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Nikon wasting time & resources on a BS retro camera

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DezM said:
DezM wrote:
DezM said:
Bajerunner wrote:
DezM said:
DezM wrote:

WTF (substitute the what for where) is the D400 or whatever you want to call it?!

http://nikonrumors.com/tag/nikon-retro-full-frame-camera/
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Over on the Pentax DSLR forum... ;-) Sorry Dez, I can 'feel' you are frustrated.... but the mischief in me could not resist... ;-)

Yup, oh dear.... I don't think they CAN release a *D400*, it will kill too many other sales...

Partly tongue in cheek, but actually...thinking about it, it will.

Simply would be too good a camera for them to release, based on the D300, just as the D700.

Deep breaths.... ;-)
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If that's what Nikon is thinking, their mindset is wrong. They would make a KILLING if they released a D400. Enough $ to recoup from the earthquake & resulting tsunamis.

I want new tech, not retro BS (Dpreview won't allow the full word here).

Sony has me looking in their direction. At least they are innovating and making the market look interesting.

--
Dez
http://dezsantana.com

sign.jpg
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>I want new tech, not retro BS (Dpreview won't allow the full word here).

>Sony has me looking in their direction.

+1
 
Rockwallaby said:
Rockwallaby wrote:

If a D400 is in the wind, then Nikon should grow some balls and tell us. If Nikon would just make a press release to confirm that they intend to offer a D300 replacement in the near future, it would generate some positive energy for their customers. If there is not going to be a D300 replacement, then just say it so that people can can get on with making decisions on what gear they want to get.

This forum post and others like it are evidence that people have lost confidence in the Nikon brand/management such that negativity is now surfacing. Negativity and talk of the benefits of other brands on a Nikon forum is not a good indicator. Erosion of sales potential for Nikon can be the only result.
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Why would Nikon make an announcement like this? I can think of at least 3 reasons why they should not:

1. They would be announcing their plans to the competition. Maybe nothing is lost in this, but maybe it is - I am not an insider so I don't know. But seems like not letting the competition know what you are doing is better.

2. You imply that people will lose confidence in Nikon, meaning they will switch systems? Where exactly will they go to get a D400 like body? I will tell you - no where. There is no D400 like body. And no, the K-3 is not it.

3. If they made this announcement it would cut into D7100 sales. Sh**ty thing to do - maybe, but still why would they do this and hurt sales?

Everyone sit tight. A D400 is coming. If a 7Dmkii is coming I am 100% sure a D400 is coming. Nikon will not give away this market to Canon. I know it is frustrating and you want your D400 now, but just relax. Canon shooters don't have a 7dmkii yet either and they are peeed too.
 
brownie314 said:
brownie314 wrote:
brownie314 said:
Rockwallaby wrote:

If a D400 is in the wind, then Nikon should grow some balls and tell us. If Nikon would just make a press release to confirm that they intend to offer a D300 replacement in the near future, it would generate some positive energy for their customers. If there is not going to be a D300 replacement, then just say it so that people can can get on with making decisions on what gear they want to get.

This forum post and others like it are evidence that people have lost confidence in the Nikon brand/management such that negativity is now surfacing. Negativity and talk of the benefits of other brands on a Nikon forum is not a good indicator. Erosion of sales potential for Nikon can be the only result.
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Why would Nikon make an announcement like this? I can think of at least 3 reasons why they should not:

1. They would be announcing their plans to the competition. Maybe nothing is lost in this, but maybe it is - I am not an insider so I don't know. But seems like not letting the competition know what you are doing is better.

2. You imply that people will lose confidence in Nikon, meaning they will switch systems? Where exactly will they go to get a D400 like body? I will tell you - no where. There is no D400 like body. And no, the K-3 is not it.

3. If they made this announcement it would cut into D7100 sales. Sh**ty thing to do - maybe, but still why would they do this and hurt sales?

