decide between the FZ200 and an entry-level, $500 DSLR such as the Nikon D3200 or Canon T3i. I won't be buying additional lenses, so I'm basically comparing small sensor + long focal length to large sensor + small focal length (55mm max I believe)...
And with the FZ200 you won't be stuck with one focal length (or a small range) as you might if you don't invest in DSLR glass.

Also pay attention to other features that may be important to you - such as the FZ200's fully-articulating LCD, fast burst modes, outstanding video capabilities, etc. Remember, your looking at getting either the Cadillac of the superzooms or the Yugo of the DSLRs.
Also, the FZ200 is the best in its class, while those DSLRs are the lowest in theirs. What to do...
Amazon has a generous return policy. You could get the FZ200 and run it through its paces - and return it if it doesn't satisfy you.

--

Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter
 
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You're right, the distance is not that bad! Only thing is, I wonder how difficult it might be to take photos of moving people (e.g. children running around) at 600mm...
You won't be using 600mm all the time and have plenty of intermediate focal lengths to play with. ;-)
The reason why I'm going through all this is because, I'm trying to decide between the FZ200 and an entry-level, $500 DSLR such as the Nikon D3200 or Canon T3i. I won't be buying additional lenses, so I'm basically comparing small sensor + long focal length to large sensor + small focal length (55mm max I believe)...
And with the FZ200 you won't be stuck with one focal length (or a small range) as you might if you don't invest in DSLR glass.

Also pay attention to other features that may be important to you - such as the FZ200's fully-articulating LCD, fast burst modes, outstanding video capabilities, etc. Remember, your looking at getting either the Cadillac of the superzooms or the Yugo of the DSLRs.
Also, the FZ200 is the best in its class, while those DSLRs are the lowest in theirs. What to do...
Amazon has a generous return policy. You could get the FZ200 and run it through its paces - and return it if it doesn't satisfy you.

--

Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter
You're definitely right about the Cadillac comparison. I just really want that super clear imagine quality that DSLRs are particularly known for, and I would hate myself if I dished out $500 and wasn't satisfied with the quality. The amazon return thing isn't a bad idea, but I'd have to think about it because I wouldn't feel to comfortable mailing out a $500 item knowing it might get lost in transit. I just wish local stores had one for me to check out, but they don't...

I guess what I really want is for this FZ200 to fool people into thinking its photos were taken by a DSLR ;) Since the FZ200 has a lot of other great features (longer zoom, constant f/2.8, articulated screen, etc) I WANT it to have the same image quality as a DSLR, so I can convince myself to get it... But at the end of the day, it's all about that DSLR-like image quality :(
 
Just hover over the lower right corner of each image to see the EXIF.

As a reference, 108mm=24x (600mm effective)

The rest change in proportion

Sherm
 
I guess what I really want is for this FZ200 to fool people into thinking its photos were taken by a DSLR ;) Since the FZ200 has a lot of other great features (longer zoom, constant f/2.8, articulated screen, etc) I WANT it to have the same image quality as a DSLR, so I can convince myself to get it... But at the end of the day, it's all about that DSLR-like image quality :(
I some cases, the FZ200 results - especially at ISO 100 - will be virtually indistinguishable from the DSLR (for realistic comparisons). However, if you're an looking for the ultimate IQ or are an obsessive pixel peeper, don't bother with the FZ200 as it will never truly measure up.

However, if you base your decision on your intended use of the images - prints to 16x20 inches, viewing on HDTV/computer/tablets, on-line sharing etc. then the FZ200 could more than meet your needs. If you're looking for stellar IQ or great low-light capabilities, then it may disappoint.
 
Just hover over the lower right corner of each image to see the EXIF.

As a reference, 108mm=24x (600mm effective)

The rest change in proportion
Yes - multiply the actual lens focal length reported in the EXIF data (4.5-108) by 5.56 to get the 35mm EFL.
 
I guess what I really want is for this FZ200 to fool people into thinking its photos were taken by a DSLR ;) Since the FZ200 has a lot of other great features (longer zoom, constant f/2.8, articulated screen, etc) I WANT it to have the same image quality as a DSLR, so I can convince myself to get it... But at the end of the day, it's all about that DSLR-like image quality :(
I some cases, the FZ200 results - especially at ISO 100 - will be virtually indistinguishable from the DSLR (for realistic comparisons). However, if you're an looking for the ultimate IQ or are an obsessive pixel peeper, don't bother with the FZ200 as it will never truly measure up.

