70D, Nikon Df: Is this a tech plateau?

Smartphones may cannibalise the bottom of the camera market - the holiday snappers and candid club photographers - but they won't have any significant impact on the hobbyists and professionals. It's not a question of how much R&D Apple or Samsung put in, it's a question of the amount of light you can get into a small lens and sensor setup, the reach and speed of the camera and its ergonomics. Since phones have to be designed to be as portable as possible, there's never going to be an iPhone that feels comfortable with a 100-400mm lens bolted on the front. And it's never going to have a physics-defying sensor setup which can deliver the same depth of field as an APS-C or full-frame camera.

What's happened over the last decade is that digital photography has led to a boom in hobbyists. The smaller cameras like the Ixus or the A series might have been many people's introduction to digital, but those who have found a passion for photography have migrated either to prosumer models or DSLRs. They haven't done it simply because the image quality is better, they've done it because it's more flexible or more powerful than the smaller model. As with all booms, however, the market has gradually saturated: the vast mass of people who had never owned an SLR but were interested in their digital offspring have bought their cameras. Some will upgrade periodically, perhaps even every cycle, but most will be perfectly happy to keep using their 20D until it falls apart. Sales have therefore slowed, an effect exaggerated by the world's financial problems. Mobile phones meanwhile are something almost entirely driven by fashion - many otherwise sensible people feel the need to upgrade time and time again, simply to be seen to have the latest model. Apple and Samsung are hyping the photographic capabilities of their phones, and no doubt happy snappers are throwing their limited resources that way, but it doesn't follow that phones will replace cameras beyond the bottom of the market. This kind of hype happens with every type of technology: a few years back tablets were going to replace all other computers; then the sales curve folded down, Apple's shares dropped by a third and the hype died back to normal levels. When Blu-ray was launched, people assumed everyone would replace their DVD players and cause another boom, but they were wrong. It's just the way tech-fashionistas think - it's not real life. The digital camera boom lasted longer than most, but it was always fated to end.

What is true is that less money coming in, companies like Canon are trying to eke out as much money as possible from their R&D. We saw this in the widespread use of the same 18MP sensor across the APS-C range. Canon will do everything it can to maintain its margins, but in the end it will have to either cut costs or sacrifice profits if it wants to drop prices and sell volume, or simply accept smaller margins and live as a premium brand. There will always be hobbyists and pros who want to buy their first DSLR, to replace a broken on, or simply who feel the urge to splurge on a new model - Canon's role is to make sure they're there with the right product at the time.
 
I totally agree with what you say. What I said in my comment is just a slight upgrade to a great camera. What I find interesting is most modern computers have at least two to eight processors working in tandem. A four core proc would be something to shoot for in a 7D. A well written software program, the camera can use one, two,three or all four processors working together as needed to save power or Speed. I also think the Sensor in the 70D is just a start of a whole new era of performance for Canon. I think we will see a improved version of this sensor in the new 7D. Just keep at least the dual procs. R.J
 
Canon and Nikon exist for one purpose. To make a profit. Marketing is every thing. If Nikon can make a camera that works on your emotions and pry 3K out of your wallet. The camera offers nothing new in tech. Do you also think that around 24MP apsc sensor should be large enough? How many 4TB hard drives Are you going to fill just with a 7D or 70D? Also I think we will see nothing but even better quality pictures from Canons newest sensor as it matures. A new 5D4?
 
Maybe I'm conflating overall advances with the move from film to digital, but my film cameras all had those dials and rings to set exposure (shutter speed and aperture) and similar, whereas my digital cameras don't. In any case, it seems as if the modern DSLR UI is much more convenient than those dials and rings and knobs, which remind me of the film era. Maybe a current film camera would look more like my current DSLR.

FF
 
I totally agree with what you say. What I said in my comment is just a slight upgrade to a great camera. What I find interesting is most modern computers have at least two to eight processors working in tandem. A four core proc would be something to shoot for in a 7D. A well written software program, the camera can use one, two,three or all four processors working together as needed to save power or Speed. I also think the Sensor in the 70D is just a start of a whole new era of performance for Canon. I think we will see a improved version of this sensor in the new 7D. Just keep at least the dual procs. R.J

But the reason those new computers use those cores is in order to do some very complex math problems at very fast speeds in order to power devices that can't tolerate any visual lag because their interface and, therefore, sales rely on very high resolution graphics and ever more complex programs.

Since the most expensive single thing in the camera is its sensor that is where the money is spent. Quite often the bottleneck of shooting speed is the shutter/mirror mechanism, and it is only recently with the 70D that a really high end processor was required to process so much data to enable the DP PDAF.....but in generation one the money has to go to the new sensor and a radical new processor would have jacked the cost up so much nobody would care about the new AF system.

