Tele converters or a new camera?

oleoleole · Nov 3, 2013

I have a Canon EOS 6D FF camera and I am going to buy Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM in the near future.

And while 70-200mm would cover most of my needs when it comes to reach, I do think of getting more reach for occasional use.

So I think of Canon Extender 1.4x and 2.0x (version 3) or a Canon EOS 70D which will give the 1.6x factor.

With teleconverters I'll get 280mm and 400mm but with cost of the IQ, focus speed and aperture, with the crop camera I will get 320mm but of the cost of the weight and size of another camera.

The price of two teleconverters is more or less the same as the 70D.

After writing this and reading it afterwards, it seems maybe stupid to not buy the camera instead.

I think of getting more reach mainly because of a future safari tour (not planned anything, but one time it will happen). Would 200mm be enough, or should I focus on more reach, anyone with experience on that field?

You may come up with other ideas and combinations, but it has to be Canon stuff (it's not that I am a fan-boi, but since I work for Canon, it doesn't make any sense for me to look at alternatives (mostly)).

Dave Lively · Nov 4, 2013

If the only time you will be needing more than 200mm is for the safari you might be better off renting a really long lens for a couple of weeks.

photoholiko · Nov 4, 2013

The prices for 1.4X & 2.0X at B&H are $499. each, another $400. will buy you a 70D body or you could get a Canon 70-300 IS lens for $649. You have choices.

Lee Jay · Nov 4, 2013

Just get the 2x. That lens is so good optically that it can handle it easily especially on a moderate pixel density camera. I have the same setup. It's terrific wide open but even just 1/3 of a stop down at f/6.3 it's just astounding - basically the same as a 100-400L.
--
Lee Jay

Richard · Nov 4, 2013

I am not going to tell you what to do but the size and weight do not bother me. (some others would think differently) You would also have a backup camera as long as you take both along.
I would get the extra camera if it were me if I did not have a backup camera, I might consider a used or refered 7d if shooting sports, birds in flight, fast moving animals in nature if you can get one cheap enough otherwise the if the 70d will work for you, get that..

The the difference in image quality is about the same. Roll your mouse off and on the image in both of these links (to switch between cameras). The first is F5.6 vs f2.8, the second is f5.6 vs f5.6

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens Image Quality

View the image quality delivered by the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens using ISO 12233 Resolution Chart lab test results. Compare the image quality of this lens with other lenses.

www.the-digital-picture.com

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens Image Quality

View the image quality delivered by the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens using ISO 12233 Resolution Chart lab test results. Compare the image quality of this lens with other lenses.

www.the-digital-picture.com

oleoleole said:
I have a Canon EOS 6D FF camera and I am going to buy Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM in the near future.

And while 70-200mm would cover most of my needs when it comes to reach, I do think of getting more reach for occasional use.

So I think of Canon Extender 1.4x and 2.0x (version 3) or a Canon EOS 70D which will give the 1.6x factor.

With teleconverters I'll get 280mm and 400mm but with cost of the IQ, focus speed and aperture, with the crop camera I will get 320mm but of the cost of the weight and size of another camera.

The price of two teleconverters is more or less the same as the 70D.

After writing this and reading it afterwards, it seems maybe stupid to not buy the camera instead.

I think of getting more reach mainly because of a future safari tour (not planned anything, but one time it will happen). Would 200mm be enough, or should I focus on more reach, anyone with experience on that field?

You may come up with other ideas and combinations, but it has to be Canon stuff (it's not that I am a fan-boi, but since I work for Canon, it doesn't make any sense for me to look at alternatives (mostly)).

oleoleole · Nov 4, 2013

Dave Lively said:
If the only time you will be needing more than 200mm is for the safari you might be better off renting a really long lens for a couple of weeks.

It was more like an example, I would probably use it for other things as well. But it's not like I'm dedicated to that sort of lengths. Look at it like it's nice to have some extra reach, it's a nice feature, but nothing which I really need and must use very often. And I also like to own the item, no risk or hassle, and also that I know I have the equipment I need very close at "all times"

oleoleole · Nov 4, 2013

photoholiko said:
The prices for 1.4X & 2.0X at B&H are $499. each, another $400. will buy you a 70D body or you could get a Canon 70-300 IS lens for $649. You have choices.

I can get 70D as the same price (~) as two extenders (new). The 70-300mm is probably a good lens as well, but it doesn't really appeal to me as it has "only" 100mm more reach. And I believe that 70-300mm which you speak of here, is no match with 70-200 2.8 IS II, maybe even with 2.0x extenders (?!).

oleoleole · Nov 4, 2013

Lee Jay said:
Just get the 2x. That lens is so good optically that it can handle it easily especially on a moderate pixel density camera. I have the same setup. It's terrific wide open but even just 1/3 of a stop down at f/6.3 it's just astounding - basically the same as a 100-400L.
--
Lee Jay

I have been thinking of that as well. I see you own both lenses (if your gear list is updated), the question is why you then own 100-400 if you have 70-200 2.8 IS II+2x ext.?

Looks like a "lot of people" own them both, and say it can't be compared too each other. I dunno if that is viewed with extreme critical eyes and maybe a bit of placebo? As far as I can figure out from your perspective, is that 200-400mm with the 100-400L lens will be faster than 200-400 with 2x extender on 70-200, else IQ is pretty much the same, am I right?