However, if you base your decision on your intended use of the images - prints to 16x20 inches, viewing on HDTV/computer/tablets, on-line sharing etc. then the FZ200 could more than meet your needs. If you're looking for stellar IQ or great low-light capabilities, then it may disappoint.
 
The reason why I'm going through all this is because, I'm trying to decide between the FZ200 and an entry-level, $500 DSLR such as the Nikon D3200 or Canon T3i. I won't be buying additional lenses, so I'm basically comparing small sensor + long focal length to large sensor + small focal length (55mm max I believe)...
And with the FZ200 you won't be stuck with one focal length (or a small range) as you might if you don't invest in DSLR glass.

Also pay attention to other features that may be important to you - such as the FZ200's fully-articulating LCD, fast burst modes, outstanding video capabilities, etc. Remember, your looking at getting either the Cadillac of the superzooms or the Yugo of the DSLRs.
You're definitely right about the Cadillac comparison. I just really want that super clear imagine quality that DSLRs are particularly known for, and I would hate myself if I dished out $500 and wasn't satisfied with the quality. The amazon return thing isn't a bad idea, but I'd have to think about it because I wouldn't feel to comfortable mailing out a $500 item knowing it might get lost in transit. I just wish local stores had one for me to check out, but they don't...

I guess what I really want is for this FZ200 to fool people into thinking its photos were taken by a DSLR ;) Since the FZ200 has a lot of other great features (longer zoom, constant f/2.8, articulated screen, etc) I WANT it to have the same image quality as a DSLR, so I can convince myself to get it... But at the end of the day, it's all about that DSLR-like image quality :(
I don't know if this helps or not, but I think everyone wants that--top DSLR quality in a non-DSLR (i.e. cheaper, different lens system etc. and more portable) camera. If it's any consolation to you, if you're relying on a kit lens with the T3i etc. you're not going to be getting the great clarity you could get if you bought a high end lens for your dslr anyway.

I took a photo class with a man who spent thousands of dollars on his DSLR lenses and did sports photos that were breathtakingly crisp. I was pretty impressed--and depressed by my own camera--until I realized I find dozens of photos of our local baseball team really boring! They were great pictures technically--and his lenses and camera were amazing-- but, for my taste in pictures, I realized it was a giant, "So what?" to look at them. (lol)

Plua, imo, there's just so much more involved in a "good/great" photo than the crispness of the expensive lens. Then again, I can't afford hundreds--much less thousands--of dollars for lenses so I have to work within my budget and that means "compromise" and "choices" no matter what you get.

"...to fool people into thinking its photos were taken by a DSLR"

I think a better goal would be to get them to think "Wow! Great photo!" :) and I really believe that you can do with any camera, imo, if you have talent--(and, speaking from experience, you can do it with lots of these bridge cameras even if you don't.)

You won't get people here on this forum saying "You took that with an FZ200? It looks exactly like a Canon 6D with top lens!" But for people who -don't- have photography as a serious hobby, it isn't that difficult (in my experience) to "fool" them. Because they don't know much about cameras anyway, lol. "Is it an oil painting or done with acrylic?" "Who cares? It's a masterpiece!"

Most people take photos with their smartphones. When they see you with your big FZ200 they -assume- it's a DSLR. And your photos with a bridge camera are, clarity wise, and reach-wise, and effects-wise so far beyond what most people are capable of with whatever camera they use that "impressing and confusing" them really isn't hard!

Not to go on too long, but mainly I wanted to say, bridge cameras are so much fun--and you can get into post-processing to make your results even better--and balancing "reach, effects, convenience and fun" of a superzoom (plus video) vs. "mediocre lens on a dslr" for me, it would be no contest (unless I really had $4000 or so that I absolutely didn't need or want to use for something else).

P.S. My dslr friends may pixel peep and say their photos have less noise, better bokeh etc. and its all true. But everyone else goes, "I don't see how it could be any better." (I guess if you have lots of friends with dslrs and expensive glass you could have a bigger problem using a superzoom than I do, lol.)
 
Ah I see... Thanks for your thorough and objective explanations, they really are helpful.