But I absolutely agree with you on the improvement of processors in higher end camera and that such tech will trickle down to lower models in the future. I think Canon will certainly keep one processor for the 7DII DP PDAF for a really jaw dropping AF (both video and stills) Liveview experience, not to mention improveing the traditional AF sensor. I'd bet on 1080p60 video also, along with all the other new stuff. I think it will be a sub $2k APS-C performance body. Perhaps they know us 7D users are so happy with our four year old camera that they will really have to knock our socks off to get us to upgrade. Here's hoping.
 
LOL. You gotta know Nikon owners! Methinks they'll flock to this camera in droves. Plus they're gonna be digging out every old manual focus lens they can find too. :-)
You think so? Not if the reaction to this product on the Nikon forum is anything to go by - most of them seem to hate it or complain that's it's far too expensive. (But then they are DPR readers too so what else is new?)
Like I said, you gotta know the Nikon crowd (hey I was one for many many years myself). Read those threads. The old guard is just drooling for this camera (though as you point out, maybe not the younger tech shooters).

But I also suspect that when users do start putting on those old Nikkors that they were so desperate to use, that they will suddenly realise "Oh, this old lens really isn't very good is it?" As poor as most old lenses designed for film when used on digital. Then whatever romantic bubble there was will truly burst.
That's for sure. Some of the lenses I was "forced" to shoot with back in the day were junk no matter what the millennium!

Cheers,

R2
 
I bought a factory rebuilt 7D a little over six months ago and am still impressed with this super Canon. With my 60D and 35-350 L. The AF would barely work, 7D is fast and accurate even in low light. Yep low light here in Seattle for the next six months.
 
Maybe I'm conflating overall advances with the move from film to digital, but my film cameras all had those dials and rings to set exposure (shutter speed and aperture) and similar, whereas my digital cameras don't.
Fair enough.
In any case, it seems as if the modern DSLR UI is much more convenient than those dials and rings and knobs, which remind me of the film era.
Not trying to change your mind, but I disagree. :-)
Maybe a current film camera would look more like my current DSLR.
I agree with you there, but I disagree that is better. My ideal camera would have four dials (aperture, shutter, ISO, and compensation), and no mode dial.
 
I bought a factory rebuilt 7D a little over six months ago and am still impressed with this super Canon. With my 60D and 35-350 L. The AF would barely work, 7D is fast and accurate even in low light. Yep low light here in Seattle for the next six months.

Aw, I love Seattle. If DPR would give me a job I'd move there tomorrow.
 
I think "yes" (we have reached a technology plateau) in the sense that, especially for Nikon, it didn't have a new technical advance but wanted to take advantage of the retro craze. So as far as I can tell there's nothing new technologically on the Df. It has the sensor of one previous Nikon camera, the guts of another, and so on. The only new thing is the styling and combination of features from previous Nikon cameras, and I think the styling is nutty. To the degree that form follows function, Nikon has added a whole lot of form that harks to an earlier, now-irrelevant function: film. This still is a digital camera and all those dials just complicate the user interface. It makes no sense to me, and I'm in Nikon's target age group. So I'd have no interest in a Canon that mimicked the look and feel of say an AE1.
I'd agree the Nikon really doesn't have anything new in the way of tech(although its sensor would previously have cost you $6000) but to me it actually looks like its making a more meaningful effort to make a retro interface worthwhile and arguably size saving.

You look at higher end DSLR's(70D/D7100/K-5 and above) and all of them really depend on the top plate LCD for users to view settings from above. The way they get space for this AND the shutter button(plus other controls) on that side of the top plate is by putting that stuff on the big hand grip. The Df cuts down that big grip to look to make the camera smaller so the space just wouldn't be there for an LCD as large with all the settings on it(there is one with some key settings that dials can't give). Using dials allows them to spread out this data to the other side of the viewfinder.

You look at other retro cameras and to me they seem more like mere revivalism, they look to replicate control systems from old rangefinders while ignoring the differences in tech since, no ISO readout(that obviously much more important on digital), no readout of the meters recommendations etc.

You could argue you can see more settings more easily with the Df than you can with your typical DSLR, looking down you can see aperture, shutter speed, ISO, exposure comp, shutter mode, shooting mode, battery level and shots remaining.
 
Maybe I'm conflating overall advances with the move from film to digital, but my film cameras all had those dials and rings to set exposure (shutter speed and aperture) and similar, whereas my digital cameras don't. In any case, it seems as if the modern DSLR UI is much more convenient than those dials and rings and knobs, which remind me of the film era. Maybe a current film camera would look more like my current DSLR.

FF
Two changes though I'd say, your digital camera's either have a much larger grip than the Df giving more space for controls and the LCD or they lack the same readouts from above forcing you to change settings via menu's.
 

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