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Why would you even want to be shooting an APS-C camera these days when the majority of photographers have moved on to FF? Dramatically better low-light ability and better DOF control are two no-brainer reasons to use FF over APS-C.
greeboBrat
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Niche market for sure but one of my bad habits is re-enactment (admittedly, the group I'm with is soviet 1980s / early russian fed so a nikon fm is probably not the best choice), having a 1970s era looking body but modern D-SLR capability and f-mount lenses.
I swore after the D800, no more camera bodies (I have a D7000 and a D800) but now, I'm interested in what they'll bring out.
Regards
I swore after the D800, no more camera bodies (I have a D7000 and a D800) but now, I'm interested in what they'll bring out.
Regards
rhlpetrus
Forum Pro
Why then the D7100 isn't enough? I think you don't need the deeper buffer or heavier/larger body of the D300 line. The only thing the D7000/D7100 miss is speed and buffer. IQ is better, especially the D7000.DezM wrote:
Did you see the link Renato? Nikon released videos of what will probably be a retro styled camera called DF. Other camera makers are making retro bodies and Nikon thinks it should do the same. I find this strategy stupid. It's a waste of time and resources. Firs the "F" up the left AF issues on the D800. Then they had the oily sensor debacle in the D600. They screw all D600 owners by releasing a D610, devaluing the D600 and now this retro junk.
I met Joe McNally at the PDN Photo Plus Expo yesterday. I should have asked him.
As for FF, I want to keep the size & weight (both lenses & body) down. Same or lighter than the D300 is my preference as well as the price point.
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Dez
http://dezsantana.com
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Renato.
Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
dgc4rter
Leading Member
Nikon are (and, indeed, must) respond to that. Canikon's APS-C DSLRs are being seriously challenged by the likes of Sony, Olympus and Fujifilm Mirrorless systems which are giving equally as good IQ and AF performance to boot in a smaller, lighter package. The P&S Compact sector has been killed off by Smartphone technology. The only sector they still have a dominant hold on is with the Pro FX DSLRs and this is where Nikon will focus their attention. The "Retro" look is most definitely in (look at the huge success of the Fuji X100) and I'm fairly convinced that Nikon will have a winner with a FM2 styled FX DSLR.
A D400 would have too many competitors in today's market.
A D400 would have too many competitors in today's market.
DezM
Forum Pro
Actually, the D800 is bigger & heavier by a small amount but you didn't factor in heavier, more expensive FF lenses.David314 wrote:
The d300 and d800 are essentially the same size, the d800 weighs a couple of more ounces
i am not sure why you are hoping for a d400 if you want a smaller camera
the d800 is $2500 refurbished
it also works with dx lenses, you might be surprised by how much of the frame your zooms cover and even in dx mode it is a pretty good camera at 16 mpix and there is the 1.2 crop and that 5:4 crop can cut off those corners where a dx lens might vignette
if you want smaller and better base ISO, that sounds like a d7100
Here's a comparison: http://camerasize.com/compare/#188,290
I'm not interested in a D7100.
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Dez
http://dezsantana.com
DezM
Forum Pro
I own a Sony NEX-6 mirrorless which uses the same sensor as the D7000/D7100. I know of the IQ. It is very good. Part of the reason why I don't want it is because "I sort of have it" and I want the build & hardware controls of the D300.rhlpetrus wrote:
Why then the D7100 isn't enough? I think you don't need the deeper buffer or heavier/larger body of the D300 line. The only thing the D7000/D7100 miss is speed and buffer. IQ is better, especially the D7000.DezM wrote:
Did you see the link Renato? Nikon released videos of what will probably be a retro styled camera called DF. Other camera makers are making retro bodies and Nikon thinks it should do the same. I find this strategy stupid. It's a waste of time and resources. Firs the "F" up the left AF issues on the D800. Then they had the oily sensor debacle in the D600. They screw all D600 owners by releasing a D610, devaluing the D600 and now this retro junk.
I met Joe McNally at the PDN Photo Plus Expo yesterday. I should have asked him.
As for FF, I want to keep the size & weight (both lenses & body) down. Same or lighter than the D300 is my preference as well as the price point.
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Dez
http://dezsantana.com
I'm being patient Renato. My D300 works for me & I like it but my patience is growing thin after this impending announcement of a "retro" SLR by Nikon.
DezM
Forum Pro
DezM
Forum Pro
So Nikon should just throw in the towel?! I guess we all who are waiting, should too......
sportyaccordy
Forum Pro
Should one choose a camera by picking one they need, or picking one everyone else is using that doesn't have what they need? All the new FF cameras have slow burst rates and of course heavier + more expensive glass- exactly what DezM DOESN'T want. Stop projecting YOUR wants onto him.
As for the D400, it's true there is a hole in Nikon's lineup, but I am guessing there aren't enough DezM's to support such an endeavor.
Rockwallaby
Forum Enthusiast
If DX is dead, then how come Nikon has just introduced another DX to the market in the D5300?
