MisterHairy
Senior Member
I just hope you take more care with your togging.
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So, about that new 58mm f/1.4...
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photoreddi
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My old 60mm f/2.8 AF Micro Nikkor has a similarly deeply recessed front element. I don't know if the new 58mm f/1.4 Nikkor extends or not but the 60mm f/2.8 extends enough that the front element passes the front of the outer lens barrel and is protected only because two of the inner lens barrel cones extend with it. It's not particularly large but its weight (just over 16 oz, 460g with front and rear lens caps, 440g without) is substantial. Nikon's current 50mm lenses, including G and D versions, f/1.4 and f/1.8 weigh 5.5, 6.6, 8.1 and 9.9 oz.paulski66 wrote:
I'm not asking why the body is so wide; I'm asking why the front element is so recessed.brightcolours wrote:
Wider body allows bigger AF motor. Wider body also allows for recessed front element and resulting "built in hood". Also, it makes the lens more meaty, so it appears to match its price better.
Since it's a rear-focus design, I can't imagine any of the focusing mechanism extends that far forward.
The "built-in hood" argument would make more sense on a wider lens, like the 28mm f/1.8, than it does on a 58mm lens. But the front element of the 28mm f/1.8 isn't recessed at all. Neither is the 24mm 1.4.
The 60mm Micro Nikkor has a DoF scale, distance scale, M/A ring, aperture ring and a FULL/LIMIT switch. I have a feeling that the 58mm's recessed lens is to guarantee that photos have a somewhat effective lens hood, insuring that photos are protected from the effects of flare/veiling glare that even a very good lens without a hood might produce. If the lens does extend as it's focused closer, I doubt that it would be nearly as great as the Micro lens's maximum extension.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/66987-USA/
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http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/219-micro-nikkor-af-60mm-f28-d-review--test-report
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I dress myself fine on special occasions...oh wait, you being hip and using a word found in the urban dictionary... So, yes - I take plenty of care with my photography ( though I'm just a hobbyist). I trust you take care with your "togging" as well. In any event, I just don't waste time scaling images when it's not really necessary to illustrate the intended point - that's all.
Yorkshireman
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The Nikon 105mm DC and 135mm DC both use a 72mm filter thread, and, as far as I am aware, the productin has not been stopped.
Yorkshireman
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Interesting point. However, according to the "bigger is better" logic, the 58mm lens is too small and should have a 82mm filter thread, on the basis that it needs to be bigger than the Sigma 50mm F1.4, which has a 77mm filter thread.
I don't get it. People are already bashing or praising the lens without ever using it. Give it a rest.
The question becomes is are you willing to pay a lot more for a lens that offers better performance. If you are into primes a lot maybe its worth it .
All of the angst about its weight or size astound me. My 24mm F1.4 or my Sigma 35mm F1.4 are big and heavy for a prime but I didn't hear the massive outcry.
Maybe with some of Sigmas initial successes with the ART series maybe they will issue more fast primes. I also question how many 58mm F1.4 will be sold.
Hopefully calmer heads will prevail and people will actually try the lens before criticizing it.
The question becomes is are you willing to pay a lot more for a lens that offers better performance. If you are into primes a lot maybe its worth it .
All of the angst about its weight or size astound me. My 24mm F1.4 or my Sigma 35mm F1.4 are big and heavy for a prime but I didn't hear the massive outcry.
Maybe with some of Sigmas initial successes with the ART series maybe they will issue more fast primes. I also question how many 58mm F1.4 will be sold.
Hopefully calmer heads will prevail and people will actually try the lens before criticizing it.
MisterHairy
Senior Member
I am not certain that saying that a lens is "built up" to fit alongside its premium siblings is criticising it. I hope that it is awesome; Nikon has certainly been lagging behind in the normal prime department. Hopefully, this will fix that.
It's not my own preferred FL, but I don't think that Nikon make lenses just for me, so I am sure that it has its market.
It's not my own preferred FL, but I don't think that Nikon make lenses just for me, so I am sure that it has its market.
I just asked a simple question.
I'm hoping it's a phenomenal lens, though it will always probably be too steep an asking price for me. But who knows, right?
marco1974
Senior Member
There is no reason to assume that it will be any different in build style/quality than the AF-S 85/1.4G and AF-S 24/1.4G, both of which I owned. Hence my comment.