Everyone sit tight. A D400 is coming. If a 7Dmkii is coming I am 100% sure a D400 is coming. Nikon will not give away this market to Canon. I know it is frustrating and you want your D400 now, but just relax. Canon shooters don't have a 7dmkii yet either and they are peeed too.
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Exactly. Cameras take time to make. Better the camera be a year "late" and perfect, than be a disaster like the D600.
 
DezM said:
DezM wrote: My D300 works for me & I like it but my patience is growing thin after this impending announcement of a "retro" SLR by Nikon.

--
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Yes indeed!
 
marike6 said:
marike6 wrote:

Why would you even want to be shooting an APS-C camera these days when the majority of photographers have moved on to FF?
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Pardon me for saying so but...

I think that that statement is a lot of bovine fecal matter!
 
Member said:
Patco wrote:
Member said:
n057 wrote:
Member said:
seahawk wrote:

Who would want such a camera:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/10/...campaign=Feed:+canonrumors/rss+(Canon+Rumors)

The DF on the other hand is hip, stylish and retro.
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It would be even more fantistic if they brought out a retro 8x10, complete with bellows.
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Or one of these with a sensor (not so good for action/sports, though):

f1d8d4f1f17b4cb1a45c289ec98035b0.jpg

http://www.fotoart.gr/photography/history/historyphotos/onephotoonestory/thelargestcamera.htm
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I prefer a little more "modern-retro" and compact.

With flash of course.



KodakInstamatic.jpg


And D124 isn't taken yet.
 
sportyaccordy said:
sportyaccordy wrote:
sportyaccordy said:
marike6 wrote:

Why would you even want to be shooting an APS-C camera these days when the majority of photographers have moved on to FF? Dramatically better low-light ability and better DOF control are two no-brainer reasons to use FF over APS-C.
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Should one choose a camera by picking one they need, or picking one everyone else is using that doesn't have what they need? All the new FF cameras have slow burst rates and of course heavier + more expensive glass- exactly what DezM DOESN'T want.
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If you shoot Nikon, you know that the glass for DX and FX is not dramatically different in size or price. Primes like the 28 f/1.8G, 50 f/1.8G or 85 f/1.8G are not heavy or expensive. DX UWA zooms are like the 12-24 f/4 are as expensive and as large as FF UWA zooms like the 18-35 3.5-5.6. Same for the 17-55 f2.8 and 24-70 f/2.8.

As far as weight, if the OP were concerned about weight, he'd likely look at one of the APS-C mirrorless cameras like the Fujifilm X cameras. But I'm guessing he prefers DSLR ergonomics and F-mount. But the differences in size and weight between FX and DX are minimal, and since many DX use FF lenses like the 70-200 f/2.8 VR and since many DX consumer and prosumer zooms can be as expensive as FX zooms, there are no dramatic difference in prices.
sportyaccordy said:
Stop projecting YOUR wants onto him.
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I'm not projecting anything on anyone, surely you are joking?

If you look at the OPs website there are very few, if any, images that he couldn't have made with 6 fps vs 8 fps. In fact there are very few sports/action/wildlife images at all, AFAIK. There are tons of wedding / event type images, engagement portraits and some nighttime cityscapes, all of which would benefit far more from the superior IQ of a FF DSLR than another APS-C DSLR.
sportyaccordy said:
As for the D400, it's true there is a hole in Nikon's lineup, but I am guessing there aren't enough DezM's to support such an endeavor.
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Only time will tell, but based on the OPs website, to get all worked up over an extra 2 fps vs the D7100 or buffer size is ludicrous. The D7100 is a class leading DX camera, and there is pretty much NOTHING you cannot do with a D7100 that you can with a D300s or K3.

If I were the OP, I'd either buy a D7100 and work around any perceived inadequacies he felt it had vs the D300s, or I'd stop messing around with APS-C DSLRs and buy a D610, a camera that will make the biggest improvement for the types of images he makes out of any of these cameras.

