Another example of the old adage..... "A picture's worth a thousand words "
And some say photography is dead..... HA !
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Do you need EVF these days?
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GodSpeaks
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I agree, the top EVFs are now getting very good. However, for me, a good OVF is still far superior to any existing EVF. The final hurdle will be to be as good as an OVF when used outdoors on a very bright and sunny day.
As I said in my previous post... choice is good.
As I said in my previous post... choice is good.
I need EVF because I shoot moving subjects, like airplane or train. Therefore, I purchased Lumix G6 instead of Lumix GF5 even though GF5 is more compact.
The view quality of OVF is better than EVF but micro 4/3 models offer EVF which is reasonable and I do not have much complain to the quality because my first priority is to track the moving subject.
I tracked this plane from runaway to departing. The speed was getting faster and pitch angle was unpredictable. It is very difficult to trace it by back LCD only, I believe.
taking off Toronto International Airport taken by Lumix G6 converted from RAW
Jet departing from Toronto International Airport taken by Lumix G6 converted from RAW
The view quality of OVF is better than EVF but micro 4/3 models offer EVF which is reasonable and I do not have much complain to the quality because my first priority is to track the moving subject.
I tracked this plane from runaway to departing. The speed was getting faster and pitch angle was unpredictable. It is very difficult to trace it by back LCD only, I believe.
taking off Toronto International Airport taken by Lumix G6 converted from RAW
Jet departing from Toronto International Airport taken by Lumix G6 converted from RAW
57LowRider
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I wouldn't buy a camera with no viewfinder, end of. Kind of kicked the RX-1 in the nuts as choices go, because I was quite interested until...
Have you tried a Red Dot Sight?
Charles Wass
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An important aspect that I have never seen mentioned when OVFs, EVFs and LCDs are compared is the relative size of the image seen by the eye. In other words the angle subtended at the eye by the viewfinder image, whether via OVF, EVF or LCD. Note that reviews on this site, at least of DSLRs, attempt to deal with this point.
At the "normal" distance (Google this if you don't know what it means) the typical 3" diagonal LCD subtends an angle over the diagonal of 17 degrees, whereas I calculate that my FF DSLR OVF subtends an equivalent angle of about 34 degrees. In other words the image as I see it is twice the size of one seen in the LCD. A crop DSLR will provide a similar angle.
This bigger viewfinder image makes an enormous difference as far as I am concerned.
I have not attempted a comparison for EVFs as their parameters vary so much.
Charlie
At the "normal" distance (Google this if you don't know what it means) the typical 3" diagonal LCD subtends an angle over the diagonal of 17 degrees, whereas I calculate that my FF DSLR OVF subtends an equivalent angle of about 34 degrees. In other words the image as I see it is twice the size of one seen in the LCD. A crop DSLR will provide a similar angle.
This bigger viewfinder image makes an enormous difference as far as I am concerned.
I have not attempted a comparison for EVFs as their parameters vary so much.
Charlie
EinsteinsGhost
Forum Pro
So when you said "knowing your camera", you really meant, trusting it. That is an easy thing to do for anybody. Where it becomes interesting is when you actually know the metering is off, or not what you wanted. I adjust on the fly, with LCD/EVF brightness adjusted to image that will be captured.
pavi1
Veteran Member
I know my camera. It follows my orders. If you don't understand that I cannot help you. Perhaps you need a different camera if yours does not follow your orders.
I have not. I think the Red Dot Sight will help pinpoint shooting but it will be difficult to see whether the object is in a frame or not because I trace the object in the finder and use zoom to keep it in a frame as well.
Because Lumix G6 can move AF point by using LCD touch screen and the AF point is shown in its EVF, I can trace subject with keeping AF point on right spot.
EinsteinsGhost
Forum Pro
Your claims and your practice are at odds. If you don't adjust your exposure on the fly, under the assumption that the camera is very reliable, your claim doesn't fly in practice.
KariP
Veteran Member
When you are over 45 or 50 you will need reading glasses to see the LCD.
I BOUGHT my Fuji X-E1 because it has EVF.
