tex
Veteran Member
As others have said, I went for decades without it, in multiple formats.
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Why I don't want IBIS
- Thread starter rishi o'
- Start date
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- sony a7r sony alpha nex-7
Well, you can compare the Olympus E-PM2 with the NEX-5N/R/T, which have nearly the exact same size and weight but the Oly has IBIS. The Oly is indeed fatter, and doesn't have a tilting screen, so it's probable that IBIS adds something to the width. I don't know. Sony seems to be the experts at miniaturizing things, so I'd love to see how much larger a NEX-5/6 could be with IBIS.
(The PM2 IBIS isn't nearly as good as the OMD IBIS, but it's still a big advantage in many situations. I'm pretty sure the 5-axis IBIS of the OMD/EM1 would add a lot of bulk.)
Yeah, but that's a bad argument. Many of us went without AF and AE too, but this doesn't mean photography isn't a lot better with these features. And as I wrote above, you may have been able to take photos without IBIS but there are certain photos you cannot shoot without it (assuming you can't use a tripod or place your camera on some kind of support).
Here's are some examples taken with a dark ND filter:
1/4 second, hand-held, 9mm lens on m43
1/3 second, hand-held, 17mm lens on m43
captura
Forum Pro
You come to the NEX forum to discuss the m43 cameras which may not be against the rules. But you evidently know your own world of m43 cameras very well, either.
The 2-axis IBIS in the E-PM2 is ineffective and best left in the off position as it usually causes more problems than do anything effective. I have read that posted many times on the m43 forum and that is my personal experience, too. (exceptions; one is when I am using my O. 40-150 lens at the 150 mm range.)
The E-PM2 having 2-axis IBIS, is not going to be significantly 'fatter' or 'thinner' and let's leave these silly arguments for the m43 forum to discuss.
Only the 5-axis systems from P. and O. have any real value in MILC. Next generation Sony cameras may get the O. system of miniaturized 5-axis IBIS, similar to the Olympus E-P5.
ApertureAcolyte
Leading Member
Sour grapes huh?
captura
Forum Pro
Why on Earth would anybody want to shoot a sunlit scene at 1/3 second?
Paul712
Forum Enthusiast
For those who are arguing that IBIS is better than OIS, perhaps should convince Nikon and Canon as their professional and semi-proffessionas cameras still do not have IBIS?
-- Paul
-- Paul
tex
Veteran Member
SQLGuy
Forum Pro
If the only photos they will be taking with these lenses are those that require IBIS, then why did they buy these lenses in the first place? What were they using them for all these years when they didn't have a IBIS body, and they certainly didn't have a camera as high-ISO capable as something like an A7?
Yes, now that they realize these lenses were entirely the wrong purchase for them, they should either throw them away, or save them by buying an A99 for FX lenses, or an A77 for DX lenses.
You're not seriously equating IBIS--something built-in to the camera, available at all times under any conditions--with strobes and underwater housings, are you? If so you ought to include tripods too.
It IS a bad argument if you say IBIS isn't needed because you can take pictures without it. It's equating one thing ("taking pictures") with something else ("taking pictures with IBIS") and, as I showed, they're not the same thing.
If you use a venn diagram, one circle ("taking pictures") lies completely within the other circle ("taking pictures with IBIS").
For your information there are many thousands of Sony & ex-Minolta users who have between them millions of AF A-mount lenses & these lenses came into their own when first Minolta & later Sony provided A mount digital cameras which had IBIS , so NO they didn't make wrong purchases.
Yes they could buy a FF A99 if they could afford one & are prepared to carry around a large & heavy camera all day or they might consider an N7 or N7r as a more compact option but then they would hit a snag when they discover that Sony , in their wisdom , have left off the option of IBIS which they provided in all their DSLRs & SLTs up until now....
The answer , of course , is that they don't have to buy these new cameras & most probably won't.
Currently there are rumours of further A-mount cameras coming so let's hope that at least one is a compact format ( with IBIS !)
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straylightrun
Senior Member
You are aware that if Sony did implement IBIS, not only would it attract and adopt more future Sony users (which would work in your favour) but you would also be able to... turn it off? Sounds like from your comprehensive list you're just trying to just justify your purchase. It's not everyday you hear customers wanting less features for their products.
rishi o'
Senior Member
Not wanting IBIS is similar to me not wanting a mirror in my camera. Will Sony sell more A7r cameras if it included a mirror like the canon 5dII? Will more people want the A7r if it had IBIS and was bigger and heavier?
My post was more in response to many posts complaining that the a7r doesn't have IBIS. If people were complaining about the A7r not having a mirror, I'd write about why I don't want a mirror.
in other words I'd prefer to be without all these "goodies" and to save instead some 100 grams in weight from, say, 450 grams N7 mk-II to a mere 350-360 grams.