If a D400 is announced, it will easy to sell a lightly used D7100 or D610 on Ebay and purchase a D400, if he still felt he needed such a camera. I'm guessing that after he shoots with either camera, but in particular the D610, he won't want to let it out of his hands.
 
Phil_L said:
Phil_L wrote:
Phil_L said:
marike6 wrote:

Why would you even want to be shooting an APS-C camera these days when the majority of photographers have moved on to FF?
Click to expand...
Pardon me for saying so but...

I think that that statement is a lot of bovine fecal matter!
Click to expand...
You can say whatever you want, but I'm guessing you haven't even bothered looking at the OP's website. Go ahead an have a look.

For the types of wedding engagement images that the OP is doing, the majority of photographers ARE using FF DSLRs. The prosumer APS-C DSLR market is getting smaller year by year as FF sensors become more affordable. Nikon is a business first and foremost, and they see the direction the prosumer market is moving. Releasing a niche pro DX camera that is priced near the D610 may not make a whole lot of sense from a business perspective. As much as people here want such a camera, if you take time to look at the broader picture, perhaps you will understand Nikon's apparent thinking in moving it's prosumer line to FX.

A look at how far interest in the new prosumer Olympus EM1 has fallen after the announcement of the Sony A7 should tell you all you need to know about what many prosumers want and the direction the market is taking.
 
marike6 said:
marike6 wrote:
marike6 said:
Phil_L wrote:
marike6 said:
marike6 wrote:

Why would you even want to be shooting an APS-C camera these days when the majority of photographers have moved on to FF?
Click to expand...
Pardon me for saying so but...

I think that that statement is a lot of bovine fecal matter!
Click to expand...
You can say whatever you want, but I'm guessing you haven't even bothered looking at the OP's website. Go ahead an have a look.

For the types of wedding engagement images that the OP is doing, the majority of photographers ARE using FF DSLRs. The prosumer APS-C DSLR market is getting smaller year by year as FF sensors become more affordable. Nikon is a business first and foremost, and they see the direction the prosumer market is moving. Releasing a niche pro DX camera that is priced near the D610 may not make a whole lot of sense from a business perspective. As much as people here want such a camera, if you take time to look at the broader picture, perhaps you will understand Nikon's apparent thinking in moving it's prosumer line to FX.

A look at how far interest in the new prosumer Olympus EM1 has fallen after the announcement of the Sony A7 should tell you all you need to know about what many prosumers want and the direction the market is taking.
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If Nikon does not release a Nikon D400 (or fast reasonably priced FF to fill that need) next year, then I am pretty much forced to get a Canon 7D or 7D MK II. I'm holding off getting a FF until next year to see if it is going to be a Nikon or Canon FF I'm getting. And it depends on whether my fast camera (APS-C or FF) is a Nikon or Canon. :(

Is this a case of win the battle (to FF), lose the war (People switching because they got lost in the shuffle . . .)?
 
rufusm said:
rufusm wrote:

Hey Dez, why would you consider Sony when they don't have a 'D400' let alone even a D300? Are you considering the new Sony FF mirrorless?
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First of all, we don't know that the new Nikon won't feature new technology. There are reports that it might have a hybrid OVF/EVF, which would no doubt make it a much more pleasant camera to use than the Sony A7.

But it seems that the OP doesn't even get the contradictions in his praise for the Sony A7 and his negative bluster about the new Nikon DF, a camera that will likely match the Sony on features, IQ and new technology while mounting ALL of his Nikkors.

But Nikon is a business, and they understand that the prosumer market is moving at a steady pace to FF. It doesn't mean that they will stop making all DX camera, just at the prosumer or professional, up market level we may or may not see a "pro" DX body.