And why is Sigma selling more high quality DX lenses, such as the 18-35 f1.8, than they can make at the moment?
There is a market for a pro DX type of camera, particularly for the action sports segment. The birding fraternity is another.
For many it is not just a matter of getting a FF body. If shooters are to maintain the current focal lengths then it is going to be a costly change for new longer focal length glass.
If DezM and I don't want to go FF then there must be hundreds of thousands of people in worldwide who share the same thought, both Nikon and Canon shooters. There is a Pro DX market with no camera that fits the bill at the moment. Hard to imagine that Nikon is ignoring it as there are many who for a long time have had cash ready to spend. Just not the right camera to spend it on. Manufacturers that play games with their loyal customers, hoping that they can convert DX users to FF when they don't want to will just end up loosing sales. I am not going to buy a new FF and in particular a niche FF. However I would buy 2 off D400 if they were available.
A niche, FF retro camera is something you do after you have satisfied the market with a product that customers actually want now!!
And why is Sigma selling more high quality DX lenses, such as the 18-35 f1.8, than they can make at the moment?
There is a market for a pro DX type of camera, particularly for the action sports segment. The birding fraternity is another.
For many it is not just a matter of getting a FF body. If shooters are to maintain the current focal lengths then it is going to be a costly change for new longer focal length glass.
If DezM and I don't want to go FF then there must be hundreds of thousands of people in worldwide who share the same thought, both Nikon and Canon shooters. There is a Pro DX market with no camera that fits the bill at the moment. Hard to imagine that Nikon is ignoring it as there are many who for a long time have had cash ready to spend. Just not the right camera to spend it on. Manufacturers that play games with their loyal customers, hoping that they can convert DX users to FF when they don't want to will just end up loosing sales. I am not going to buy a new FF and in particular a niche FF. However I would buy 2 off D400 if they were available.
A niche, FF retro camera is something you do after you have satisfied the market with a product that customers actually want now!!
k-3 has 24 mpix.
adhall
Forum Enthusiast
I'd guess that there won't be any D400 announcements (or structured leaks) until the DF buzz had died down. I think there's also a cat and mouse game going on with the 7Dii and D400.
sportyaccordy
Forum Pro
Hundreds of thousands is a gross exaggeration
TacticDesigns
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Like Renato, I was also puzzled why D7100 does not meet your needs. Until you explicitly mentioned above that your needs are somewhat being satisfied with lightweight Sony, and the fact that you are looking for a D300 like controls in a future body it was highly unclear. This is quite different for others who have been speaking on your behalf based on their own DX needs.DezM wrote:
I own a Sony NEX-6 mirrorless which uses the same sensor as the D7000/D7100. I know of the IQ. It is very good. Part of the reason why I don't want it is because "I sort of have it" and I want the build & hardware controls of the D300.rhlpetrus wrote:
Why then the D7100 isn't enough? I think you don't need the deeper buffer or heavier/larger body of the D300 line. The only thing the D7000/D7100 miss is speed and buffer. IQ is better, especially the D7000.DezM wrote:
Did you see the link Renato? Nikon released videos of what will probably be a retro styled camera called DF. Other camera makers are making retro bodies and Nikon thinks it should do the same. I find this strategy stupid. It's a waste of time and resources. Firs the "F" up the left AF issues on the D800. Then they had the oily sensor debacle in the D600. They screw all D600 owners by releasing a D610, devaluing the D600 and now this retro junk.
I met Joe McNally at the PDN Photo Plus Expo yesterday. I should have asked him.
As for FF, I want to keep the size & weight (both lenses & body) down. Same or lighter than the D300 is my preference as well as the price point.
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Dez
http://dezsantana.com
I'm being patient Renato. My D300 works for me & I like it but my patience is growing thin after this impending announcement of a "retro" SLR by Nikon.
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Dez
http://dezsantana.com
One question, what if D400 is a 900gm gorilla (75gm more than D300) and its controls are different from D300? Or what if it is just a D300 with 24mp at 2k?
My only peeve with Nikon is they are focusing heavily on dethroning Canon. Stupidly this is causing QA issues, and Canon to indirectly win since Canon are currently incapable of releasing a compelling 7DII product that matches current Nikon's DX sensors and robust Nikon AF. This is inturn causing frustration in the Nikon prosumer DX camp. But as a counter argument, Nikon has filled the gaps in the lenses and bodies that were often bought in anti-nikon debates, eg. 80-400mm lens.
As far as DH is concerned, why not? I seriously doubt that it is delaying D400 in any way. Slowness in future DSLR sales is bound to happen and Nikon has to focus on diversifying into niche areas where there could be potential revenue to sustain (just like the film days). I also strongly believe that pro-DX will not last beyond 2 generations, but by then what will happen to the current DX shooters that are staunchly anti-FX? I don't know.
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photoreddi
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You've presented a reasonable scenario from the photographer's standpoint based on the value of the gear, for you. But I see two problems with this.