Why?? I never use them in the I-st place and do not intend to use them in the future. So, the simple camera - optimized for taking stills, and no frills
The rumored Nikon DF seems interesting, but I'm afraid it is going: [a] to be too big and heavy, for sure it won't allow me to use EF lenses through SA and SB adapters from Conurus, so the N7 mk-II will be quite a lot preferable,
jpr2
--
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
Why?? I never use them in the I-st place and do not intend to use them in the future. So, the simple camera - optimized for taking stills, and no frills
The rumored Nikon DF seems interesting, but I'm afraid it is going: [a] to be too big and heavy, for sure it won't allow me to use EF lenses through SA and SB adapters from Conurus, so the N7 mk-II will be quite a lot preferable,
jpr2
--
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
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rishi o'
Senior Member
in other words I'd prefer to be without all these "goodies" and to save instead some 100 grams in weight from, say, 450 grams N7 mk-II to a mere 350-360 grams.
Why?? I never use them in the I-st place and do not intend to use them in the future. So, the simple camera - optimized for taking stills, and no frills
The rumored Nikon DF seems interesting, but I'm afraid it is going: [a] to be too big and heavy, for sure it won't allow me to use EF lenses through SA and SB adapters from Conurus, so the N7 mk-II will be quite a lot preferable,
jpr2
SQLGuy
Forum Pro
Depends.For your information there are many thousands of Sony & ex-Minolta users who have between them millions of AF A-mount lenses & these lenses came into their own when first Minolta & later Sony provided A mount digital cameras which had IBIS , so NO they didn't make wrong purchases.
Yes they could buy a FF A99 if they could afford one & are prepared to carry around a large & heavy camera all day or they might consider an N7 or N7r as a more compact option but then they would hit a snag when they discover that Sony , in their wisdom , have left off the option of IBIS which they provided in all their DSLRs & SLTs up until now....
The answer , of course , is that they don't have to buy these new cameras & most probably won't.
Currently there are rumours of further A-mount cameras coming so let's hope that at least one is a compact format ( with IBIS !)
If they bought these lenses more than a couple of years ago, the odds are that the improvements in sensor sensitivity and noise handling have outpaced the benefits they got from IBIS in the bodies of the time anyway. So they're still not being blocked from taking the same photos now on a new non-IBIS body that they were able to take then.
That doesn't mean that an A7/A7R is the best choice for them. They may still want to look at an A77, A99, A78, but it does mean that the "I can't use my old lenses because I don't have IBIS" story holds even less water.
Personally I would prefer a lot of features that I don't use be missing from the camera, but then my perfect camera is just too small of a niche:
- I don't want built in flash, and it messes up the bodily integrity and aesthetics of the camera. It also steals valuable real-estate that could be dedicated to yet another dial.
- I don't wan't an AA filter for most of my shots, since there are no fine repeating lines in them anyway.
- I don't want a color filter array in my camera, I'd rather have more resolution for B&W photography.
- I don't want weather sealing if it going to screw up the tactile feel of the buttons.
- I don't want 100 icons mucking up the view in my LCD/EVF
- I don't an menu options that I never use, I want them to vanish leaving me only the options that I do sometimes change.
- I don't want any white balance options, or Art scenes, or Jpeg related settings since I shoot raw.
You can believe what you want to believe but the sales of these two new cameras will suffer because they can't fully utilise older lenses. This factor is made worse by the fact that so few FE lenses currently are available at launch . The various adapters handle focus very well with older lenses but image stabilisation is non-existent !
Sony will need to speed up lens production otherwise we are going to have a re-run of the situation that existed when the NEX 7 was launched - too few quality lenses in suitable FL ranges.
Sony will need to speed up lens production otherwise we are going to have a re-run of the situation that existed when the NEX 7 was launched - too few quality lenses in suitable FL ranges.
rishi o'
Senior Member
You've made good points. I like your taste as well But I also prefer the lenses to not have stabilization if it increases lens size and reduces quality. That's why i'm happy the zeiss primes don't have it.
What I want is a Full frame mirrorless no bigger than the A7r. Adding size to the body for something I would rarely use is a big negative to me. I understand you can turn off IBIS, but if you could technically add IBIS to such a small mount with such a big sensor, I'm pretty sure it would add significant size/weight. That's a huge negative for me. Huge. Making it DSLR sized would just take away it's advantage and I'd guess that being the reason Sony chose not to implement it. Kudos to them for not listening to people asking for IBIS without realizing the trade offs. My opinion is that they made the right decision.
Rishio
http://www.rishio.com
But I also prefer the lenses to not have stabilization if it increases lens size and reduces quality. That's why i'm happy the zeiss primes don't have it.What I want is a Full frame mirrorless no bigger than the A7r. Adding size to the body for something I would rarely use is a big negative to me. I understand you can turn off IBIS, but if you could technically add IBIS to such a small mount with such a big sensor, I'm pretty sure it would add significant size/weight. That's a huge negative for me. Huge. Making it DSLR sized would just take away it's advantage and I'd guess that being the reason Sony chose not to implement it. Kudos to them for not listening to people asking for IBIS without realizing the trade offs. My opinion is that they made the right decision.
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Rishio
http://www.rishio.com
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Most likely no: not as long as these cameras keep E-mount. The full Frame sensor is a very tight fit for E-mount, there is no room for displacement needed for IBIS.
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