Marco
Marco
Leonard Shepherd
Forum Pro
You first sentence implies you do not understand I was discussing optical and digital vignetting, NOT mechanical vignetting.
Nikon lenses do not mechanically vignette
Your second sentence implies you do not know the longer the lens shade effect (with and without a hood) the better the contrast (higher resolution) - which can be important for a lens described as good for shooting point light sources at night.
Your words "just a comment that the lens is boosted in size artificially to promote a greater sense of worth" implies you are not aware the recent 50mm f1.4 G front element is much more deeply recessed than the 50mm f1.4 D, and the 50m f1.8 G is very deeply recessed, as was the 50mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.8 D.
Nikon has been making 50 mm lenses with deeply recessed front elements since at least 1978. While you are entitled to your opinion - will many rate it worth as much as 1 out of 10 for credibility?
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Leonard Shepherd
Many problems turn out to be a lack of intimate knowledge as to how to get the best out of modern and often complex camera equipment.
Leonard Shepherd
Forum Pro
How do you know?
They are created using industry standard electronic testing which eliminates a human judgement factor - making it difficult to manipulate the result.
I do not disagree MTF has a limited direct relevance to photography - but that also applies to any analysis based on photographing a 1000:1 contrast chart at around head and should image size.
The "advantage" of MTF is it indicates what a lens can deliver independent of the effect of attaching a camera body - quite useful when current Nikon digital bodies range from 12 to 36 MP.
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Leonard Shepherd
Many problems turn out to be a lack of intimate knowledge as to how to get the best out of modern and often complex camera equipment.
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MisterHairy
Senior Member
Leonard, Leonard, Leonard. It took you ever such a long time to think up that one, didn't it?Leonard Shepherd wrote:
You first sentence implies you do not understand I was discussing optical and digital vignetting, NOT mechanical vignetting.
Nikon lenses do not mechanically vignette
Your second sentence implies you do not know the longer the lens shade effect (with and without a hood) the better the contrast (higher resolution) - which can be important for a lens described as good for shooting point light sources at night.
Your words "just a comment that the lens is boosted in size artificially to promote a greater sense of worth" implies you are not aware the recent 50mm f1.4 G front element is much more deeply recessed than the 50mm f1.4 D, and the 50m f1.8 G is very deeply recessed, as was the 50mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.8 D.
Nikon has been making 50 mm lenses with deeply recessed front elements since at least 1978. While you are entitled to your opinion - will many rate it worth as much as 1 out of 10 for credibility?
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Leonard Shepherd
Many problems turn out to be a lack of intimate knowledge as to how to get the best out of modern and often complex camera equipment.
Please would you be so kind as to explain to me, with diagrams if you would not mind, just how it is that the extended cone on the front of the 58mm lens will reduce optical or digital (hah!) vignetting. Then, as part of that, please demonstrate just how it is that truncating that cone, even on a plane which is not perpendicular to the optical axis, will worsen either of those two effects.
I am perfectly aware of the benefits of the provided lens hood and I do not feel that recessing the front element should be considered a replacement for a lens hood and nor should you. If that is what you are implying then I feel that it is you who may have missed the point. The shape of the 58mm lens' hood is interesting; I believe that it is the only Nikon hood for a normal prime lens with the petal shape, which implies that the overall extension is such that to leave the corners shaded at that length would have introduced mechanical vignetting. Maybe this lens is more prone to flare than its non-coated cousins.
As an owner of the 50/1.4G and previously the 50/1.4D and an older 50/1.8 (non D) as well as previously the AI-S 1.2, I am well aware of the physical differences between them. I would not say, when both 1.4 lenses are used with a lens hood, that the 50/1.4G offers any contrast improvement over the D version, in spite of its greater front recess. In fact, it may even be the other way 'round. Have you personal experience of both these lenses or are you just hypothesising here?
The 1.2, with almost no front recess gave the best overall contrast when used with a (rubbish rubber) hood.
I am sure that you feel that you are on to something here, but I hope that you have not spent long coming up with your conclusions because you are off target, I am afraid. You are talking your typical brand of bunkum.
Oh, and by the way, when attempting to talk down to someone, no amount of smileys will make it OK. Particularly if you are not bright enough to do it effectively. Understand?
[edit: and contrast <> resolution. Honestly, I despair.]
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MisterHairy
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