And unless there is some kind of sports, wildlife or birding work that the OP is not telling us about, I don't see why he absolutely would prefer a DX "pro" Nikon over a D7100 or D6100. I don't see any images on his website that would require 8 fps or super telephoto lenses via DX crop factor. He has mostly wedding, engagement and nighttime cityscape images that would benefit more from a camera like the D610 than from a hypothetical D400 with 8 fps. Besides that, the almost 2 stop high ISO advantage of a D610 over a D400 with the 24 mp Toshiba sensor would be a far greater advantage for sports/action than slightly higher fps or a slightly larger buffer. Faster shutter speeds and better DOF control of a D610 are of much greater value than slightly more frames per second that a D400 might offer.

Sony, Nikon and Canon recognize that the prosumer camera market is moving to FF. A perfect example: there were over 1000 comments here on DPR when the Olympus EM1 was announced. Now that the Sony A7 has been announced, hardly anybody is talking about the prosumer EM1 or the K3 for that matter. Heck, the majority of Pentax users have been jumping up and down screaming for Pentax to finally release a FF DSLR, and the K-3 was actually a let down for many.

The new Nikon DF may be a game changer for Nikon the way the Fujifilm X100 was for Fujifilm, for all we know. But calling the Nikon DF a "waste of time" before it is even announced is just silly.
 
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Retro appearance is not evil, in and of itself. It is what is inside that matters. We do not know that the retro camera will have hobbled performance, or whether there will be a DX version. I am patient, and optimistic. If the retro look is popular, it may trickle-down to DX.

Moreover, I am not so sure the teaser-video retro camera is a not a stage prop cobbled-together from old film bodies, in an effort at psychological corporate warfare, to prevent an exodus to Sony, while Nikon works desperately to actually make such a camera a reality. Of course, Nikon can do it; the FM3A was a labor of love, a retro-camera in its day, though not produced as a response to an outside threat.

--
I wear a badge and pistol, and, primarily with 7D cameras, with 10-22mm and 100mm Macro L lenses, shoot evidentiary images at night, which incorporates elements of portrait, macro, still life, landscape, architecture, PJ, and occasional action.
 
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seahawk said:
seahawk wrote:

Who would want such a camera:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/10/...campaign=Feed:+canonrumors/rss+(Canon+Rumors)

The DF on the other hand is hip, stylish and retro.
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What? Those specs are pretty much the perfect APS-C sports camera. 5D3 AF is spectacular, if the 7D2 has that, weather sealing, and 10-12fps, it will be a superb bargain pro sports machine, and a high-end youth sports parent's camera. Only a D400 could compete with this.

Edit - sarcasm meter was off this morning!
 
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marike6 said:
marike6 wrote:
marike6 said:
Phil_L wrote:
marike6 said:
marike6 wrote:

Why would you even want to be shooting an APS-C camera these days when the majority of photographers have moved on to FF?
Click to expand...
Pardon me for saying so but...

I think that that statement is a lot of bovine fecal matter!
Click to expand...
You can say whatever you want, but I'm guessing you haven't even bothered looking at the OP's website. Go ahead an have a look.

For the types of wedding engagement images that the OP is doing, the majority of photographers ARE using FF DSLRs. The prosumer APS-C DSLR market is getting smaller year by year as FF sensors become more affordable. Nikon is a business first and foremost, and they see the direction the prosumer market is moving. Releasing a niche pro DX camera that is priced near the D610 may not make a whole lot of sense from a business perspective. As much as people here want such a camera, if you take time to look at the broader picture, perhaps you will understand Nikon's apparent thinking in moving it's prosumer line to FX.