My Canon 7D has a good optical viewfinder - it is good in many ways and i can use it without reading glasses - of course. It is about the weight. DSLR cameras are usually quite heavy and big...
AND EVF is more like a WYSIWYG system - OVF is sometimes quite misleading - you see perfectly everything through the lens , but that is not quite what you will see in the picture after you push the shutter button
I BOUGHT my Fuji X-E1 because it has EVF.
My Canon 7D has a good optical viewfinder - it is good in many ways and i can use it without reading glasses - of course. It is about the weight. DSLR cameras are usually quite heavy and big...
AND EVF is more like a WYSIWYG system - OVF is sometimes quite misleading - you see perfectly everything through the lens , but that is not quite what you will see in the picture after you push the shutter button
Brendan Delaney
Leading Member
Yes definitely.....
I couldn't see the point of a high quality camera like this that has to have a bolt on VF..
I happily switch between OVFs (My film OM4Ti), EVF (My OMD E-M5) and a Rangefinder (Leica Monochrom). Each have their pros and cons.
OVF+ good ones bright and clear, can estimate DOF, but less good with modern OVFs that lack the ground glass, accurate framing and focus check.
OVF- lacks feedback on the actual image, good ones big and heavy, not good in poor light. black out on taking image.
EVF+ good ones bright and clear but appear slightly less 'sharp' than an OVF. Can get slower and noisier in poor light but are still bright. Can adjust EV compensation, WB and DOF and see results in the EVF. Accurate framing and can change image proportions and data position/overlay to suit tastes.
EVF- feel a bit 'electronic' but you get used to it. Tends to put some 'distance' between me and the subject. Can get a slight blackout. Can be be jerky in low light.
RF+ wonderfully bright and clear, can see everything around. No black out. Very 'involving'
RF- Manual focus and can be tricky with repeating patterns. Have to remember which set of 2 frame lines apply. Parallax error, only usable with lenses 28-90mm and then only just with 90. No feedback on anything.
BOTTOM LINE - There is no such thing as a perfect viewing tool!! However the best EVFs are getting very good and offer a good trade off of functions.
For me squinting at an LCD with my reading glasses is a non starter, though I do use the flip out screen on the E-M5 occasionally.
Yes really: reviews and previews say that. I added that to add some uncertainty, so your view is that they are not fast enough. My EPL5 with EVF3 (really a mediocre EVF) is good enough for action. The AF speed is the thing stopping me here most of the time. But I did not buy an EPL5 for sports etc.
pavi1
Veteran Member
When did I ever say that I don't adjust exposure on the fly. What about "my camera follows my orders" do you not understand?
pavi1
Veteran Member
EinsteinsGhost
Forum Pro
You mean what you called exposure chimping?
K E Hoffman
Veteran Member
The EVF on the A77 was the main reason I waited for 2 years to buy one over my old A700 (now in a new home)
The EVF on my new A77 is a benefit to me 95% of the time.
The extra focusing aids it offers are very useful. Some that can be done in OVF and some that can't
It is harder to see in bright sun.. and easier than the OVF to see in lower light.
I am not happy with it.
but NEED is too much of an absolute.. Good enough to replace or improve on an OVF for many people yes.. NEED? No..
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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
The EVF on my new A77 is a benefit to me 95% of the time.
The extra focusing aids it offers are very useful. Some that can be done in OVF and some that can't
It is harder to see in bright sun.. and easier than the OVF to see in lower light.
I am not happy with it.
but NEED is too much of an absolute.. Good enough to replace or improve on an OVF for many people yes.. NEED? No..
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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
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brycesteiner
Senior Member
I found the E-M5 to be very good for sports. it took a little while to get used and settings had to be changed so I could get the screen back again after taking the shot instead of the half second delay. It works great for soccer, volleyball, etc much better than the DSLR cameras I have used.
brycesteiner
Senior Member
MediaArchivist
Veteran Member
Are you sure about that?
I have been told (and re-told) that what you are describing is 100 times worse than the worst OVF. Perhaps you (and I) just don't "get" photography because of a mistaken view of viewfinders?
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