Anyway, so far this maybe look most sensible for me.

Sandy · Nov 4, 2013

I can't comment on your specific TCs and lens combinations but in general 2xTCs rarely provide an advantage over a cropped image without TC. A 1.4xTC doesn't really give much focal length benefit but you will have to ask the Canon forum whether IQ suffers significantly. Much better would be an appreciably longer lens eg 400mm but I don't know what is available for Canon. If the reason is a single safari then you might consider renting a lens. You can manage with just 200mm but forget bird photos and you are likely to miss quite a bit. Yet another alternative is a superzoom - check DPReviews reviews. Clearly these cannot rival a FF Canon for IQ but they would be better than no picture.

oleoleole · Nov 4, 2013

Richard said:
I am not going to tell you what to do but the size and weight do not bother me. (some others would think differently) You would also have a backup camera as long as you take both along.
I would get the extra camera if it were me if I did not have a backup camera, I might consider a used or refered 7d if shooting sports, birds in flight, fast moving animals in nature if you can get one cheap enough otherwise the if the 70d will work for you, get that..

The the difference in image quality is about the same. Roll your mouse off and on the image in both of these links (to switch between cameras). The first is F5.6 vs f2.8, the second is f5.6 vs f5.6

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/...meraComp=736&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=3&APIComp=0

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/...meraComp=736&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=3&APIComp=3

oleoleole said:

I have a Canon EOS 6D FF camera and I am going to buy Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM in the near future.

And while 70-200mm would cover most of my needs when it comes to reach, I do think of getting more reach for occasional use.

So I think of Canon Extender 1.4x and 2.0x (version 3) or a Canon EOS 70D which will give the 1.6x factor.

With teleconverters I'll get 280mm and 400mm but with cost of the IQ, focus speed and aperture, with the crop camera I will get 320mm but of the cost of the weight and size of another camera.

The price of two teleconverters is more or less the same as the 70D.

After writing this and reading it afterwards, it seems maybe stupid to not buy the camera instead.

I think of getting more reach mainly because of a future safari tour (not planned anything, but one time it will happen). Would 200mm be enough, or should I focus on more reach, anyone with experience on that field?

You may come up with other ideas and combinations, but it has to be Canon stuff (it's not that I am a fan-boi, but since I work for Canon, it doesn't make any sense for me to look at alternatives (mostly)).

Click to expand...

Hm, you just made it more complicated with the 7D

Lee Jay · Nov 4, 2013

oleoleole said:
Lee Jay said:

Just get the 2x. That lens is so good optically that it can handle it easily especially on a moderate pixel density camera. I have the same setup. It's terrific wide open but even just 1/3 of a stop down at f/6.3 it's just astounding - basically the same as a 100-400L.
--
Lee Jay

Click to expand...

I have been thinking of that as well. I see you own both lenses (if your gear list is updated), the question is why you then own 100-400 if you have 70-200 2.8 IS II+2x ext.?

I have the 70-200 at home and the 100-400 at work.

John Sheehy · Nov 4, 2013

Sandy said:
I can't comment on your specific TCs and lens combinations but in general 2xTCs rarely provide an advantage over a cropped image without TC.

I don't know what world you live in, but in the real one that I do live in, there is no comparison between a blown-up crop and a quality TC like the Canon 2x III, as long as you achieve focus. By comparison the crop is more pixelated, has more aliasing and demosaicing artifacts, and the TC version with 4x the ISO will have finer noise (and less noise possibly, if the camera is a Canon and it's ISO 100 vs 400 to 400 vs 1600).

Many people seem to be very confused on this topic, and believe they have done equitable comparisons, when in fact, they have not.

Lee Jay · Nov 4, 2013

John Sheehy said:
Sandy said:

I can't comment on your specific TCs and lens combinations but in general 2xTCs rarely provide an advantage over a cropped image without TC.

Click to expand...

I don't know what world you live in, but in the real one that I do live in, there is no comparison between a blown-up crop and a quality TC like the Canon 2x III, as long as you achieve focus. By comparison the crop is more pixelated, has more aliasing and demosaicing artifacts, and the TC version with 4x the ISO will have finer noise (and less noise possibly, if the camera is a Canon and it's ISO 100 vs 400 to 400 vs 1600).

Many people seem to be very confused on this topic, and believe they have done equitable comparisons, when in fact, they have not.

I feel this is an equitable comparison.

--
Lee Jay

Sandy · Nov 5, 2013

John Sheehy said:
Sandy said:

I can't comment on your specific TCs and lens combinations but in general 2xTCs rarely provide an advantage over a cropped image without TC.

Click to expand...

I don't know what world you live in, but in the real one that I do live in, there is no comparison between a blown-up crop and a quality TC like the Canon 2x III, as long as you achieve focus. By comparison the crop is more pixelated, has more aliasing and demosaicing artifacts, and the TC version with 4x the ISO will have finer noise (and less noise possibly, if the camera is a Canon and it's ISO 100 vs 400 to 400 vs 1600).

Many people seem to be very confused on this topic, and believe they have done equitable comparisons, when in fact, they have not.

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Tele converters or a new camera?

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Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens Image Quality

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