How is the FZ200 in low-light anyways, while we're on the topic lol? Is it a lot worse than DSLRs? Sorry, it's rare to find someone who is as knowledge with both this and DSLRs as you, so I'm picking your brain... Hope you don't mind! Much appreciated!
This recent thread contrasting the FZ200 with the Nikon P7700/7800 includes some low-light examples from the FZ200. It isn't terrible, just not its strong suit.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3570050

I'd seriously consider starting with the FZ200 and delay any dive into DSLR or MILC "black hole" until/unless you find you have the need for better. At that point, you should have a better idea what you truly need from a DSLR rather than having buyer's remorse for settling on the low-end bait camera. The FZ200 can likely be sold for fair value (especially since has not yet been refreshed) to fund something "better" if necessary.

Starting with the FZ200 can also prevent IQ remorse, where you decide that the weight, noise, cost, lens changing, etc. of the DSLR aren't for you and you sell it off to get the FZ200 only to discover that you're now hooked on DSLR IQ (whether it's truly necessary or not).

There are a couple of new cameras that may interest you as well - though they'll set you back a few more dollars. Both have larger sensors and a constant f/2.8 in more limited zoom ranges, but would likely meet your needs fairly well and should come closer to DSLR results:
  • Panasonic FZ200: 1/2.3" 12MP sensor, 25-600 EFL zoom range, MSPR: $599 (sells for low-$400's)
  • Olympus Stylus 1: 1/1.7" 12MP sensor, 28-300 EFL zoom range, MSPR: $699
  • Sony RX10: 1" 20MP sensor, 24-200 EFL zoom range, MSPR: $1299
Here's the DPR specification comparison the the three:

FZ200 vs. Stylus 1 vs. RX10

Here's a chart or relative sensor sizes (lifted from Wikipedia):

[ATTACH alt="FZ200=1/2.3", Stylus 1=1/1.7", RX10=1" (same as CX)"]440176[/ATTACH]
FZ200=1/2.3", Stylus 1=1/1.7", RX10=1" (same as CX)

--

Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter
 

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Panasonic FZ200: 1/2.3" 12MP sensor, 25-600 EFL zoom range, MSPR: $599 (sells for low-$400's)
  • Olympus Stylus 1: 1/1.7" 12MP sensor, 28-300 EFL zoom range, MSPR: $699
  • Sony RX10: 1" 20MP sensor, 24-200 EFL zoom range, MSPR: $1299
Here's the DPR specification comparison the the three:

FZ200 vs. Stylus 1 vs. RX10

Here's a chart or relative sensor sizes (lifted from Wikipedia):

[ATTACH alt="FZ200=1/2.3", Stylus 1=1/1.7", RX10=1" (same as CX)"]440176[/ATTACH]
FZ200=1/2.3", Stylus 1=1/1.7", RX10=1" (same as CX)

--
The Stylus and RX10 aren't out yet, though, are they?
 
Thanks everyone for your thorough and thoughtful replies! I really do appreciate them. I am leaning towards, and probably go with, getting this FZ200 instead of a DSLR, for reasons that everyone here has mentioned.

Also, because of sample images like these:
(watch 1080p)

I don't like how the zoom is a lever instead of rotating the barrel, but whatever... I'm sure I'll get used to it.
 
Apologies in advance for the silly question, but if the zoom is done using a lever, how does one know what focal length they are at when zooming? How do they jump to a specific focal length value?

Also, are there any drawbacks to the fact that zooming is not done in the traditional way (via turning the barrel)? Thanks again sorry again for the silly questions....
 
Apologies in advance for the silly question, but if the zoom is done using a lever, how does one know what focal length they are at when zooming? How do they jump to a specific focal length value?
The FZ200 displays a zoom factor bar graph as you zoom. There's no option to show the focal length value in the viewfinder.
Also, are there any drawbacks to the fact that zooming is not done in the traditional way (via turning the barrel)? Thanks again sorry again for the silly questions....
Since these cameras provide decent video capabilities, they typically employ motorized zooms that are preferred for video, where the sliders (either around the shutter or on the lens housing) drive the lens in or out. The sliders drive the motor at two different speeds, depending on how far you move the switch. I suggest visiting a camera retailer and trying a superzoom to see how they work - even if you can't try the FZ200.
 

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