A look at how far interest in the new prosumer Olympus EM1 has fallen after the announcement of the Sony A7 should tell you all you need to know about what many prosumers want and the direction the market is taking.
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Well that may or may not be correct but...

the majority of photographers have not moved to FX.
 
marike6 said:
marike6 wrote:

Why would you even want to be shooting an APS-C camera these days when the majority of photographers have moved on to FF? Dramatically better low-light ability and better DOF control are two no-brainer reasons to use FF over APS-C.
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Here is why:
  • 200mm on FF is too often too short for field sports, and shooting with a longer f/5.6 lens isn't as good as shooting with a 70-200/2.8
  • If you want more than 200mm on FF without going to f/5.6, you are looking at either a teleconverter or a prime, neither of which is ideal.
  • Using a 70-200/2.8 on APS-C is great for youth field sports.
  • The DOF difference is there, but it is grossly over-hyped.
  • Higher end APS-C bodies have faster frame rate unless you go to a D4.
  • The latest APS-C bodies have quite decent high ISO performance.
I shoot a Canon 5D3, but only because the 7D2 doesn't exist. I will have some serious thinking to do if the 7D2 specs end up as predicted. I could sell my 5D3 and my 300/2.8, go back to using my 70-200/2.8II, buy the 7D2, get much faster fps and pocket a big wad of cash.
 
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Dez doesn't need FX. He can make great photos with a potato if he wanted to. :D
Let's wait and see what this here retro cam has to offer.
I'm sure we'll all be just as disappointed if they never released such a thing.
 
If you read my replies in this thread, you would understand why I don't want to go FF. Try that before accusing me of contradicting myself.

I know EXACTLY what I want and waiting for Nikon to deliver. Not some BS retro DF camera, D3000, 5000, 5300 etc.

I have no praise for the A7. I own a NEX-6 and like it. I like that Sony is innovating.
--
Dez
 
I'm not sure if that was for me or Dez but you sure are passionate about FF. I totally understand your pov, I don't shoot sports or bif, so of course FF would be my upgrade path but in my case it comes down to cost of bodies and glass to upgrade and with the DR and lowlight of the new crop sensors I'm pleased with the latest sensors. I like the APS-C form factor, it has served me well and it should continue.
marike6 said:
marike6 wrote:
marike6 said:
rufusm wrote:

Hey Dez, why would you consider Sony when they don't have a 'D400' let alone even a D300? Are you considering the new Sony FF mirrorless?
Click to expand...
First of all, we don't know that the new Nikon won't feature new technology. There are reports that it might have a hybrid OVF/EVF, which would no doubt make it a much more pleasant camera to use than the Sony A7.

But it seems that the OP doesn't even get the contradictions in his praise for the Sony A7 and his negative bluster about the new Nikon DF, a camera that will likely match the Sony on features, IQ and new technology while mounting ALL of his Nikkors.

But Nikon is a business, and they understand that the prosumer market is moving at a steady pace to FF. It doesn't mean that they will stop making all DX camera, just at the prosumer or professional, up market level we may or may not see a "pro" DX body.

And unless there is some kind of sports, wildlife or birding work that the OP is not telling us about, I don't see why he absolutely would prefer a DX "pro" Nikon over a D7100 or D6100. I don't see any images on his website that would require 8 fps or super telephoto lenses via DX crop factor. He has mostly wedding, engagement and nighttime cityscape images that would benefit more from a camera like the D610 than from a hypothetical D400 with 8 fps. Besides that, the almost 2 stop high ISO advantage of a D610 over a D400 with the 24 mp Toshiba sensor would be a far greater advantage for sports/action than slightly higher fps or a slightly larger buffer. Faster shutter speeds and better DOF control of a D610 are of much greater value than slightly more frames per second that a D400 might offer.

Sony, Nikon and Canon recognize that the prosumer camera market is moving to FF. A perfect example: there were over 1000 comments here on DPR when the Olympus EM1 was announced. Now that the Sony A7 has been announced, hardly anybody is talking about the prosumer EM1 or the K3 for that matter. Heck, the majority of Pentax users have been jumping up and down screaming for Pentax to finally release a FF DSLR, and the K-3 was actually a let down for many.

The new Nikon DF may be a game changer for Nikon the way the Fujifilm X100 was for Fujifilm, for all we know. But calling the Nikon DF a "waste of time" before it is even announced is just silly.
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