First, either the thief/mugger is familiar with the value of the camera gear or he isn't. If he isn't, I have to assume that you're not using a small kit lens on the D300, and to the mugger (ignoring the larger, even more impressive D3s) it will look just as impressive and tempting as a D800, so the D300 should get the mugger's juices flowing as much as a D800 would.
Second, if the thief/mugger is familiar the value of Nikon's cameras, he'll be as likely to try to mug Dez whether he's carrying a D800 or the mythical D400, which probably would have his large 17-55mm f/2.8 Nikkor or another equally impressive lens mounted on it. And since Dez has survived this long with his D300/17-55mm, he's either more fearless than most of us or he's got enough street smarts to be able to handle dicey situations that might make some other photographers wish they had worn a diaper.
TacticDesigns
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If a D400 goes to market at around 2G or so . . . at 8-10FPS, big buffer and that nice sensor in the D7100 . . . it would be a lot of bang for the buck. Especially if you want the 8-10FPS for sports (like me) and the extra reach (like me) . . .Devendra wrote:
Like Renato, I was also puzzled why D7100 does not meet your needs. Until you explicitly mentioned above that your needs are somewhat being satisfied with lightweight Sony, and the fact that you are looking for a D300 like controls in a future body it was highly unclear. This is quite different for others who have been speaking on your behalf based on their own DX needs.DezM wrote:
I own a Sony NEX-6 mirrorless which uses the same sensor as the D7000/D7100. I know of the IQ. It is very good. Part of the reason why I don't want it is because "I sort of have it" and I want the build & hardware controls of the D300.rhlpetrus wrote:
Why then the D7100 isn't enough? I think you don't need the deeper buffer or heavier/larger body of the D300 line. The only thing the D7000/D7100 miss is speed and buffer. IQ is better, especially the D7000.DezM wrote:
Did you see the link Renato? Nikon released videos of what will probably be a retro styled camera called DF. Other camera makers are making retro bodies and Nikon thinks it should do the same. I find this strategy stupid. It's a waste of time and resources. Firs the "F" up the left AF issues on the D800. Then they had the oily sensor debacle in the D600. They screw all D600 owners by releasing a D610, devaluing the D600 and now this retro junk.
I met Joe McNally at the PDN Photo Plus Expo yesterday. I should have asked him.
As for FF, I want to keep the size & weight (both lenses & body) down. Same or lighter than the D300 is my preference as well as the price point.
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Dez
http://dezsantana.com
I'm being patient Renato. My D300 works for me & I like it but my patience is growing thin after this impending announcement of a "retro" SLR by Nikon.
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Dez
http://dezsantana.com
One question, what if D400 is a 900gm gorilla (75gm more than D300) and its controls are different from D300? Or what if it is just a D300 with 24mp at 2k?
My only peeve with Nikon is they are focusing heavily on dethroning Canon. Stupidly this is causing QA issues, and Canon to indirectly win since Canon are currently incapable of releasing a compelling 7DII product that matches current Nikon's DX sensors and robust Nikon AF. This is inturn causing frustration in the Nikon prosumer DX camp. But as a counter argument, Nikon has filled the gaps in the lenses and bodies that were often bought in anti-nikon debates, eg. 80-400mm lens.
As far as DH is concerned, why not? I seriously doubt that it is delaying D400 is any way. Slowness in future DSLR sales is bound to happen and Nikon has to focus on diversifying into areas where there could be potential revenue to sustain. I also strongly believe that pro-DX will not last beyond 2 generations, but by then what will happen to the current DX shooters that are staunchly anti-FX? I don't know.
I would buy one. In fact . . . I've got the cash sitting and waiting . . .
For the shot that someone's asked me to do that I want to approach with fast FPS . . . I'm going to see if I can borrow my buddy's Canon 7D to get those shots . . . and then go back to waiting for the D400 . . .
As I mentioned below . . . if Nikon releases a FF at 8-10 FPS (and big buffer) with both the 1.5 crop mode and the additional 1.3 crop mode for around 3G . . . that would be the FF I would get over a D400. I would have to scrape a few more pennies together for it . . . but it would be like getting 2 cameras in one based on the models that are out there now . . .
NOTE: This market research is based on a sampling of one.
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My Personal Flickr Favs . . .
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tacticdesigns/sets/72157631300869284/
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TFergus
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I couldn't agree more.
I can't imagine what their plan is by not releasing the D400 by now. And while I used to give Nikon the benefit of the doubt on their reasons for the delay, I am starting to lose trust in them.
If they've discontinued the Pro-DX line and screw us over by saying the D7xxx line is the replacement, they should at least make some sort of official statement.
Rockwallaby
Forum Enthusiast
Yes, I agree, I got carried away and was a bit over the top but I am sure that there are significant numbers of other D300 users who would look to upgrade. Way more than just us noisy ones here.
I wonder what the total number of sales for the D300/D300S were?
I wonder what the total number of sales for the D300/D300S were?
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